VICS measurement?

[MP3#872]

After doing a run with my Auterra OBDII scanner, I just wanted to post some info. It looks like the MP3 maxes out around 35 degrees of advance then instantly jumps to 63.5 degrees of advance and doesn't move up or down until it jumps back to around 35 degrees. Is this measuring the VICS? I can't think of anything else that would allow for this jump in advance.

Any thoughts?

MP3#872

 

[70]

The advanced timing is where the extra ten horsepower comes from. It should happen on the top end, which is when the VICS is open.

 

[Traveler]

There are a couple places that the extra HP on the MP3 comes from. One, is about 5 degrees more max ignition timing. FM tested a stock MP3 ECU in a P5, and it made about 3.5 more HP. The other difference is the intake manifold. The MP3 doesn't have the VTCS and has a lot smoother port transition. I modified my stock intake to basically be an MP3 intake and it made a HUGE difference in driveability.

The VICS activation point is between 4700-4800 RPM. You see it on a chassis dyno as a slight dip in power, and then it rises again.

 

[70]

Oddly enough, that was my ECU they used...and my MP3 they put there ECU in...

Not that it matters much. But yeah.

 

[twilightprotege]

hey traveler, what did you do to modify the intake? feel like doing a how-to???

later

 

[Traveler]

I was going to post it on the other Protege site (have to upload some pics to TheMan over there) first. Then I'll transport it over here.

 

[twilightprotege]

sounds good, thanx

later

 

[70]

I was going to post it on the other Protege site (have to upload some pics to TheMan over there) first. Then I'll transport it over here.

I saw that thread....Are you speaking of removing the VTCS??

 

[twilightprotege]

sorry to bring this thread back to the top, but has anyone tried zip-tieing the VICS open??? I ask because yesterday I put my car on a dyno and at the VICS activation point there was quite a dip, i'd like to fix this because where it dips is where you want an engine to be taking off, not dipping....

if someone has zip-tied the VICS open, any CEL?

later

 

[TheMAN]

that's a bad idea.... you'll be losing torque and powerband linearity

don't worry about that dip, you won't feel it if you just redline the engine... you *will* if you are partial throttle up to that range of rpm though

also, the FS-DE used in the European/Australian protege does not have VTCS and also has the same intake cam as the FS-ZE... that FS-DE also has 9.7:1 compression pistons... this is something that will actually make the FS-DE measure up to the 130hp claim (yes, that's the rated power for that other version of the FS-DE)

 

[twilightprotege]

yep that's right, my car doesnt have VTCS and had 9.7:1 compression pistons...my engine is rated to 98kw @6000 rpm standard...that's 131.4hp

yeah i wasnt sure about the vics. i'd really like it to kick in slightly earlier because on my car it doesnt kick in until 5500rpm, the engine then revs to 6500rpm, so when ever you change gears, it goes back out of the VICS range, then back in...and so on.

 

[Yello-MP3]

VICS is not like V-tec don't mix those two. VICS is merely a smoothing of the power band it doesn't add power to the engine.
Peace,
Zane

 

[twilightprotege]

Yello-MP3, i'll just throw this question back at you, do you know what VICS is? i dont want to have a go at you, that's the last thing i want to do on this board, but from what you said i dont think you do.

VICS adds power to the power of the engine because at high rpm is changes the air's path through the intake manifold from the long runner to the short runner. at high rpm short runners make more power, at low rpm longer runners make more power....in a way yes it does smooth the power band, but yes it does add power to the engine because without it, the engine wouldnt make as much power

later

 

[TheMAN]

this coming from a guy who insists it's impossible to overrev an engine

(rofl)

VICS is not like V-tec don't mix those two. VICS is merely a smoothing of the power band it doesn't add power to the engine.
Peace,
Zane

 

[Yello-MP3]

Twilight i'm not trying to have a go at u nor do i believe i know all. Just from what i understand from reading tons and tons about the FE3 and our engine which both have the VICS systems is that VICS adds power yes but only by it smoothing out the power band. This is just whati understood. If i am wrong set me straight. It just seemed like u thought VICS was like V-Tec... thats all.
Peace,
Zane
And "TheMan" if u have something to say about another post then reply to that post don't post it here. I never said it was impossible to over rev an engine. I was calling bs on nocar because there has been so many other times that he was full of s***. And btw u go do sumthing for me go do 80mph and put ur gear to 2nd and see if it goes in and if it does then i was wrong but it wont so like i was saying if u have something to say go reply to that post.
Thanks,
Zane

 

[twilightprotege]

yeah the main difference between VICS and v-tec like systems is what they are changing. VICS is a system to shorten the intake runner in the intake manifold. v-tec systems basically open additional valves at hi rpms. that's very simply explained, but that's the idea anyway

later

 

[cortez]

Take a look at this link below for a dyno run comparison from a '99 Miata where they test the VICS.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_runs/99_050400.pdf

"Here's our '99 with 600 miles on stock engine, FM single n/a exhaust. If you look at the chart, Run 29 is with hose disconnected and plugged for the VICS actuator. Major drop in midrange torque. Run 30 is with VICS hooked up normally. Run 31 is with VICS locked in the low rpm position, you can see that peak hp is the same, but hp plummets after about 6k rpm."


Also, the Honda VTEC does not open extra valves. The Honda VTEC is basically a camshaft with two sets of profiles with an rpm activated switch to use hydraulic pressure to switch from one camshaft profile to the other one. Basically like swapping between a low end cam and a high rpm cam with more lift and duration.

The newer "i" in the newer VTEC-i systems, like the Mazda system and the BMW VarioCam system, is basically an adjustable camshaft sprocket controlled by the computer instead of you adjusting it on a dyno. It moves it around to move the engine's powerband to the rev point that you are.

 

[Yello-MP3]

very good info thanks....
Zane

 

[nocar]

in my car the only gear that doesnt alow the shifter in untill a certain spped, rpm is first, all the other gears let the shifter go in at any speed. Maybe its just me pushing the shifter in to hard or somethings messed up but im not the only one who this has happened to..

 

[twilightprotege]

yeah you're right about v-tec. i was warn out from a hard day's work...i meant to write it opens the valves an additional amount. sleep is very much needed by me.

that's very interesting about the miata vics system, that's the sorta thing i was wanting to see...how vics enabled (normal and locked in position) and disabled compair to each other.

but those graphs certainly dont point out the vics kick in area as much....have a look at my dyno chart (attached)

later