Who thinks the MS3 needs a diet?

[2.0t03speed]

Did i hear that Andrew wants some fd's =). Come and get them so i can buy my ftc so i can throw in my 550's and turn up the boost

 

[ericrapp]

do not forget the rotational mass crap. Those fifteen pound Enkei UDNJ are nice too

 

[daonly1around]

Did i hear that Andrew wants some fd's =). Come and get them so i can buy my ftc so i can throw in my 550's and turn up the boost

you know i want them, might be able to afford them sooner than later, but i don't think i want to mod the ms3 for a while

 

[blackdragon0731]

i've taken on a modded and lowered 350z and held my own, even surpassed him at higher speeds, that car would easily best an ms3 if it had some weight reduction but it seems to me like its a very heavy car for its size, although it packs some power for sure... i agree with keeping the hood stock though, torque steer can really disorient you if you aren't ready for it, especially if you add fuel to the fire by taking some of the weight away from the front that helps minimize it in the first place, mazda did a great job minimizing that torque steer for sure as its only reared its head a few times notably when i push my car to its limits, id rather add weight reduction through small things like the sway bars and battery as all you guys have been saying, but thats just me

 

[arkenzo]

Geez, lightweight? This thing is light enough as it is, cat scaled at 3058lbs, I think a 2900lb ms3 would be insane!

 

[gtlaw]

Geez, lightweight? This thing is light enough as it is, cat scaled at 3058lbs, I think a 2900lb ms3 would be insane!

I would like it to be even less.. my sentra weighs 2,400 and has 250 hp/250Tq at the wheels

 

[ericrapp]

Add lightness. I believe this has been Lotus' strategy and appears to work. Even better for handling. The kind of responsiveness a track car would appreciate. If your are a daily driver it is more than good as is. But the hot rodders and racers are always looking for a little bit more performance. weight savings can be a friend In my humble opinion. And gtlaw I would bet you will have a good length on a stock Mazdaspeed3 at the 1/4 track!

 

[arkenzo]

I would like it to be even less.. my sentra weighs 2,400 and has 250 hp/250Tq at the wheels

What sentra is that?

 

[ericrapp]

I Do... heres what i had in mind

tasteful light weight racing seats, (also will allow you to keep stock seats in great shape during storage)

CF hood, painted to match IMO

16X8 FD wheels,(for track purposes)

Take rear seats out (ditto on track purposes)

Lose crappy stock sub, replace with better aftermarket sub and box that can be taken out when at the track.

opinions please

How much do you think the spare and tools, jack, might weigh?

 

[CnoTataymo]

I believe someone on her said the spare/jack/tools weigh around 30-35lbs.

I'd like the MS3 to weigh around 2800 lbs. That's about average for the common sport compact nowadays.

 

[ericrapp]

Boy thats anice number. my Dodge neon r/t weighed that and always felt that car out handled the my Mazda. Of course the neon was lucky to hit 135 with the wind at its back. So back seats, sway bars, full exhaust, wheels negated by more tire, jack and tools, hmm and what else to drop some lbs?. Maybe we can lose 100. maybe

 

[xtrememps]

can you take him in a race or on the track???

I came from an 05 350z that was heavily modded. But the comparison between the 2 cars would be somethign I'd like to know to see if its capable of taking a 350z say in a straight line race or even on the track.

The Z handled pretty damn well. at times it felt faster probably due to how lous it was and being lowered very low i could hear and feel the ground and the car's power more so maybe that was why it felt faster at times.

Can't beat the turbo sound of the ms3 tho, lovin it!

No he's a bit quicker theoretically although we haven't lined up or anything. He has an '08 though so he's pushing more HP.

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

I actually like the weight and can see why it weighs more

I Do... heres what i had in mind

tasteful light weight racing seats, (also will allow you to keep stock seats in great shape during storage)

CF hood, painted to match IMO

16X8 FD wheels,(for track purposes)

Take rear seats out (ditto on track purposes)

Lose crappy stock sub, replace with better aftermarket sub and box that can be taken out when at the track.

opinions please

I think at it's price the MS3 is dealing with some design limitations as well as safety considerations when it comes to weight.

- Keep things planted- gravity is a good thing at high speeds
- Allow body to deal with added torque (chassis flex etc) for long-term reliability and chassis integrity.
- Crash worthiness
- At the MS3's price point the chassis designers probably used less high strength steel (higher strength but lower weight caompared to standard Steel grades)) in non-essential areas due to cost. High Strength steel is used at key collision points due to it's ability to deform less under impact. This is one of the areas I believe makes pricier lines more expensive. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus user more high strength steel opposed to less expensive steel alloys.

JMT

 

[Capt Crunch]

i actually really like having the weight...keeps this s*** on the ground.
also, the hood weighs a lot to prevent more torque steer

(lol)

 

[leadf00t]

In this comparison the new cobalt ss is 2 tenths quicker in the 1/4 then the Speed3, but you'll notice that it weighs 150lbs less. I'd love to shed a little weight off of the car myself, but the cost of 150lbs seems like a lot for 2 tenths unless your competing on a regular basis.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/1108_turbos_comparisonchart.pdf

 

[F430TECH]

Back seats, Spare tire and Jack, all floormats, back hatch cover, passenger seat, any dress up plastics under the hood....Lighter lug nuts (5-6lbs rotating mass)

Take all that out and you will be looking at about 100lbs maybe more. I wonder how many people take out their tire and jack on Quarter mile runs?? Its a lot of weight. There are a couple of guys close to thirteens stock. I bet i they don't take the tire and jack out that would make the difference.

 

[F430TECH]

I wonder if there's enough space under the jack on the left side to mount a small Odyssey battery. It would relocate the weight to the rear, shave off 20-30 lbs., and keep it hidden.

Odyssey? Or this?

http://braillebattery.com/index.php/batteries/b2015_limited_edition/

They make some nice damn stuff we use them in the Formula Mazda's. The battery is in the front nosecone so this takes a lot of weight out of the front which improves turn in, easier on the brakes etc etc...

 

[F430TECH]

Lets not forget that the hood is designed to absorb a head-on impact. Carbon fiber hoods are nice, but what happens when you smack into something? They shatter and provide no impact absorbsion what-so-ever. I'm not willing to sacrifice safety to save 50lb. Aluminum would have been nice. I've had both a Miata and a S2000, which both had aluminum hoods and you could lift them with your index finger without a problem, but the hoods are obviously designed to crumple in a certain way whether they're steel or aluminum.

Uhm Carbon Fiber is designed to disintegrate and dissipate the energy of an impact during a collision taking energy away that would normally be transferred to a driver thats WHY it shatters. When its made properly the layers are laid a specific way that gives them the greatest strength to weight ratio. They are also designed to crumple in a specific manner. I dont know a single modern racecar that doesn't have all its doors, door panels, hood, engine cover, safety cell in Formula Cars, made out of Carbon Fiber. A kid whose car I used to work on backed his Pro Formula Mazda into the wall at 160mph, it was a carbon fibre tub, the car was demolished ($15,000 for the new tub alone) but the kid walked away. The Tub cracked and crumpled but the interior of it directly around him never deformed. A metal chassis at that speed no matter how strong would have tranferred the impact TO the driver AND probably twisted and crumpled around him trapping him in the car.

Just thought you should know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2H_leY_Q8k

F1 nosecone crash test.

 

[nhluhr]

Uhm Carbon Fiber is designed to disintegrate and dissipate the energy of an impact during a collision taking energy away that would normally be transferred to a driver thats WHY it shatters. When its made properly the layers are laid a specific way that gives them the greatest strength to weight ratio. They are also designed to crumple in a specific manner. I dont know a single modern racecar that doesn't have all its doors, door panels, hood, engine cover, safety cell in Formula Cars, made out of Carbon Fiber. A kid whose car I used to work on backed his Pro Formula Mazda into the wall at 160mph, it was a carbon fibre tub, the car was demolished ($15,000 for the new tub alone) but the kid walked away. The Tub cracked and crumpled but the interior of it directly around him never deformed. A metal chassis at that speed no matter how strong would have tranferred the impact TO the driver AND probably twisted and crumpled around him trapping him in the car.

Just thought you should know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2H_leY_Q8k

F1 nosecone crash test.

just to clarify your opening sentence... carbon fiber parts CAN BE designed to work beneficially. unfortunately, most aftermarket manufacturers have neither the capability nor the research prowess to come close to that goal and you end up with a merely good-looking and relatively lightweight hood which doesn't perform anywhere close to something that is truly engineered.

Carbon fiber replacement hoods for consumer cars are not even in the same realm as engineered carbon parts for formula cars, or even those manufactured by large OEMs.

 

[F430TECH]

just to clarify your opening sentence... carbon fiber parts CAN BE designed to work beneficially. unfortunately, most aftermarket manufacturers have neither the capability nor the research prowess to come close to that goal and you end up with a merely good-looking and relatively lightweight hood which doesn't perform anywhere close to something that is truly engineered.

Carbon fiber replacement hoods for consumer cars are not even in the same realm as engineered carbon parts for formula cars, or even those manufactured by large OEMs.

How many Carbon Fiber parts have you made exactly?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYqCuWQ9rEI

Thats me making a carbon fiber intake trumpet for the FSAE Car...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efC900oG67k

Thats my 3-D Inventor Model of what the finished product looked like....

I know that the intake trumpet that I made with three layers of Carbon and West System Epoxy, about 1.5mm thick after vacuum curing could take my weight pretty easily (230lbs). I bet if I stood on a piece of steel or aluminum that thin in the same shape it would crumple like a paper bag. Thats how I show people its strength I put it on its side and stand on it.

You know the difference in Tensile or Compressive Strength between Carbon Fiber and Steel? Or Aluminum?

I know that the Carbon Fiber Hoods on the F430 GT racecar are similar in construction but weigh less then aftermarket hoods as they generally use LESS carbon. I think you would be surprised. Most aftermarket hoods these days retain the underside of the factory OEM hoods. If you dont think these companies don't have any research or engineering prowess then I suggest you try making a carbon fiber hood and see how it turns out? They have to make them strong enough to last yet light enough to be worth the money?

I think most companies strive for at least SOME quality and in general I would have to say that a Carbon Fibre hood would always dissipate energy better than a steel or aluminum one just because of the properties.

Of course some companies use fibreglass covered with Carbon, but I guess whether you get a true carbon hood or not depends how much research you do....