wheel lift dependant on driving style?

[chris1866]

I've been wondering about this for some time now.
I've seen pictures of (DS) MSPs lifting a wheel on the autox course all the time. I would think that once i got rcomps, i would do the same, but this was not the case. Is it dependant on driving style or some other factors. I'm not used to the Hoosiers yet so could it be that i am not maximizing their potential or does it have more to do with the MSP chasis?

Just curious.

 

[apexlater]

In a stock car. Driving style has some to do with it. The stiff front bar and chassis has alot to do with it. Trailbraking does it, lift throttle transitions do it...

I vote for your driving style.

 

[low_psi]

Its a combination of front roll stiffness and driving technique. The rear can come up on street tires if you want it to.

 

[Vanimaniac]

Another possible factor could be surface. I'd bet grippy concrete is a lot more conducive to wheel lift than slippery asphalt.

Are you sure you didn't lift your wheel? Video perhaps or someone watching?

I'm running an HS Mirage this season on SUPERSOFT stock suspension right now. That with rcomps (albeit old and out of date rcomps), I would swear I'm lifting a tire with the amount of lean I got. But check out this video from this past Sunday. No matter how much l rocked and rolled, my tires stayed put. I guess that's a good thing? Definitely made for an exciting ride.

Hey at least I won HS! (alright)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIC_kQR7qc8

Van

 

[susamafone]

Its a combination of front roll stiffness and driving technique. The rear can come up on street tires if you want it to.

yep, it sure can on street tires. this was from an auto-x this past sunday. my mods are in my sig, and im still running the stock p5 dunflops. definately depends on driving style. this particular course was covered with loose rocks. i was sliding all over the place, but looks like i was able to get some grip.

seems its also possible to bring the front off the ground too. got pretty close here:

anyone know if it is possible to lift the inside front on a front wheel drive car?

 

[aMaff]

that seems doubtful. You'd need a huge front sway bar, and you wouldn't put any power to the ground.

Speaking of huge swaybar: apexlater

 

[Knox Joe]

anyone know if it is possible to lift the inside front on a front wheel drive car?

Yup, on the right mountain road it will (it's funny when that wheel touches down), but on a mostly flat surface I doubt it.

 

[chris1866]

Well i've seen pictures where i've almost lifted on street Toyo T1r's but nada on Rcomps.

But as far as driving style--I typically do not trailbrake, and this being my first time on rcomps, i decided not to. Come to think of it, there wasn't really a point on this course where i could see it being advantageous.

thanks for the info.

I'll see if i can post some pics from the event in the Awesome autocross pics thread but i = teh suck at the internet so it never works....

 

[xelderx]

Yup, on the right mountain road it will (it's funny when that wheel touches down), but on a mostly flat surface I doubt it.

Yep. I lift my inside front coming out of Gravity Cavity, Deals Gap on street tires, but that has more to do with the shape of the road than anything else.

 

[Knox Joe]

Yep. I lift my inside front coming out of Gravity Cavity, Deals Gap on street tires, but that has more to do with the shape of the road than anything else.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

On some of my backroads near my house I can get all four to come off the ground!!!!!(first)

 

[low_psi]

No matter how much l rocked and rolled, my tires stayed put. I guess that's a good thing?

You want the inside rear to lift up at corner entry and mid-corner.

 

[apexlater]

You want the inside rear to lift up at corner entry and mid-corner.

I dunno, I think I'd rather have all four wheels doing their part instead of floating around in the air. Now, alot has to do with chassis rigidity, tires, suspension, etc., but anytime a wheel is in the air you are asking the other corresponding tire to do all the work.

Sure, it's photogenic, but not ideal.

 

[aMaff]

Then maybe you should swap out your front sway bar, Mr. I-roll-on-3-wheels

 

[apexlater]

In a stock class car there is only so much you can do. The ginormous front bar helps to keep the rear wheel spin down and allows for faster transitions, with the downside of running the front inside wheel 8" off the ground.

I would think with a proper coilover kit and some much smaller sway bars front and rear I could control the lift. We'll see.

 

[aMaff]

Will we now? Coilovers huh?

 

[low_psi]

I dunno, I think I'd rather have all four wheels doing their part instead of floating around in the air. Now, alot has to do with chassis rigidity, tires, suspension, etc., but anytime a wheel is in the air you are asking the other corresponding tire to do all the work.

Sure, it's photogenic, but not ideal.

Sorry, I'm talking about only front wheel drive cars, should have clarified that. The rear wheels are just being drug around so any weight on the rear inside tire can be put on the outside tires. So as you enter a turn, the RI lifts and allows the car to rotate. It doesn't need to be 6" in the air, just slightly off the surface.

 

[671_p5]

I dunno, I think I'd rather have all four wheels doing their part instead of floating around in the air. Now, alot has to do with chassis rigidity, tires, suspension, etc., but anytime a wheel is in the air you are asking the other corresponding tire to do all the work.

Sure, it's photogenic, but not ideal.

Gotta agree with you there. 4 tires > 3 I think anytime the rear slides even on a front wheel drive it causes some stress on the front tire resulting in less total power to the ground. But I think sliding helps on rare occassions lik a really really tight course where you can go straight through a set of offset gates if you can point your car right through by sliding the rear.

 

[low_psi]

The rear does not start to slide just because the RI is unloaded, you also have to overload the RO tire. I'm not suggesting this. When the RI tire is loaded its creating anti-yaw effects, preventing the rear to rotate with the front of the car. When the RI's weight is shifted to the outside tires the load on them does increase, but that can be controlled with camber.

The outside rear is less likely to "wash out" before the outside front due to weight transfer/distribution. Using 3 tires is not intuitive, but research FWD setups and even kart chassis tuning and you will find its proven to be faster.

 

[low_psi]

Bump for comments. This is appears to be a misunderstood part of FWD tuning here and I'd liek to see more discussion.

 

[Gasological]

Totally off topic, but I somehow feel that running on three wheels would scare the piss out of me. Then again, the last time i was on three, then two, then none, it wasn't a pleasant experience.