What kind of Boost Levels are MS3 owners seeing?

[jeffmsp]

why would yu need to upgrade the wastegate, just tune the ecu to hold boost til redline. If its tuned to and it cant then I would look if it has expanding stock intercooler pipes and other issues. what Does the MS3 have as a boost measuring device that it reads from to make boost corrections?

 

[Speedy3]

Can you tell me which real-time sensor readings the Auterra can access on the MS3? I am considering purchasing one and would like to know what I am getting.

Calculated engine load value
Engine coolant temperature
Short term fuel % trimBank 1
Long term fuel % trimBank 1
Intake manifold pressure
Engine RPM
Vehicle speed
Timing advance
Intake air temperature
MAF air flow rate
Throttle position
Bank 1, Sensor 2:Oxygen sensor voltage, Short term fuel trim
Run time since engine start
Fuel Rail Pressure
Commanded EGR
Commanded evaporative purge
Barometric pressure
O2 Snsr B1-S1 Wide Range ma
Catalyst Temperature Bank 1, Sensor 1
Control module voltage
Absolute load value
Command equivalence ratio
Relative throttle position
Ambient air temperature
Absolute throttle position B
Accelerator pedal position D
Accelerator pedal position E
Commanded throttle actuator

And about 5 others that I haven't needed yet.

 

[Speedy3]

flat shift? what is that? power shift? how do u do that? i jstu chagne gears really fast..........is it jsut clutch work?

Keep the throttle on while shifting.

Wikipedia:
Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or cluthchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to increase acceleration.

This involves rapidly disengaging the clutch while keeping the accelerator to the floor, shifting, and then rapidly engaging the clutch. The whole movement should be under half a second.

Contrary to popular belief, this does not put very much strain on the transmission, most of the stress is absorbed by the clutch and the rear differential, one of the reasons manual transmission cars break the differential more often than automatics.

BTW, the clutch in the MS3 is apparently designed for this. As a quote from Car and Driver, Nov 2006 "Calls to Mazda yielded tips: Pop the clutch at 2900 rpm, upshift at 6000 redline is 6700 and flat-shift through second and third (which means dont lift at all the mechanical equivalent of dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts and violating our test procedure).

Dont worry, the engineers said, it wont break."

 

[Rotus8]

Calculated engine load value
...
And about 5 others that I haven't needed yet.

Awesome. Thanks. Ordered.
Now if I can only get my damn car, I can make some interesting experiments with real data.

 

[clos561]

Keep the throttle on while shifting.

Wikipedia:
Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or cluthchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to increase acceleration.

This involves rapidly disengaging the clutch while keeping the accelerator to the floor, shifting, and then rapidly engaging the clutch. The whole movement should be under half a second.

Contrary to popular belief, this does not put very much strain on the transmission, most of the stress is absorbed by the clutch and the rear differential, one of the reasons manual transmission cars break the differential more often than automatics.

BTW, the clutch in the MS3 is apparently designed for this. As a quote from Car and Driver, Nov 2006 "Calls to Mazda yielded tips: Pop the clutch at 2900 rpm, upshift at 6000 redline is 6700 and flat-shift through second and third (which means dont lift at all the mechanical equivalent of dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts and violating our test procedure).

Dont worry, the engineers said, it wont break."

ill try it but il proly **** up for a few tries

 

[Speedy3]

Awesome. Thanks. Ordered.
Now if I can only get my damn car, I can make some interesting experiments with real data.

Het Rotus8, it also does power/torque measurements (per Gear) and acceleration times. Look at this thread to see my power/torque runs:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123653857

Also, here is my latest acceleration run (0-60: 6.1 seconds):

The jagged curve up to about 40 MPH was tire slippage. I didn't flat-shift on this run; just traditional shifting. I should be able to pull 5.5-6 seconds with flat-shifting. Also, the SW will calculate your 1/8 mile time/speed and 1/4 mile time/speed, but i didn't go olong enough to give it the data to do the calculations.

 

[Speedy3]

ill try it but il proly **** up for a few tries

Just don't try the flat-shifting from 1st to 2nd, cause it is way too much energy for the clutch. Besides, this car has plenty of pull from 1st and second, you don't need the extra boost then. 2nd to 3rd is awesome when flat-shifting. It will smoke the tires a bit going into 3rd and toss you back in the seat pretty hard. Just remember, flat-shifting will give you much quicker turbo response, but at the cost of the life of your clutch! Also, make sure to turn off DSC when doing this and time the shift so that you don't exceed 6000 rpms during the shift. Wastegate tries to trigger around then, so you are loosing the bennefit. I try to shift from 2nd to 3rd around 5200-5500 rpms and do it quick.

Good luck!

 

[SeanMSIII]

Het Rotus8, it also does power/torque measurements (per Gear) and acceleration times. Look at this thread to see my power/torque runs:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123653857

Also, here is my latest acceleration run (0-60: 6.1 seconds):

The jagged curve up to about 40 MPH was tire slippage. I didn't flat-shift on this run; just traditional shifting. I should be able to pull 5.5-6 seconds with flat-shifting. Also, the SW will calculate your 1/8 mile time/speed and 1/4 mile time/speed, but i didn't go olong enough to give it the data to do the calculations.

Very nice times for not flat-shifting. Kinda looks like you know what you're doing. C&D shoulda let you run their 0-60 and 1/4 mile!

 

[Rotus8]

Het Rotus8, it also does power/torque measurements (per Gear) and acceleration times. Look at this thread to see my power/torque runs:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?t=123653857

I'm interested in including DBW throttle position, MAF readings WB O2 sensor readings in the graphs to evaluate shifting technique and mod effectivity.

 

[clos561]

Just don't try the flat-shifting from 1st to 2nd, cause it is way too much energy for the clutch. Besides, this car has plenty of pull from 1st and second, you don't need the extra boost then. 2nd to 3rd is awesome when flat-shifting. It will smoke the tires a bit going into 3rd and toss you back in the seat pretty hard. Just remember, flat-shifting will give you much quicker turbo response, but at the cost of the life of your clutch! Also, make sure to turn off DSC when doing this and time the shift so that you don't exceed 6000 rpms during the shift. Wastegate tries to trigger around then, so you are loosing the bennefit. I try to shift from 2nd to 3rd around 5200-5500 rpms and do it quick.

Good luck!

i can spin the tires in 3rd normal shifting tho.....i duno ill proly be too scared to try it cuz ive never done it.....

 

[Speedy3]

Very nice times for not flat-shifting. Kinda looks like you know what you're doing. C&D shoulda let you run their 0-60 and 1/4 mile!

Thanks! I have been practicing quite a bit. I think the cold weather helps by increasing the intake air density and giving a little extra umph. It has been in the 30's here and I believe the C&D test was a bit warmer. The article doesn't give the environmental conditions during their test, but it looks sunny, with a California landscape. For 0-60, The flat shifting will only help the Speed 3 from 2nd to 3rd because it will hit 60 just after shifting.

 

[desperado-c]

So, FWIW, I did some runs in 4th up some pretty good inclines, and the boost ceiling is definitely lower than 16 psi, more like 15 and quickly going down to 14. AMS and CP-E (I think) have said that the throttle is closing in gears 1-4. So maybe that's the reason. This is too much, first almost all the mags say that boost is only limited in 1st & 2nd. Then we find out it's also actually limited in 3rd. And now it looks like it is limited in 4th, or at least the the throttle effectively limits boost even if the wastegate isn't tripped.

Oh, well, still a great car, but I wish Mazda had been up front about it.

 

[redms3gt]

A little entertainment........(omg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWxhfI6FFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox3oQXLaaoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34uy9vveY-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Ryjn6lN84

no flat shifting yet. somebody post some vids..

 

[Nutari]

A little entertainment........(omg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsWxhfI6FFs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox3oQXLaaoA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34uy9vveY-c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4Ryjn6lN84

no flat shifting yet. somebody post some vids..

Those were you? I found those videos a while ago...

last video has my current favorite song btw...

 

[jcrystal]

Comments on Auterra?

Ok, here are the graphs of Run 1 and Run 2. I added labels to the peaks and valleys.

Having owned it a while, what are your thoughts about Auterra, esp. vs. AutoEnginuity?

 

[Speedy3]

Having owned it a while, what are your thoughts about Auterra, esp. vs. AutoEnginuity?

This is the first data logging SW that I have used. I'm not familiar with AutoEnginuity, but after looking at their web site, it looks like theirs costs more and doesn't include the Dyno tool. The Dyno tool actually is half the fun. You can measure HP/Torque output at the tires per gear. Also, it will do acceleration runs with 0-60, 1/8 mile, and 1/4 mile times.

Any data is exportable into a .csv file, which you can view and graph in Excel, but I think the AutoEnginuity export is better because it looks like it automatically formats the data into columns. Auterra doesn't, it all goes into the same column and you have to filter out by OBDII code. A little time consuming. AutoEnginuity also has the alarm feature, which Auterra doesn't.

That's the best I can do, not having used AutoEnginuity.

Good luck and don't forget to look for promotion/coupon codes before finalizing your order. I saved 10% on my order.

 

[dpeat]

Keep the throttle on while shifting.

Wikipedia:
Powershifting (a.k.a. flat shifting, full throttle shift, or cluthchless shift) is a method of shifting used with manual transmissions to increase acceleration.

This involves rapidly disengaging the clutch while keeping the accelerator to the floor, shifting, and then rapidly engaging the clutch. The whole movement should be under half a second.

Contrary to popular belief, this does not put very much strain on the transmission, most of the stress is absorbed by the clutch and the rear differential, one of the reasons manual transmission cars break the differential more often than automatics.

BTW, the clutch in the MS3 is apparently designed for this. As a quote from Car and Driver, Nov 2006 "Calls to Mazda yielded tips: Pop the clutch at 2900 rpm, upshift at 6000 redline is 6700 and flat-shift through second and third (which means dont lift at all the mechanical equivalent of dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts and violating our test procedure).

Dont worry, the engineers said, it wont break."

I'm fine with process, if the engineers from Mazda say it's OK, but on another car wouldn't this make the engine rev while the clutch is down, thus burning the clutch?

 

[justa4banger]

FYI in the Sport compact car mag that i have(last month has 3 GTI's on the cover), they have a nice article on the motor alone, not the car. IT DOES SAY that Mazda limits boost in 1,2,3 gears. not just 1, 2nd.

they also claim wheel angle, throttle position and a few other things allow the ECU to control boost, in the end controlling TRQ

Where can i get a gauge pod that was shown in the beginning of the thread was it custom?

 

[justa4banger]

Nevermind i found the gauge pod.

was it drop in or ?? what all has to be done to get it in the car?

 

[udontknowjack]

spike at 18psi....hold betweek 15-16psi