This makes my blood boil!

[08cosmic3]

In the end Government Motors will build small crappy cars that no one wants to buy and will have to offer government incentives to coax people into buying them. The lack of free market forces driving the production and quality of these cars will lead to even worst shitboxes being built and to failure of the company anyway but only after we poor a trillion dollars down a rat hole.

 

[micronesia]

The teacher's union is one of the biggest abominations out there. They have many of the same problem as the UAW; Teachers paid regardless of performance level, teachers deemed unfit to teach getting paid sitting in a "rubber room", etc.

Don't even get me started on the schooling system and teacher's union in this country. My daughter will only be homeschooled or at a private school.

I think this is a very common viewpoint. However, most people with this view are extremely ignorant on teacher's unions.

For example, teacher unions and tenure are not the same thing. The rules about whether or not I get tenure are set by New York State. If a teacher is deemed unfit to teach, then why were they given tenure in the first place? Blame the people that granted them tenure, or the system that made it too hard to weed out people who would become rubber room inhabitants (and for the most part this is not the fault of the union).

Also regarding teacher performance, teachers have salary 'gates' so if they start doing a bad job then their pay will get held up and won't increase any further. I could go on and on but most likely someone who has made up their mind on this issue doesn't want to hear it.

 

[Rubasu]

you are all missing the point. On the other dotted line of the union contract is whoever represented the big 3 when the negotiations were going on. The companies agreed to the terms of the contracts so of course the union will ask for as much as it can. So what i am saying is it takes to to tango. the union asks for stuff and the company says yes or no. but ultimately the company has to also sign the contract. As far as concessions go why should they concede anything its not like the company offers to pay the workers more when times are good. That is why I said the companies should have filed chapter 11 and wiped the slate clean. You are also missing that the majority of the money the companies put out every month are paid to former ceos and other managements golden parachutes. millions a month are paid to people who have not worked for them for years not to mention lifetime benefits. why shouldn't the union ask for more if the company is unable to negotiate better terms for itself. As for teachers I do not think you can pay them enough having to deal with everyones elses badass kids all day especially in urban schools. And like micronesia said some of the blame has to be put on the system that make bad teachers tenure instead of getting rid of them and replacing them with someone else. everyone wants to blame the unions for everything when there were two sides at the negotiating table that signed the deals into place...

 

[evilmonkey]

There are too many variables in big business and the economic state. Unless your an expert in all these fields, try not pointing fingers. I am a union employee, and i work with fiber optics. Extreme skill and expertise is a must in my field. Which the company and the union have made possible. Our CEO makes 8 Million a year and our stocks tank regularly(which is his job to maintain). I would give my left arm to be CEO, and i would do it for a fraction of what he makes. Bottom line is....GM's crappy cars,poor management,and employee overhead ALL play a part in their demise. You cant just blame one!!! Everything Rubasu stated is completely true.....those are the facts...like'm or not

 

[BoOsTiN]

So its not the unions fault for asking, its the companys fault for giving whats asked for?

You are aware the company has to "give" or else they are not bargaining in good faith?

 

[kendon]

id say go handle that s***!

(rofl)

 

[evilmonkey]

So its not the unions fault for asking, its the companys fault for giving whats asked for?

You are aware the company has to "give" or else they are not bargaining in good faith?

Its called contract "negotiations"

 

[Knox Joe]

Wow, you guys obviously don't understand the "strongarm tactics" used by the UAW.

 

[oaklandopen]

How funny would it be if eventually all american govt fleet vehicles were hondas

 

[evilmonkey]

All unions use strong arm tactics....without them the companies would walk all over their union employees and not think twice about it!. These billion dollar a year companies would love to ditch you , and anyone else who worked for them if they felt like it. Let me ask you this.....What are the tactics used by GM against the UAW called?

I've had enough of this stupid post...If i wanted to argue big business and union crap I'd just got to work....

 

[oaklandopen]

What are the tactics used by GM against the UAW called?

Giving in?

 

[08cosmic3]

Soon the only union jobs left will be in governmnet.

 

[Rubasu]

every company has a right to bring in an outside mediator to oversee the negotiations and decide if what each side is asking for is fair. If a negotiation is seen as being not in good faith then usually that is when the mediators are called. I belong to the second largest auto workers union in the states and when we were NEGOTIATING our contract it got really ugly at times lots of screeming and yelling and walking out of the rooms by both parties. Being willing to sit at the table with the other side and agreeing to listen to them is usually the only sign of good faith that is needed wants the terms start flying the gloves are off. If the big three are to stupid to better protect their interests and give into the unions demands without much fuss then how can you possibly blame the union for asking for what it wants they know they will get it because the reps for the big three have no backbone to stand up to them. the unions are as strong as they are because they have the power to walk out on the job and strike. If the big three were to stupid to invoke a no strike into the contracts then shame on them ,this gives the union it's "strongarm tactic" as you call it, this is another reason the unions are able to get what they want from the companies because if they don't they will walkout and no one can do anything about it, who's fault is that, that there is no strike clause the unions or the companies...

 

[Peter B]

All unions use strong arm tactics....without them the companies would walk all over their union employees and not think twice about it!. These billion dollar a year companies would love to ditch you , and anyone else who worked for them if they felt like it. Let me ask you this.....What are the tactics used by GM against the UAW called?

I've had enough of this stupid post...If i wanted to argue big business and union crap I'd just got to work....

Ummm... I work for a big company, im not part of a union, and my company treats me well. On the flip side our shop which is union abuses the company I work for. They demand more and more yet produce less.

Just because a company is big, doesn't mean it walks on its employees. Plenty of companies take care of their employees. Most companies realize its to their benefit to treat their employees well. When moral drops so does profit!

 

[SpooledupRacing]

Third, if you think GM builds shitbuckets you haven't been in one of their newly designed products, they're on par or better than the jap stuff..

you mean HOLDEN right??





yeah.. thats right... NOT US GM!

GM cars are STILL s*** turds.. they feel like they are driving on jello, they get bad gas mileage, they sell for to damn much still and have more useless amenities then I can think of.

I say just let GM DIE! They have yet to prove themselves in the last I don't know 10-15 years that they can compete.. yet they keep forking over million dollar bonuses to those who keep pushing the company down the shitter.

IN NO WAY! does a GM car compare to any JAPANESE car.

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

in theory, yes maybe, but in practice no... unions got greedy. they were formed initial to prevent job loss. However, once they were formed they realized they couldn't be fired. Then demanded more money or they would go on strike.(because they couldn't get fired) and got more money. The big three had there hands tied. in a round about way.

That is simply not true. Unions were formed because of unfair work practices by employers. Unions were very much responsible for a good portion of GM/Ford and Chryslers success in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Problem started when contract negotiations were about money, not just for the employee but for the Union itself. We also now have laws in place protecting the worker and his/her job therefore not needing a unionized work force.

 

[jred321]

if the government is a stakeholder in GM don't they want them to be as profitable as possible to earn the biggest ROI they can? if the gov't gets a 100% return on their investment i would imagine the company as a whole will benefit either through reduced taxes or increased services. until that happens though the gov't is just throwing money away according to most people.

and as far as manufacturing jobs if GM makes products worth selling and prices are dropped due to cheap manufacturing rates there are going to be more jobs in other places to make up for it. the US is the largest consumer of autos in the world. sure maybe they won't have a job bolting doors onto the crapalier anymore and hell maybe they even have to move to a port to help offload cars from boats but that's what happens. times change. deal with it and move on.

 

[Dave@Accolade]

Move to China, They have already been there, they are ramping up production now!

 

[Peter B]

Im not against sending jobs over seas. I actually did a study on this for a class in college. Outsourcing jobs over seas, hurts at first, but often creates more jobs for us long term, often better, more high tech/new tech/trend jobs.

I am pissed about this however because the point in bailing them out was to keep all those americans from loosing their jobs and having the whole economy completely crash. Which is bulls*** but thats beside the point. If GM were to pick up shop and move to China, they would be putting all those americans out a job, at least for now, causing the same horrible economic crash anyway. If they are going to do that, fine, then take back the money, let them fail and use that 15 billion for something else.

GIVE IT OUT AS GOVERNMENT LOANS TO START NEW COMPANIES W/OUT D-BAG CEOs!!!

 

[daonly1around]

some of you don't get it... if this goes through, teh GOV't will have majority ownership 70%... they won't let the jobs go over sees. the people in charge of GM will no longer be in charge. the gov't will be... which in itself is a topic all its own...