Tips for boosted MSP owners

[Eric-BlackMSP]

I'm making this thread in response to all the posts about popped motors etc lately on the forums. I'm by no means an expert at this subject. I just gathered a lot of info from the other threads and I'm posting it here in a central area for all to see.

Lately, past few weeks, a couple of members have been popping thier motors due to increased boost(and other things). We can debate all night and all day as to what caused the motor to go, but lets just try to help each other with some tips to run higher boost safely.

First off, if you want to run higher psi, I would recommend at least 93 octane, and then adding in some Toluene(SP?). You pick this up at a paint store, and it should be used 1 gal per tank of gas. It is 100% safe, and it is naturally occuring in pump gas. This will act as the first barrier to detination, and hoping save some motors.

Second, if you are running a CAI and FMIC, please disconnect your FCD. The fuel cut will actually save your motor, as it stop you from running the car too hard with too much air etc.(My understanding, but please comment)

Third, do not push your car while your in 4th and 5th gear. This basically means stay out of boost in 4th and 5th, or return to stock settings. 4th and 5th gears put high strain on the rods and internals already, with the added psi you are asking for problems.

Fourth,run colder plugs, the NGK are what most of us use. This will also help prevent detination.

Fifth,if you are using a MBC be mindfull of boost spiking. I would recommend a EBC, but they can be exspensive.

Well thats all I have, please free to add and comment on your own experiences! I'm not an expert, and all help is great!

Also please note, that every car is different, and to take all information given to you with a grain of salt. Thanks guys, and happy boosting.

-Eric

 

[GearSlammer]

thanks for the tips. didnt know about the fourth-fifth gear deal, anyone care to elaborate on this?

 

[Brian MP5T]

^^^ He is trying to say don't leave the engine under load for long periods of time. It might give the pistons etc time to return to a less hostile temperature. I personally think that the engine should be built up to handle the stress, but whatever.
(canada)

 

[03MSPRO]

best tip: do not increase your boost

 

[Eric-BlackMSP]

Brian you are right as usual. But these are tips for people who may not want to or can afford to build up an engine. Now, I dont agree with them uping the boost on a stock motor or with no fuel management, but they still do so. I'm just trying to help those guys out, plus if you follow the tips with a built motor it couldnt hurt. .

-Eric

 

[GearSlammer]

thanks brian, have you upgraded the internals on your mp5?

 

[DiscreetSpeed]

imo if you plan on upping the boost definately cool the temps as much as possibly ie fmic and cai...

a must for this car if your boosting higher than 10 psi is the exhaust, free as much as you can.

get a fcd if your upping the boost because fuel cut will kill ya if ya hit it pushin high psi. imagine pushin 15psi then hittin fuel cut...ooh youll be killing it the more and more you hit it.

oh and a gallon of 104 wont hurt and an egt gauge....boost on(headbang)

 

[MazdaDryvr]

I took my car to a privately owned garage for my boost gauge install (yes I suck) and the tech there told me he trained on Porches. He said that they would burn out the engine by driving it around constantly under boost after about three days. I guess some sacrifices must be made.

 

[Brian MP5T]

thanks brian, have you upgraded the internals on your mp5?

Lowered the compression with forged pistons. No crank yet. I hope it holds. It's safer to bring the compression down before playing with boost.

 

[Brian MP5T]

Brian you are right as usual. But these are tips for people who may not want to or can afford to build up an engine. Now, I dont agree with them uping the boost on a stock motor or with no fuel management, but they still do so. I'm just trying to help those guys out, plus if you follow the tips with a built motor it couldnt hurt. .

-Eric

Cool, I hope people don't think I'm trying to be arrogant by saying s*** like this. I don't have some kind of superbilistic complex (Thinking I'm God) or anything. I try to offer the best solution to a given question, and in this case.

If you play with fire, (Boost) expect to be burned eventually. It has been said a thousand times so please don't reply to me saying that..."My MSP is running at 20 Psi and I have no problems" That is already on thirty threads on this board. I know people are upping the boost and having no problems. IMO, it would be great if everyone could afford to do everything at once and never blow engines over stupid little things.

Before anyone plays with a MBC please think about this...

A new engine is $2000 - $4000. Forged internals installed by a mechanic $1000.00, FMIC installed by whoever $900.00, Clutch...Bla Bla Bla. I hope you can see my point. Its a lot less to do the first time. Less than 10 people have blown their motors so that is a good indication that the motor is strong! However, it is up to you.

Please understand, as I said. I do not want this thread to turn out to be a My car does .... Bla Bla Bla thread. Thanks in advance.

LaterBrian

(burnout)

 

[Eric-BlackMSP]

^^^ Agreed. I think most owners with forged pistons have a 9.1:1 ratio. I remember reading that 8.5:1 is great for more boost, but you have no low end power? Can anyone comment more on this?

I think linux has a thread about forged pistons. Its a good read.

-Eric

 

[Brian MP5T]

^^^ EVO with 19 Psi is "8.1:1" stock

 

[Eric-BlackMSP]

Insane! I was speaking on behalf of the proteges . What is your ratio? I would prolly be one of the 9.1:1 guys.

-Eric

 

[Brian MP5T]

^^^ Agreed. I think most owners with forged pistons have a 9.1:1 ratio. I remember reading that 8.5:1 is great for more boost, but you have no low end power? Can anyone comment more on this?

I think linux has a thread about forged pistons. Its a good read.

-Eric

If there was no turbo on a car... Lowering the compression lowers the detonation threshold but it also reduces the power potential.

The nice thing with a turbo set up is that as the pressure increases, the compression ratio rises in your motor. It's like having a variable compression engine.

If you run at 14.5 Psi, that is one Bar or Atmosphere. (Twice as much pressure than ambient)

That would take your stock 9.1:1 compression to roughly 18.2:1

It is allot easier to detonate here...the last place you want to at WOT.

The math is not perfect. It is a generalization. The compression ratio is affected by housing size, A/R ratio, Charge Temperature, Etc... Please use this info as a guide and not the word of god.

LaterBrian

 

[Eric-BlackMSP]

But it spoke from the mouth of god!

Good info though. Wonder if 8.5 is a better choice?

-Eric

 

[Brian MP5T]

But it spoke from the mouth of god!

Good info though. Wonder if 8.5 is a better choice?

-Eric

8.8:1... A nice balance for safety at 12 Psi. The compression you choose should reflect how much boost you want the engine to withstand. If you want to run 20 Psi (not on our cars please) on a T3-T4 turbo then you really have to think about the low 8's. Remember, as you said. The lower you go with your compression, the less power your engine has without turbo loading. IE. down the highway at 60 MPH 20 Vac. It's not really a problem because the turbo compensates when you accelerate. All I'm trying to say is that you may notice a hole in that one second it takes for your turbo to spool up. ( Not A Problem ) once the boost hits 12 you wont even think of the hole.

(p5white)

 

[instylz]

imo if you plan on upping the boost definately cool the temps as much as possibly ie fmic and cai...

a must for this car if your boosting higher than 10 psi is the exhaust, free as much as you can.

get a fcd if your upping the boost because fuel cut will kill ya if ya hit it pushin high psi. imagine pushin 15psi then hittin fuel cut...ooh youll be killing it the more and more you hit it.

oh and a gallon of 104 wont hurt and an egt gauge....boost on(headbang)

I was under the impression that when you hit cut other than the unpleasantness it really does nothing to hurt the car itself...Anyone else care to chime in?

 

[jred321]

^^^ EVO with 19 Psi is "8.1:1" stock

the evo viii is 8.8:1 stock, earlier evo's are lower. 1g dsm's are 7.8:1, 2g's are 8.5:1. if you tune correctly, 9.1:1 will be fine for a turbo, but if i were redoing my internals i would go with 8.5:1. it gives you enough off boost response and allows high boost. the main thing is not the c/r of the engine but the systems in place to make it run correctly at those pressures, which is why you can run rediculous boost on an evo and not blow it up (modified mag made 525 whp on stock internals. tuning is a great thing)

 

[jred321]

I was under the impression that when you hit cut other than the unpleasantness it really does nothing to hurt the car itself...Anyone else care to chime in?

it doesn't hurt anything. it's just telling you that you're about to hurt something, so it says no more

 

[CustomMSP]

Could one get a thicker head gasket instead of new rods and pistons?