tru-boost cp-e full throttle experiance.

i'm not saying the turbo is a bad mod by any means. my car does pull noticably more than the stocker. i do think on a fully bolted car that can flow huge amounts of air both in/out... it may not be the best choice. i will be going 2871. i need a few weeks to scrape up some $$$
 
Thhats prolly my main reason for only goinf with the pg upgrade, seems like a good mod with a very reasonable price. plus the fact that it will perform very with stock flash and the usual bolt ons.
 
Tru, did you happen to think the way your mbc is hooked up could be causing your problems? Last time we IM'd you were running it as a "bleeder" with only the top wastegate line going into it and capping the other port. You said you had to crank the mbc like 60+ turns to get desired boost this way.

I have to tell you I've tried my turbosmart many different ways including the way you had/have (bleeder) and I found it was by far the worst way.

It was difficult to reach desired boost, like you said, cranking it open like 60 turns, and it didn't hold boost like the other methods.

Hell I've held 15psi to past 6k using a map clamp only on stock boost control system (no mbc).

Its kinda strange that the flash didn't offer more performance, because I'm sure your throttle closes just as much or more than anyone elses due to your mods. Its possible you have other issues (ie-mbc) that is preventing you from holding onto boost and I dont think the FT flash is solely marketed for this either.

Good luck nonetheless, I'm sure you'll get it sorted.
 
whats funny is i hooked the mbc up that way (with the outlet capped) when i put the new turbo in. a week or 2 ago when i pulled my inlet tube off to test fit the revised forge WGA i did put it back inline with the wga like it was before. i tuned it down a little, expecting to see it make a difference, but it didnt. i still had to open thst thing waaayyyy up compared to the setting of the old turbo. however after some mbc/wga tweeks i now have it holding 15psi all the way to the rev limiter in evey gear. it doesnt hold target boost long though. i try to get 20psi and it does hit it but only up to about 5500rpm. thats when it starts to drop, even with the flash. by 6k i am at 15psi and it will now hold that all the way up. i have mixed thoughts about the flash at this point. i honestly think it isnt really needed. especially with a big turbo. all the big turbo guys i have seen so far have all been able to hold their target boost to redline UNFLASHED. the ms6 guys have been doing it for years now. i think i will have a throttle flash again down the road, but it will be in the form of the cobb AP along with the map they are working on for a 2871 right now !!
 
Cobb is working on a map for the 2871r? You shitting me? That would be perfect for me since I've been running the gt28 for a couple months now. But I'll believe it when I see it.

But going back to your original post, I don't think the stock turbo will hold boost to redline with the throttle plate fully open. Stock throttle plate, yes, maybe. But fully open, no way. I'm glad I went with the gt28 instead of the reworked stocker. Ken (pg) highly recommended the gt28 over the gt30 for MY needs. And I don't regret the decision one bit. If you get it, you'll love it. Just be sure to put a pill in the hose for compressor side. If you read the other forums, you'll know what I mean. Otherwise trying to hit your target boost will be a pita. You'll enjoy it once you get it!
 
Cobb is working on a map for the 2871r? You shitting me? That would be perfect for me since I've been running the gt28 for a couple months now. But I'll believe it when I see it.

Just be sure to put a pill in the hose for compressor side. If you read the other forums, you'll know what I mean. Otherwise trying to hit your target boost will be a pita. You'll enjoy it once you get it!

can you elaborate on that some ? i dont know what "pill" you mean. and what line ? the one that goes to the wga ?
 
can you elaborate on that some ? i dont know what "pill" you mean. and what line ? the one that goes to the wga ?
With the ATP GT2871 or any turbo for that matter, you will need to have a restrictor pill the vacuum lines. If you are not familiar with this piece, you can use this document to help educate you about this piece. This restrictor pill is VERY functional when it comes to factory boost control.

You are going to need to ask ATP if they press in a restrictor pill in the compressor outlet nipple like the stock turbo has. If not, then I will need to machine something for you that you will have to insert in one of your vacuum lines, the one right off the turbo compressor outlet. This is a very simple process and everyone is going to need to be familiar with this process if they are going to use the factory boost control system...which is more than capable IMO. I have used the factory boost control system to control internal WGs, external WGs, twin turbos, etc.

Take care,
Christian.
 
The ATP does not have a pill pressed into the fitting. I had to find something similar to a pill. I ended up going to Lowes and buying some welding tips. Cut them in half and they fit perfectly into the vacuum lines. Cobbs document shows my exact setup (same setups as the subaru turbo vac lines). If you go to the mazdaspeed forums. You'll see my thread there about GT turbos and my problem with getting my target boost without a pill. You just need to know what size pill is needed. If Christian is or has any experience with the gt28 on the ms3... please post up what size pill you are using. The hole in mine has a .035" hole. Using the Standback set to 20psi. I am spiking to maybe 21-22psi before I settle into 19~20 psi gear pending. I think I tried .065", but could never hit my targets. It was set to 18psi and only hit maybe 14psi.
 
If Christian is or has any experience with the gt28 on the ms3... please post up what size pill you are using. The hole in mine has a .035" hole. Using the Standback set to 20psi. I am spiking to maybe 21-22psi before I settle into 19~20 psi gear pending. I think I tried .065", but could never hit my targets. It was set to 18psi and only hit maybe 14psi.
This is very simple, but will take a bit to explain.

Mechanical Tuning
Changing the size of the center hole in the restrictor pill; the vacuum lines for the factory boost control system contain a small brass restrictor pill located in the short vacuum line coming off the turbo compressor housing. In the MS3/MPS, this restrictor pill is actually pressed into the compressor outlet vacuum nipple. The middle of this restrictor pill has a lengthwise hole precisely machined to a certain specification so that it works with the factory wastegate actuator and the wastegate duty cycle settings in the stock ECU. The size of this center hole can be changed in order to mechanically assist boost control.

A smaller diameter hole in the center of the brass restrictor pill will have a higher tendency to create boost spike in the system and require less wastegate duty cycle to run higher boost. The larger the diameter hole in the center of the restrictor pill, the less chance the boost control system will boost spike and greater wastegate duty cycle will need to run in order to produce higher boost. If you have a stock turbo and are running an AccessPORT map, you have no reason to modify your restrictor pill. If you have installed a new turbocharger and you are using the stock boost control system to tune boost, please verify that the vacuum line coming off the turbo compressor housing (prior to the T-fitting) contains a restrictor pill with a hole machined in the center of the pill.

The stock boost control system most commonly uses a restrictor pill with a center hole size of 0.041 +/- 0.001.

So...

The weaker the WG actuator daiphragm, the smaller hole in the restrictor pill. A 7psi WG actuator needs a restrictor pill in the .030" - .040" range.

The stronger the WG, the larger hole in the restrictor pill. A 16psi WG actuator needs a restrictor pill in the .041" - .058" range.

If you are increasing or holding wastegate duty cycles steady and boost is dropping then you have most likely reached the threshold of the mechanical efficiency of the turbo or your exhaust gas back pressure prior to the turbo is too high and is forcing the wastegate valve to open.

Generally speaking, you should not try to get a 7psi WG actuator to control boost above double its base pressure or 14+psi. Boost control is less stable as you go over double the base WG pressure. If you want to run higher boost, then start with a strong WG actuator.

If you are increasing or holding wastegate duty cycles steady and boost is dropping then you have most likely reached the threshold of the mechanical efficiency of the turbo or your exhaust gas back pressure prior to the turbo is too high and is forcing the wastegate valve to open.

If you are having a small boost spike you may need to decrease the WGDC percentage a few hundred RPM prior to the over boosting event to allow the exhaust energy to be released past the turbine wheel.

NOTE: With porting a wastegate, you are trying and make the wastegate valve function potentially work better which means that your turbo is going to lower boost super fast when the wastegate door/valve opens or not run as much boost as it was engineered to. If you make your wastegate react quicker then boost will be very difficult to stabilize and reach peak #s at an earlier RPM. If you make the wastegate flow better, then the exhaust energy your turbo needs to make and maintain boost will have less opportunity to flow across the turbine wheel. Generally speaking, air/pressure/exhaust gases will always flow along the path of least resistance. Not bashing, just trying to give you a different perspective. I hope this helps.

Take care,
Christian.
 
Good info on the wga. I don't think ATP states which wga you get. So I'm guessing mine is the 7 or 9psi wga. Not only because the .035" seems to suit me fine. But also because running boost directly off the wga (when I didn't run a mbc or the factory soleniod, I just direct routed the hose from the wga to the compressor side nipple) I would only reach about 9psi. So with what you are saying, I should get the 14psi wga since I'm running 20psi. This should help out with boost control stability I take it? Thanks for the tip.
 
This is very simple, but will take a bit to explain.

Mechanical Tuning
Changing the size of the center hole in the restrictor pill; the vacuum lines for the factory boost control system contain a small brass restrictor pill located in the short vacuum line coming off the turbo compressor housing. In the MS3/MPS, this restrictor pill is actually pressed into the compressor outlet vacuum nipple. The middle of this restrictor pill has a lengthwise hole precisely machined to a certain specification so that it works with the factory wastegate actuator and the wastegate duty cycle settings in the stock ECU. The size of this center hole can be changed in order to mechanically assist boost control.

A smaller diameter hole in the center of the brass restrictor pill will have a higher tendency to create boost spike in the system and require less wastegate duty cycle to run higher boost. The larger the diameter hole in the center of the restrictor pill, the less chance the boost control system will boost spike and greater wastegate duty cycle will need to run in order to produce higher boost. If you have a stock turbo and are running an AccessPORT map, you have no reason to modify your restrictor pill. If you have installed a new turbocharger and you are using the stock boost control system to tune boost, please verify that the vacuum line coming off the turbo compressor housing (prior to the T-fitting) contains a restrictor pill with a hole machined in the center of the pill.

The stock boost control system most commonly uses a restrictor pill with a center hole size of 0.041 +/- 0.001.

So...

The weaker the WG actuator diaphragm, the smaller hole in the restrictor pill. A 7psi WG actuator needs a restrictor pill in the .030" - .040" range.

The stronger the WG, the larger hole in the restrictor pill. A 16psi WG actuator needs a restrictor pill in the .041" - .058" range.

If you are increasing or holding wastegate duty cycles steady and boost is dropping then you have most likely reached the threshold of the mechanical efficiency of the turbo or your exhaust gas back pressure prior to the turbo is too high and is forcing the wastegate valve to open.

Generally speaking, you should not try to get a 7psi WG actuator to control boost above double its base pressure or 14+psi. Boost control is less stable as you go over double the base WG pressure. If you want to run higher boost, then start with a strong WG actuator.

If you are increasing or holding wastegate duty cycles steady and boost is dropping then you have most likely reached the threshold of the mechanical efficiency of the turbo or your exhaust gas back pressure prior to the turbo is too high and is forcing the wastegate valve to open.

If you are having a small boost spike you may need to decrease the WGDC percentage a few hundred RPM prior to the over boosting event to allow the exhaust energy to be released past the turbine wheel.

NOTE: With porting a wastegate, you are trying and make the wastegate valve function potentially work better which means that your turbo is going to lower boost super fast when the wastegate door/valve opens or not run as much boost as it was engineered to. If you make your wastegate react quicker then boost will be very difficult to stabilize and reach peak #s at an earlier RPM. If you make the wastegate flow better, then the exhaust energy your turbo needs to make and maintain boost will have less opportunity to flow across the turbine wheel. Generally speaking, air/pressure/exhaust gases will always flow along the path of least resistance. Not bashing, just trying to give you a different perspective. I hope this helps.

Take care,
Christian.
Very good read sir Thnks for educational mtrl! this also will be a great topic for discussion and arguments with my friends
 
One other question Christian if you are still there.... Concerning the wga. Reading other threads/forums about throttle plate fully opened and stuff. Some people are experiencing boost creep with GT series turbo's. This may be due to other issues. Don't need to get into details. But one question I have concerns the wga. Wouldn't a heavier spring or stroner wga promote boost creep? Or I should question it.... would the stronger wga have more boost creep than a weaker wga? Thanks again.
 
would the stronger wga have more boost creep than a weaker wga? Thanks again.
Yes, boost creep would be enhanced with a stronger WG. I have put together a document titled "How To Determine If You Have Mechanical Boost Creep v1.02"

This should be able to answer all of your questions and it also teaches you how to safely recognize and resolve boost creep, which is a mechanical problem that cannot be tuned out.

I have had particularly good experiences with one turbo supplier, Blouch Turbo Inc. They have been able to provide our customer with high-flowing bolt-on turbos that do not exhibit boost creep. I don't believe they make anything for the Mazdaspeed series of vehicle, but they may if they get enough requests.

Take care,
Christian.
 
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