Transmission oil flush/change at 40,000 km?

[paris1]

What I am about to say is purely anecdotal for these "lifetime" ATF maintenance

On our old dodge caravan we dropped the pan at every ATF change since that was what was required. We also had a Saturn in the family with a spin on ATF filter that was changed every time, but on the newer vehicles, I don't drop the pan till about the 3rd change. Funny thing is, the caravan tranny crapped out on us at about 80k, while my other cars ran fine and made it to over 100k without any tranny problems. I am ok with not changing the internal filter every time (if I am changing it every 30k) because:

1) for the most part the transmission is a sealed unit. The only thing that can contaminate the fluid is the internal parts themselves (wear material from the gears, clutch material, and whatever is left from the factory). And if material from these components are clogging your filter, buddy I think you got bigger problems

2) since this is a "lifetime" fluid, I would assume that the filter should work till at least up to the end of the powertrain warranty

3) I am not convinced the cost of parts and labor (if you don't do it yourself) for this preventative maintenance item is worth it to do at every ATF change if you decide to change the fluid at every 30k miles or earlier.

Well I'm not gonna argue with you on this, but allow me to make the following 'anecdotal" observations:
1. Chrysler T-vans have a long and illustrious history of dropping their transmissions right about 70-80k miles.
2."wear material from the gears, clutch material, and whatever is left from the factory" are precisely why the filter is there and why, IMO, if you're going to the trouble of changing 1/3 of the fluid volume, it only makes sense to remove the gunk that has been captured to date by the filter.
3. If you're counting on the "lifetime filter" to make it to the end of the warranty period, why not trust the "lifetime" fluid to do the same. Especially since Mazda puts them both in the same "lifetime" category.
4. That said, if you don't want the hassle of replacing the filter every 30k miles along with the fluid, why not wait till 50k or so and replace them both. That's probably what I will do if I keep the vehicle that long.

 

[Lbear]

These "lifetime" AT fluids are turning out to be complete bunk. Time is showing that these fluids do breakdown and eventually can cause trans failures. Usually around 80k-100k is when problems begin, some minor, some major trans failures.

There was a Porsche Spyder featured on a show and the trans wouldn't shift and would slip. They replaced the fluid and filter, it ran perfectly fine.

Mazda only needs the trans to last 50k miles, which the fluid can and most likely will.

I think it's good PM to change it out around 30k miles, especially if you tow or haul a lot. We are taking about less than $50 and a few hours of labor. People spend more $$ on going out to eat dinner.

 

[CX5_Pete]

Well I'm not gonna argue with you on this, but allow me to make the following 'anecdotal" observations:
1. Chrysler T-vans have a long and illustrious history of dropping their transmissions right about 70-80k miles.
2."wear material from the gears, clutch material, and whatever is left from the factory" are precisely why the filter is there and why, IMO, if you're going to the trouble of changing 1/3 of the fluid volume, it only makes sense to remove the gunk that has been captured to date by the filter.
3. If you're counting on the "lifetime filter" to make it to the end of the warranty period, why not trust the "lifetime" fluid to do the same. Especially since Mazda puts them both in the same "lifetime" category.
4. That said, if you don't want the hassle of replacing the filter every 30k miles along with the fluid, why not wait till 50k or so and replace them both. That's probably what I will do if I keep the vehicle that long.

Not an argument, but a mature debate? Sure! I encourage this very much because I could learn something new or someone could learn something from me.

1) Yep, goes to show that no matter what kind of preventative maintenance one can do, sometimes a transmission will fail regardless because of either bad design or faulty parts (see also any Honda automatic tranny mated to a V6 during 1998 to 2002)

2) I am assuming the capacity of the filter hasn't been fully utilized yet. Yes there may be gunk inside, but does it have the capacity to trap more? Like Keidis said what is the filtering medium rated to? I've seen some other makes ATF tranny filters and they are just a fine mesh screen! I mainly change the fluids due to its suspected breakdown during use (ie loss of viscosity and additive packages).

3) Well thats the thing, I don't know how the fluid is holding up. If I had an AT, I would love to have the fluid tested to be sure. As I said before, this is just what I am comfortable with without any testing done. Just like how @LLbear feels more comfortable changing out his diff fluid and engine oil early. The bottom line is, I really don't know if there is any benefit at this moment since these vehicles are still somewhat new. But if I was going to keep the vehicle for a long time, that is what I feel comfortable doing. Again, purely anecdotal

4) This sounds like a logical plan.

 

[Seabright]

Coming from one of the 2000 era Honda/Acura 5 speed trannys, the consensus of many owners was to do a drain and fill every 30k miles or so and change the external filter if the fluid looked used. According to my mechanic at the time, no need to change the filter if the fluid looked new - no debris to filter.

 

[buyingconstant7]

You can't flush this transmission! It's literally impossible due to the design and especially without the transmisison having a cooling system. Also, the reputable dealer I go to, said Mazda recommends no fluid changes ever as they market it as "lifetime". They see Skyactiv transmissions in with 100k and the fluid is pitch black, but Mazda corporate says that's okay. Never go back to that dealer again! They are trying to upsell you so the techs can do gravy jobs. Trust me, I know what this stuff is all about I worked at a dealer for a year and witnessed many unnecessary upsells. My advice, find another dealer(Saskatoon would only have one, I'm guessing, so find a good shop), call the existing dealer, ask for the service manager, if he doesn't pick up leave a stern message saying why you left and will never come back, and why the service advisor was wrong because Mazda Canada says the fluid is lifetime, doesn't matter if you live in an extreme climate.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

buyingconstant7: While it may not work well do you think that model I referenced in post above might work? It says it can work without a cooling system via dipstick hole.

Don't get me wrong I am strongly on the anti-flush side of the fence

 

[buyingconstant7]

Even though the fluid is "lifetime", I'd still like to change it on a regular basis. I'd hate to drive a car with higher miles, around 100-200k, and know full well the transmission fluid is stark black, gaining metal debris as I go along and no way to get rid of it. I think I'll change the fluid every 100k. But 40,000kms? Uh, hell no

 

[buyingconstant7]

buyingconstant7: While it may not work well do you think that model I referenced in post above might work? It says it can work without a cooling system via dipstick hole.

Don't get me wrong I am strongly on the anti-flush side of the fence

I just can't see that working at all, to be quite honest. I mean, you may get some fluid above the valve body, where the gears are, but you'll still need to remove the pan to get rid of most of it. And plus, these transmission don't take much fluid, and the majority of it will sit in the pan, so I just can't see it being of any benefit.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

In the end everyone should do what they are comfortable with (although I still don't recommend any attempts at a flush on any vehicle). I'm fine with a few hours on a weekend and $60-$70/worth of fluid every 2-3 years for a drain and fill. While it may not protect it from a failure it shouldn't hurt anything either unless I botch the refill quantity.

 

[Bruns]

I live in Hokkaido Japan, where they did all the winter testing for the Skyactiv cars and my dealer never said anything about this.


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[Unobtanium]

Even though the fluid is "lifetime", I'd still like to change it on a regular basis. I'd hate to drive a car with higher miles, around 100-200k, and know full well the transmission fluid is stark black, gaining metal debris as I go along and no way to get rid of it. I think I'll change the fluid every 100k. But 40,000kms? Uh, hell no

I think my Dad's Chevy work van is on around 43XK miles, currently, on OEM fluid from...2002-ish? LOL! I have a friend who's truck (Nissan) is in the 200's and a 1999. Really, either change it, or DON'T...but DO NOT! change a high mileage fluid!!!! If you're going to do it, do it before 50K miles, or forget about it. Changing it at 100K miles will usually destroy the transmission.

 

[Lbear]

I think my Dad's Chevy work van is on around 43XK miles, currently, on OEM fluid from...2002-ish? LOL! I have a friend who's truck (Nissan) is in the 200's and a 1999. Really, either change it, or DON'T...but DO NOT! change a high mileage fluid!!!! If you're going to do it, do it before 50K miles, or forget about it. Changing it at 100K miles will usually destroy the transmission.

I totally agree with the above.

 

[CX-5um]

IMO... granted three drain/fills & a filter change would be best but there is value in just partial replacement of AT fluid as well. I've read many articles that state this helps restore fluid conditioners and lubricating properties to the AT fluid that is lost over time. No idea what particulate level Mazda AT filter captures at. FSM states to only change that filter if chunks are found in the pain. Of course one won't know that unless they dropped the pan. It would have been nice if the AT pan was sealed with a physical gasket over the liquid gasket (IIRC 24 hour cure time) that is utilized.

I'm going to have to agree. Anyone wanting the most out of their stock tranny and plan on keeping it long term: A session of 3 drain/fills every 40-50k miles should do the trick. imho that frequency should allow one to keep the stock filter for the duration of ownership of the car although changing the filter would not hurt.

These "lifetime" AT fluids are turning out to be complete bunk. Time is showing that these fluids do breakdown and eventually can cause trans failures. Usually around 80k-100k is when problems begin, some minor, some major trans failures.

There was a Porsche Spyder featured on a show and the trans wouldn't shift and would slip. They replaced the fluid and filter, it ran perfectly fine.

Mazda only needs the trans to last 50k miles, which the fluid can and most likely will.

I think it's good PM to change it out around 30k miles, especially if you tow or haul a lot. We are taking about less than $50 and a few hours of labor. People spend more $$ on going out to eat dinner.

I think its universally understood by those in the know that "lifetime" = power train warranty period. In the case for skyactiv engines that's what? 5 years 60k miles. Although we may debate when to replace the tranny fluid (30k vs 50k) I think whats more ignorant is to suggest not to change it after 60k mile mark simply because its not in Mazda's manual and/or the word "lifetime" is thrown around. The truth is after 60k miles its not Mazda's problem anymore. And if you write to Mazda they'll simply reply by referring you to a local dealer's recommendations which the OP received. Due diligence for the OP could be to ask another dealership's recommendation and/or get an oil analysis to determine its lifespan. Someone else already did for a Mazda3 I read about and at 30k it still had some protective properties. I changed mine at 40k considering I live in an extreme environment although 50k should be fine for someone in L.A.

 

[yrwei52]

I think its universally understood by those in the know that "lifetime" = power train warranty period.

When I was with VW Passat forum, people found out the so-called "lifetime" VW ATF sold at VW dealers carrys 2-year shelf-life limit ...

 

[CX-5um]

When I was with VW Passat forum, people found out the so-called "lifetime" VW ATF sold at VW dealers carrys 2-year shelf-life limit ...

I really think the term "lifetime" has become more of a marketing gimmick for cars.

 

[yrwei52]

When I was with VW Passat forum, people found out the so-called "lifetime" VW ATF sold at VW dealers carrys 2-year shelf-life limit ...

I really think the term "lifetime" has become more of a marketing gimmick for cars.

The problem is for some car manufactures they seem to truly believe their ATF is a true lifetime fluid. The automatic transmission is "sealed" without drain and fill holes on VW Passat and our BMW 528i. Apparently both manufactures believe thier lifetime AFT has no need to get changed hence drain and fill holes are not part of design in their mind. And there's nothing been specified for ATF change in maintenance schedule. On the other hand our '98 Honda CR-V specifies 75,000-mile ATF drain-and-fill interval, and supports it by having drain and fill holes with a dipstick, plus a detailed how-to section in its owner's manual!

 

[CX-5um]

The problem is for some car manufactures they seem to truly believe their ATF is a true lifetime fluid. The automatic transmission is "sealed" without drain and fill holes on VW Passat and our BMW 528i. Apparently both manufactures believe thier lifetime AFT has no need to get changed hence drain and fill holes are not part of design in their mind. And there's nothing been specified for ATF change in maintenance schedule. On the other hand our '98 Honda CR-V specifies 75,000-mile ATF drain-and-fill interval, and supports it by having drain and fill holes with a dipstick, plus a detailed how-to section in its owner's manual!

VW requires that the DSG tranny oil be changed otherwise the factory warranty will be voided.

BMW and dealer service managers will tell you its lifetime and their is some truth to that. Without getting into details expect to get anywhere from 100k-200k miles if your lucky with the original tranny fluid. That said BMW enthusiasts prefer to change their tranny fluids themselves to improve performance as well as tranny lifespan. 50-60k miles is the recommended interval for BMWs. Really for most trannys these days because well thats when the tranny fluids usually lose their lubricant properties and metal shearing starts to occur at a higher rate. I believed this can be confirmed via oil analysis. The general rule is NEVER change the BMW fluid if its past 100k miles and was never changed. You're better off keeping the original fluids. Source: multiple BMW techs whom I hired over weekends to service my BMW as well as BMW forums.

Here are some BMW tranny fluid info:

BMW recently dropped the “lifetime” moniker from their fluids and filters and replaced it with “extended service.” Additionally, ZF, manufacturer of many of the BMW automatic transmissions, has officially updated their recommendations on automatic transmission servicing to reflect a minimum regular fluid change interval of 62,000 miles or more often if desired, using the approved ZF Lifeguard5, Lifeguard6 and Lifeguard8 fluids, as applicable. See the ZF Automatic Transmission oil Service Letter in the link below:"

http://blog.bavauto.com/11194/bmw-d...-and-filter-change-how-to-replace-auto-trans/


Here's tranny manufacturer ZF's updated recommendation: http://blog.bavauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ZF-oil-service-letter1.pdf

DIY kits: https://www.ecstuning.com/ES2641385/?gclid=CPec4IjMvs0CFdgXgQodnfYFZA

Example of shops specializing in BMW tranny fluid changes: http://procarmechanics.com/when-should-i-service-my-bmw-transmission/

 

[yrwei52]

VW requires that the DSG tranny oil be changed otherwise the factory warranty will be voided.

BMW and dealer service managers will tell you its lifetime and their is some truth to that. Without getting into details expect to get anywhere from 100k-200k miles if your lucky with the original tranny fluid. That said BMW enthusiasts prefer to change their tranny fluids themselves to improve performance as well as tranny lifespan. 50-60k miles is the recommended interval for BMWs. Really for most trannys these days because well thats when the tranny fluids usually lose their lubricant properties and metal shearing starts to occur at a higher rate. I believed this can be confirmed via oil analysis. The general rule is NEVER change the BMW fluid if its past 100k miles and was never changed. You're better off keeping the original fluids. Source: multiple BMW techs whom I hired over weekends to service my BMW as well as BMW forums.

Here are some BMW tranny fluid info:

BMW recently dropped the lifetime moniker from their fluids and filters and replaced it with extended service. Additionally, ZF, manufacturer of many of the BMW automatic transmissions, has officially updated their recommendations on automatic transmission servicing to reflect a minimum regular fluid change interval of 62,000 miles or more often if desired, using the approved ZF Lifeguard5, Lifeguard6 and Lifeguard8 fluids, as applicable. See the ZF Automatic Transmission oil Service Letter in the link below:"

http://blog.bavauto.com/11194/bmw-d...-and-filter-change-how-to-replace-auto-trans/

Here's tranny manufacturer ZF's updated recommendation: http://blog.bavauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/ZF-oil-service-letter1.pdf

DIY kits: https://www.ecstuning.com/ES2641385/?gclid=CPec4IjMvs0CFdgXgQodnfYFZA

Example of shops specializing in BMW tranny fluid changes: http://procarmechanics.com/when-should-i-service-my-bmw-transmission/

Our just sold 2001.5 VW Passat GLX had 2.8L V6 with 5-speed manual transmission. But the automatic version is Tiptronic by ZF and it's sealed and uses "lifetime" ATF.

And thanks for all the info on BMW's automatic transmission. I need to do something for the "lifetime" ATF on our 2000 BMW 528i. I was in shock when I found out the 5-speed Steptronic automatic transmission actually is made by GM, not the ZF!

 

[CX-5um]

Our just sold 2001.5 VW Passat GLX had 2.8L V6 with 5-speed manual transmission. But the automatic version is Tiptronic by ZF and it's sealed and uses "lifetime" ATF.

And thanks for all the info on BMW's automatic transmission. I need to do something for the "lifetime" ATF on our 2000 BMW 528i. I was in shock when I found out the 5-speed Steptronic automatic transmission actually is made by GM, not the ZF!

Our just sold 2001.5 VW Passat GLX had 2.8L V6 with 5-speed manual transmission. But the automatic version is Tiptronic by ZF and it's sealed and uses "lifetime" ATF.

And thanks for all the info on BMW's automatic transmission. I need to do something for the "lifetime" ATF on our 2000 BMW 528i. I was in shock when I found out the 5-speed Steptronic automatic transmission actually is made by GM, not the ZF!

Imho both the ZF and GM in the BMW are good. Living in Plano I'm sure you can find a reputable German shop that can assist with the ATFs for you future BMWs. That said since its a 2000 model I would recommend not changing it (if never changed at this point). Just drive it and enjoy it. I'm 99.99 percent sure a reputable German shop would tell you the same.

Can't recall who made my CC's DSG transmission. Freakin' fastest auto trannies you can get for a non-super car. High maintenance though and clunky in stop/go traffic.

I had two Jettas with inline-5 VW motors paired with Aisin (Toyota) auto transmissions. Bullet proof and reliable combination. I'm not sure if Aisin also builds the skyactiv transmissions or if Mazda builds them in house? All I know is that the skyactiv transmission is smooth (auto and manual) and makes good use of power. Right up there with Honda transmissions but can't stand CVTs. All that said give the Skyactiv transmission some love people and change its fluid at least by 60k miles. If it got you that far with no problems give it some love!!!

 

[buyingconstant7]

I think my Dad's Chevy work van is on around 43XK miles, currently, on OEM fluid from...2002-ish? LOL! I have a friend who's truck (Nissan) is in the 200's and a 1999. Really, either change it, or DON'T...but DO NOT! change a high mileage fluid!!!! If you're going to do it, do it before 50K miles, or forget about it. Changing it at 100K miles will usually destroy the transmission.

While I'm certainly not disagreeing with you, I'm more questioning it, but are you sure? I mean that's what many people said to do with synthetic oil, is if an engine has high miles and has been using a conventional oil, you should NOT switch to synthetic. But recent discoveries show that it doesn't matter if you switch between conventional or synthetic oil every oil change on a high mile engine. The same doesn't apply to transmissions?