what is the stock turbo's limit on the ms3?

[matsuda]

If thats the truth i don't know why people are scared to push it up to 20 psi. The new 2.0L turbo cobalt is running the same one and they come at 20 psi stock. Turbo's good up to 23 psi before the air is super heated. Granted cobalt has a front mount to cool down the air going into the motor better.

The 20 PSI maximum boost pressure will only happen in the midrange. At higher RPMs, the engine management will taper off the boost pressure.

Also, that engine has a smaller displacement.

Maximum (safe and efficient) boost pressure for a given turbo is a function of engine displacement and RPM.

 

[Darksun280]

Also, that engine has a smaller displacement.

Maximum (safe and efficient) boost pressure for a given turbo is a function of engine displacement and RPM.

That won't effect what the tubo itself is good too. That just shows how much air the turbo will flow across a power band in relation to the size of the motor. If we go by what you say in relation to the smaller 2.0L motor to the 2.3 in our car the smaller the motor the more boost the car can run safely which is actually the opposite. Srt-4's come with the same size turbo as ours but a less efficient series of it. They can run 20-21 with just stage 1 ecu so why would our newer more efficient model not be able to too? Did i forget to mention they have a bigger motor then us. the model of the turbo will affect when and where you see you power come on and fall off but the motor its being used on will never change what the turbo itself is capable of, that just changes the results you'll see.

 

[Darksun280]

This is off SS.net when people were looking for a direct swap turbo for the new turbo cobalt.
"
Since a lot of people have been asking what the stock LNF turbo is, I did the research.

Update: BW K04 Compressor Map

Thanks go to NJHK, Witt, and Beau (solstice forums)

Borg Warner K04 Turbo

Maximum flow:......... .21 kg/s or 380.6 cfm
Optimum output:....... 185 kW or 248chp

It looks like a possible upgrade would be swapping to a K24 turbo (I will be doing more research on this swap: bolt patterns, size, etc)

Borg Warner K24 Turbo

Maximum flow:......... .30 kg/s or 543 cfm
Optimum output:....... 250 kW or 335chp

They both have an efficiency range of 15-25psi.

These two turbochargers are both twin scroll, both have the same type of surgevalve, and both are good to 1050 degrees C.

To give a comparison of turbos, the BW K24 turbo is approximately equal to the flow and power levels as the APS SR30. This is a common street/low hp upgrade for the WRX STI."
.

 

[BluMicaR]

I foresee this all going down the bad place road to a denoument of flame war and 'no-I'm-right-you're-wrong', regardless of any science involved...

 

[Darksun280]

Also i just thought about it but whats the stock compression of the MS3 motor. I know the cobalts is 9:5:1 compression which is one reason why it can make almost the same stock crank HP numbers as the MS3 on a smaller motor. But it still took almost 4 extra psi to do it. that .3 displacement probably really helped our motor out.

 

[Dream]

So the stock turbo on the MS3 is twin scroll?

 

[Darksun280]

I foresee this all going down the bad place road to a denoument of flame war and 'no-I'm-right-you're-wrong', regardless of any science involved...

Debates and arguments are what makes the Interwebz go round. With out them no one will learn nothing. Hell If im wrong im sure i'll learn some thing. I don't mind being wrong but i damn sure have to be proven that first....

 

[Darksun280]

So the stock turbo on the MS3 is twin scroll?

If its the same Borg Warner K04 Turbo that the new cobalt ss/sc is gonna be running and some other cars. Its just a more efficient version of the ko4 the srt-4 was pimping. It seems like no one on this site has a clue too what the exact turbo is on these vehicles except maybe the vendors who do turbo swaps. And even then maybe they don't even know exactly what the stock one is or is rated for cause its easier to just take it off and put on a different turbo that they do know.....

 

[Dream]

If its the same Borg Warner K04 Turbo that the new cobalt ss/sc is gonna be running and some other cars. Its just a more efficient version of the ko4 the srt-4 was pimping. It seems like no one on this site has a clue too what the exact turbo is on these vehicles except maybe the vendors who do turbo swaps. And even then maybe they don't even know exactly what the stock one is or is rated for cause its easier to just take it off and put on a different turbo that they do know.....

Yes, I kind of get that feeling as well. Maybe we should look at what the exhaust manifold looks like, that should be able to tell us if its a single or twin scroll.....

 

[Dream]

I also just sent an email to BW asking for the exact specs on the turbo on the MS3 from there website,,,


http://www.bwauto.com/contacts/#turbo

 

[Darksun280]

Yes, I kind of get that feeling as well. Maybe we should look at what the exhaust manifold looks like, that should be able to tell us if its a single or twin scroll.....

I JUST Got my car and its so cold i haven't had a chance to look underneath the car much yet.

 

[Darksun280]

I also just sent an email to BW asking for the exact specs on the turbo on the MS3 from there website,,,


http://www.bwauto.com/contacts/#turbo

I have a feeling that maybe its not a BW I remember that the BW had a trade off for spool up vs Peak power. Give me a sec to look it up. But if it was the same Td04 the wrx's and VDubs were using theres no way you guys would be making that kinda power at that much boost at only 16-18 psi. The srt-4 guys with a Td04 STRUGGLE to get over 300whp on stock turbo and have a hell of a lot more mods then some of the MS3 members on here

 

[Darksun280]

"The BW turbocharger has two scrolls, each is fed by separate exhaust passage. One passage from cylinders 1 and 4, the other from 2 and 3. On a four cylinder engine, the firing order for the motor is 1-3-4-2...cylinder 1 is ending it's power stroke and opening it's exhaust valve while cylinder 2 still has it's exhaust valve open (cylinder 2 is in it's overlap period). In a conventional exhaust manifold the pressure pulse from cylinder 1's exhaust blow down event is more likley to contaminate cylinder 2 with high pressure exhaust gas. This not only hurts cylinder 2's ability to breath properly, but this pulse energy would have better been utilized in the turbine....

separates by firing order to prevent pressure bleeding off of the turbo...allowing for constant pressure to the turbine to minimize lag at low engine speeds...." Sunburst_SS @ss.net


"twin scroll/sectional exhaust housing. two exhaust entry points, not just one.
in a nut shell." - Area47 @ ss.net

 

[clos561]

Also i just thought about it but whats the stock compression of the MS3 motor. I know the cobalts is 9:5:1 compression which is one reason why it can make almost the same stock crank HP numbers as the MS3 on a smaller motor. But it still took almost 4 extra psi to do it. that .3 displacement probably really helped our motor out.

we have the same compression ratio. that extra 2.3 is going to help us with the big numbers in the long run..i have a feeling the 2.0's will start popping sooner than ours seeing as they are running higher psi to match our numbers since it is a smaller motor.

 

[Dream]

Also, is our motor a closed deck block? Anybody have pics? From what I can gather, we have forged crank and rods, yum! The STi's have the same thing, and they can handle a decent amount of power in stock form. I threw in some forged pistons in my STi and laid down 500whp (stoned)

 

[Darksun280]

Also, is our motor a closed deck block? Anybody have pics? From what I can gather, we have forged crank and rods, yum! The STi's have the same thing, and they can handle a decent amount of power in stock form. I threw in some forged pistons in my STi and laid down 500whp (stoned)

well unless they changed somthing our rods look kinda skimpy. There was pics of some out an ms6 a little bit ago on club rsx

 

[Darksun280]

we have the same compression ratio. that extra 2.3 is going to help us with the big numbers in the long run..i have a feeling the 2.0's will start popping sooner than ours seeing as they are running higher psi to match our numbers since it is a smaller motor.

I wish i could agree but i really can't. the reason the supercharged motors were popping was heat Plain and simple. That M62 was nothing but a heat grenade strapped to the top of the motor with the pin out once you went over 15-16 psi. Also I ran 13.5 air fuels on my car for 2 years before i just got rid of it a 15 psi. IT never caused my car to break. But dudes with 11.1 air fuels running 20 psi with a much smaller pulley sending heat in there were blowing up left and right.

 

[Fritch]

So the stock turbo on the MS3 is twin scroll?

no, its not

 

[Fritch]

well unless they changed somthing our rods look kinda skimpy. There was pics of some out an ms6 a little bit ago on club rsx

they are forged, just not the best forged rods

 

[Darksun280]

no, its not

I figured that now We gotta figure out if its just a regular old TD04 but Iknow how it is. The old school TDO4's I've noticed have a problem getting cars between 2.0-2.5 litters to 300 + whp. Man i've been searching the interwebz all morning and can't find s*** on the specs of the turbo. I'm gonna try and call the dealership.