what is the stock turbo's limit on the ms3?

[Powerslave]

like wich is bettter 18psi or 19psi or 19.5 or 20 when does our stock turbo run out of effeciancy? anyone tried 20psi? and is 18.5 -19.0 better than 18.0?
wonder what would happen if you set boosr to 35psi?...lol

 

[BluMicaR]

As I understand it this little turbo is already nearly at finely tuned efficiency, you can squeak maybe another 2-3 psi out at most. 18.5-19 has been every sane boost-controller's peak and without some other hardware (TurboXS cut defender) they are getting fuel cut. Also, I think about 18 is the high end of what is safe in this application on our engines and to maintain the life and operating capacity of the turbo.

Just from my tenure of research and lurking here amongst teh internets of MS3s.

 

[Powerslave]

cool i'm running at 17.8

 

[Powerslave]

so if i have 2 maps one for regular driving and one for race, for the race only map wich would be better 17.8, 18.0, 18.5, 19.0 19.5? wich will push the envelope just to the powermaking limit?

 

[chriscecc914]

the higher you go the more you risk the turbo blowing hot air into the motor, detonating, and cracking one of your rods. The highest i would go is 18psi


If you set the turbo to 35psi it would blow a tremendous amount fo hot air and probably kill the turbo and your motor. wouldnt be too smart.

 

[Powerslave]

cool thanks!!

 

[redspeed3tk]

i remember there was a big debate about this on the audi forum for the 1.8t motor and there was a guy runnin 14psi boost and makin more hp than people running 18psi its more about where the best efficiently is not the higher numbers, like the other guy said hot air isnt power

 

[driver311]

Im not sure but Im gonna find out. I know for a fact you will get high torque numbers if you spike in the lower 20s. I was spiking 20psi on the dyno when I made 371ftlbs. Im guessing 18-20psi on stock tmic but on ets Id guess 22-24lbs. We will see. Remember at those boost levels it will not hold that to redline. Falls off pretty hard so you probably be all good. I want 20psi at redline when i get my pump in. Ill keep everyone posted. Im not afeared. LOL

 

[matsuda]

like wich is bettter 18psi or 19psi or 19.5 or 20 when does our stock turbo run out of effeciancy? anyone tried 20psi? and is 18.5 -19.0 better than 18.0?
wonder what would happen if you set boosr to 35psi?...lol

You have to factor in engine RPM.
20 PSI at redline would be way over the line.

 

[driver311]

You have to factor in engine RPM.
20 PSI at redline would be way over the line.

Show me hard proof of that. NO one has. Everyone is to afraid. People that are not making any more power at higher boost levels is because they dont have the right setup. Gotta have good intercooler, good gas AKA RACE GAS OR METH, exhaust, tune, etc etc. Ive seen it over and over again on the srt, evo, sti's and now the mazda. Everyone has there own opinion but Ill be my own judge.

 

[shark77]

I think what matsuda is getting at is that it's about volume of air and efficiency.

Our K04 is not going to flow anywhere near 20psi at redline on our motors.

Based on the K04-025 (closest map to our specific turbo availible for free) maps that are out there, we can flow a max of 380CFM (0.18m3/sec) at 55% compressor efficiency and a 2.0 pressure ratio. What this tells us is that on our motor, we will only be able to hold a maximum of ~15psi at 5900rpm at 55% efficiency.

Albeit, this can get very complex, so just keeping it simple for message board
purposes, here are some examples based on availible maps:

Based on sea level pressure ratio

K03 = peak flow of 300CFM @ 12psi and peak boost of 25psi flowing 260CFM
K04 = peak flow of 380CFM @ 15psi and peak boost of 25psi flowing 275CFM
16G = peak flow of 530CFM @ 25psi and peak boost of 32psi flowing 420CFM

So on our engine, this is how each of these turbos would make our powerband look.

K03
Max HP = 230hp @ 5100rpm (12psi)
Max TQ = 340ft/lbs @ 3100rpm (25psi)

K04
Max HP = 295hp @ 5900rpm (15psi)
Max TQ = 340ft/lbs @ 3300rpm (25psi)

16G
Max HP = 405hp @ 6300rpm (25psi)
Max TQ = 395ft/lbs @ 4300rpm (32psi)

KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE NUMBERS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT RELATIVE TO EACH OTHER. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT NUMBERS GREATER THAN THIS CAN'T BE MEASURED, AS EACH DYNO IS DIFFERENT.

 

[Powerslave]

interesting stuff!

 

[Powerslave]

Im not sure but Im gonna find out. I know for a fact you will get high torque numbers if you spike in the lower 20s. I was spiking 20psi on the dyno when I made 371ftlbs. Im guessing 18-20psi on stock tmic but on ets Id guess 22-24lbs. We will see. Remember at those boost levels it will not hold that to redline. Falls off pretty hard so you probably be all good. I want 20psi at redline when i get my pump in. Ill keep everyone posted. Im not afeared. LOL

it will be cool to see the results, especcially with that new fuel pump

 

[aaronc7]

Do we know any more about our turbo? As to what exact model it is.

 

[Dream]

This should be a sticky. Great info shark.

 

[clos561]

Do we know any more about our turbo? As to what exact model it is.

i beleive we have the borg warner k04

 

[FRUCTOSE]

Not trying to start an argument but which 16g was tested? There are many different 16g's and did they test the turbo's on the same engines? Or are these test results guesses on the cars they come on?

I don't think max hp and tq numbers are correct on those. CFM looks good but hp and tq is more dependent on engine and set-up.

 

[Darksun280]

i beleive we have the borg warner k04

If thats the truth i don't know why people are scared to push it up to 20 psi. The new 2.0L turbo cobalt is running the same one and they come at 20 psi stock. Turbo's good up to 23 psi before the air is super heated. Granted cobalt has a front mount to cool down the air going into the motor better.

 

[shark77]

Not trying to start an argument but which 16g was tested? There are many different 16g's and did they test the turbo's on the same engines? Or are these test results guesses on the cars they come on?

I don't think max hp and tq numbers are correct on those. CFM looks good but hp and tq is more dependent on engine and set-up.

I was basing the 16g off of the TD05H-16G large wheel variety.

In my previous post, everything was based on the MS3 engine.

As far as max hp, look at it relative to the other numbers I posted for the k03 and the k04.

As far as where the peak numbers would fall on the RPM scale, I am accurate as I am basing it off of the flow (CFM) and our engine displacement.

On an Evo for instance, the 16g I was talking about, will move the power higher in the RPM band in comparison to the MS3 simply because it has ~300cc's less displacement. So to be able to consume that flow, the Evo's engine needs to turn more RPM at a given amount of boost. However, peak power should be the same as air flow is closely correlated to horsepower. Thats why any given turbo essentially dictates a maximum power level for an engine it is on.

It is the difference in displacement that explains where a turbo's power will set up on the RPM band. This is why a16g dyno on an Evo looks different from what ours would look like with the same turbo.

Of course this is a simplistic answer as there are other variables, but the turbo and displacement are the major variables. All others will only modify slightly from what these two combine to create.

Remember this is all predicated on the engine being able to handle the maximum that the turbo can put out.

 

[laloosh]

If thats the truth i don't know why people are scared to push it up to 20 psi. The new 2.0L turbo cobalt is running the same one and they come at 20 psi stock. Turbo's good up to 23 psi before the air is super heated. Granted cobalt has a front mount to cool down the air going into the motor better.

you will soon learn alot about the mazda boards grasshopper...i must have told you at least 10 times over aim