Twiggy Sticks Install, tuning and results thread

[yashart_mp3]

Let me try to explain this again. You are infact miss understanding what I am saying.

I am not questioning the design/ engineering behind these cams. I know that the cams dictate the valve clearance required, not the head. I could careless what the cams dictate the lash to be. What I am talking about is taking the actual measurements once they are installed.

The edited part of your post is more along the lines of what I am talking about. If infact the base cirlce was reduced, then the actual valve clearance (distance between the valves and camshaft) should not be an issue.

I will be installing my cams and measuring the valve clearance with them in my spare/ported head tonight or tomorrow. I will take some pics and report back with what I find.

 

[Crazee D]

Pic of oil plugs

 

[LordWorm]

Let me try to explain this again. You are infact miss understanding what I am saying.

I am not questioning the design/ engineering behind these cams. I know that the cams dictate the valve clearance required, not the head. I could careless what the cams dictate the lash to be. What I am talking about is taking the actual measurements once they are installed.

The edited part of your post is more along the lines of what I am talking about. If infact the base cirlce was reduced, then the actual valve clearance (distance between the valves and camshaft) should not be an issue.

I will be installing my cams and measuring the valve clearance with them in my spare/ported head tonight or tomorrow. I will take some pics and report back with what I find.

Ok yep, i got the wrong end of the stick - sorry man.

I'm almost positive these are "right out of the box" - andrew checked my lash for me while we installed them.....i had my back turned while he did it though

going by shabaka's comments, its not a problem if we run them "tight" according to his blurb...its too much lash, as opposed to not enough, which is damaging according to that. Someone may need to shed some light on it.

I believe some people have also had their cams professionally installed, such as AusOrion, and i think 1 or 2 others - so it'd be good to get their take on it (one would assume their mechanic's did the job right and checked everything down to the Nth degree).


Crazee: since it seems you'll be the first person to do the install 100% correctly, mind doing a photo journal of it for us all? I did mine without taking the belt off (just pushed it off the cam gears, pulled the old cams out, dropped the new ones in, tightened everything back up, got the thing at TDC, aligned the cams and pushed the belt back on....more or less - there was no touching the crank pulley, replacement of crank seals etc....)

 

[yashart_mp3]

^^^ Glad were both on the same page now

I'm off to check the valve clearances now... Ill snap a few pics of the head/ cams/ tools needed...

Whenever I do get the time, I'll be installing my ported head, cam gears, lightweight crank pulley, twiggy cams, as well as replacing all my belts. I'll be able to shed some light for Crazy D and others if they need some assistance along the way.

 

[Crazee D]

Awesome, thanks!
I will be having a shop do my install I think.
Not many performance shops out here for 4 banger imports.

 

[kasmankk]

i got them installed profesionally (i think)

Got the sticks installed on my car last night. Damn..took them > then 12 hrs to do it. It was done about 3am.

I still cannot figure out exactly what they did during the process. they were using a dial gage and timing wheel. Both cams were set using adjustable cam gears .

first impression..the car pulled better then stock cam at >4.5K rpm. the kick came in late..stock cam, kick was about 3K +

I'm going back to the shop tomorrow morning, to get the exact setup on the camgears (cheep version).

As far as the valve clearance, we moved the shim around to maintain within the specs,,unfortunanately, 1 valve has 0.30mm which is slightly out of spec. I'll live with this first.

idling...i had this problem since i switch to evo3 throttle and use the stepper motor to control idle with haltech. very difficult to get stable idle at low rpm. my idle now at 1100 rpm. but..i'm fine with this.

I'd like to seek advice, what is the best camgear setting for intake and exhaust cam.

also, after i installed the camgear, the cam sensor got in the way. so i have to remove it. when i started the car, the charge warning light remained on and rpm showed no reading. so, i had to put back the sensor,but with a spacer. battery now could charge, but the rpm went crazy- because the sensor was picking up signal from the camgear screws! What i did today, i ran the MSD rpm output directly to the tachometer, it worked.

Below are some pics i took during the install. Took 'em with my cell.

 

[yashart_mp3]

Blah

OK, so I just got done measuring the valve clearance, and it looks like I'm going to be ordering a more shims than I anticipated... Here are my results: (Starting from valve 1 on cylinder 1)

Intake (.013)(.013) - (.016)(.014) - (.014)(.015) - (.016)(.011)

Exhaust (.015)(.015) - (.019)(.018) - (.020)(.019) - (.020)(.019)


The ones highlighted in bold need to be replaced. I'm going to move a few of the shims around to see if I can get some of the clearances in spec, that are already really close to being in spec.

Also, the cam pin in in my exhaust camshaft is too long. I cant tighten cam bolt/washer 100% flat. The pin also falls out, which shouldn't be an issue if I grind it down, and use the cam gear washer/bolt to keep it in place...

Anyway, here are a few pics as promised:

 

[LordWorm]

you're running marginally "tight" on all the lash specs it would appear... i reckon swapping is going to save you a few shims!
swap one of the 0.13's for the 0.16 and so on.

exhaust cam lash - looks like i was right and the base circle was marginally reduced to get the clearance right - but obviously not reduced quite enough (but will be different for everyone.....not everyone is going to have the same shims etc - you know this obviously, but some people might not).

you should be able to get the intake cam totally within spec without replacing stuff i reckon, exhaust cam is going to be fun.


check out the exhaust lift in pic 4!

edit: steal the cam pin from your stocko cams if the twiggy stick cam pin is too long.

 

[LordWorm]

I'd like to seek advice, what is the best camgear setting for intake and exhaust cam.

The overlap they were "released" with is the "best guess/average/ideal" overlap setting for forced induction....get the gears reset to that point (details in the GB thread...) as a starting point, then get your shop to do a few dyno pulls, work out where the power is coming on.

If your shop is worth paying, they should know how to adjust the gears to get the "kick" occuring earlier (get better bottom end, sacrifice top end power), or later (sacrifice torque, get monster top end) - i know on an NA application its as "simple" as closing the overlap a little - but on FI when the overlap is already negative - i don't quite know how this is done....


as for your idle - i suffer a simillar problem - aftermarket ecu's don't have the fidelity to control idles that well. I idle at 1000, but a couple of guys have managed to get it VERY low on aftermarket ecu's... ignition timing and running a slightly rich idle are your friends here....richen up the idle to smooth it out, and give it a bit more timing to promote stronger vac signals and you should be able to push it down a little....

 

[Crazee D]

Oh boy, lots of fun in store for me.

 

[LordWorm]

Oh boy, lots of fun in store for me.

?

 

[Crazee D]

I have yet to have any installation of any part go "according to plan". Its the Protege jinx.

 

[LordWorm]

I have yet to have any installation of any part go "according to plan". Its the Protege jinx.

oh - dude you're not the only one. I can certainly sympathize with you on that front.

worth it in the end tho

 

[Crazee D]

Any updates?
Kasman? Yashart?

 

[mazdaspeedwerx]

are cam gears needed for the bumpsticks? if so did tri point ever start selling cam gears?

 

[LordWorm]

are cam gears needed for the bumpsticks? if so did tri point ever start selling cam gears?

not needed no
recommended to get the most out of them? probably.

The overlap set up for na and fi was always a case of "best guess and lots of years of experience"... but no place can be expected to know what is absolutely perfect for every single motor with every single combination of mods

you could definantly squeeze more area under curve, or more peak power with a set of cam gears.....and are recommended for getting the absolute most out of them
but no, you don't *need* them

 

[supa saiyan pr5]

thats nice to hear lordworm..since no one wants to make the cam gears for the FS..


Jeremy

 

[kasmankk]

dyno-tuned!

Any updates?
Kasman? Yashart?

the cam gears where apperrently set to slightly advance, therefore the power kicked in late. How many degree advance...ehmmmm. i have to check tomorrow. I want to cut an openning to the valve cover so that the cam gears can be set without removing the cover.

i ran at 1 bar boost max , that's about 14.5 psi.
305 bhp @ 6500
356 nm torque @ 5000 rpm


the power was going up still at rev cut (7000 rpm). I think it can go a few more ponies if i were to extend the rev cut. but i want to play safe.

Next, i'd like to shift the power band to lower RPM. The tuner told me to retard the cam gears .

Here are some dyno runs i did over the past few years.
Dyno graph on twiggy was reproduced on excel using raw data.

by the way, how do you post picture directly on this page?

 

[LordWorm]

brake horsepower? as in, engine horsepower not wheel horsepower?

you're making all your power late, so yeah, get the gears dialed in so you hit your peak power at around 6800ish and fall off from there.

 

[kasmankk]

brake horsepower? as in, engine horsepower not wheel horsepower?

you're making all your power late, so yeah, get the gears dialed in so you hit your peak power at around 6800ish and fall off from there.

very good question...
the readout from the dyno machine is in bhp. they use DASTEK dynamometers. i believe its wheel horsepower, since wheels were on the roller, unless there is a constant they multiply to get engine horsepower.