thinking XEDE not worth it

[justhavnfun]

Look at it this way. I have a low 13 second car, and I had to spend $50K canadian to get it there. (Inc. price of car.) The MS6 with mods is a bargain.

ok you hooked me. what was the price of the car?! 50k you could have bought a 08' evo. a vette, the options are endless. maybe you just enjoy working on cars all the time. well what ever, you didn't borrow the money from me as long as you're happy with what you have. me personally i would have spent the money different but thats just me.

 

[justhavnfun]

That is small $$ for the increase he got. I know I spent more $$ on my eclipse than that and wasn't anywhere near his numbers.

well there you go. a potential customer! i know there are people out there that will buy this system no matter what the price.even if it was $2000.00. to prove my point, and as you said you've paid more for less return. i've seen guys dump thousands of dollars into cars. they weren't much faster than what they started with. but they had fun turning wrenches on it. no harm in that.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

ok you hooked me. what was the price of the car?! 50k you could have bought a 08' evo. a vette, the options are endless. maybe you just enjoy working on cars all the time. well what ever, you didn't borrow the money from me as long as you're happy with what you have. me personally i would have spent the money different but thats just me.

Oh ya man totally, but $10K alone for 2 built motors, built tranny, ICE, pretty much every part made for the Protege I have... Believe me, at the time it doesn't seem to add up until the end when ya, I could have bought an Evo or STi, even a TL type S...

 

[MS3ICA]

dude your off on the seconds!!! a good luxery car does 6 1/2 to 60 af half a seconf is a huge deal in the qurtewr or to 60!!! it takes 50 to a 100 hp to makes that diff, and some performance cars cost 3 times as much to get that performance!!!!!! so you are not thinkiing clearly!!!!!

 

[funkyman]

The Exede true worth is 699 i believe.Its not even pnp,but a basic stand alone like system that slightly alters boost levels and air to fuel ratios,because its the only way to gain power and 700usd for a stand alone and/or ain`t cheap even retail.This is a Mazda not an E46.

 

[Haltech]

The Exede true worth is 699 i believe.Its not even pnp,but a basic stand alone like system that slightly alters boost levels and air to fuel ratios,because its the only way to gain power and 700usd for a stand alone and/or ain`t cheap even retail.This is a Mazda not an E46.

E46 may be cheaper, like under $500, but E92's are up there... 335i anyone?

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/subcategory_detail.asp?modelcode=E92&subcat_id=20

Sad thing, this is a reflash, you dont have control of any parameter changes and, its only 40HP...

Stand alone for the Mazda is a good value guys.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

not at $1000 bones.

the cobb ap will be priced around $699 + $199 for tuning software
and
the CPE Standback will $699

both are PNP's. Both control boost and the Throttle plate.

And the XEDE doesn't !!!

 

[gr3y]

not at $1000 bones.

the cobb ap will be priced around $699 + $199 for tuning software
and
the CPE Standback will $699

both are PNP's. Both control boost and the Throttle plate.

And the XEDE doesn't !!!

"will be"

i'm not going one way or another.. and until the harness is out it's pretty much just going to be people slinging mud.

 

[Nate731]

i agree and understand the faster the time the more hp is needed. i have been toying with superchargers since the 90's. all i'm saying is the amount of money you have to spend to propell this car (ms3) to mid 13's isn't worth it for me. and yes domestic trucks are under tuned but has nothing to do with them being diesiles. its their induction system the programs are altering. fuel pressure, wastegates,timing, line pressure. if they made a gas turbo truck i guarantee you there would be a silly tune for it within a few months producing crazy amounts of torque and hp. actualy they do chevy's 8.1 with a whipple supercharger kit. its silly!

I get understand where you're coming from, but I think you're missing the big picture. It's ALL about potential. At 263hp the MS3 is near the top of it's realistic potential for 2.3L. It's those kits for the trucks that are needed to get closer to the their max potential. A v8 (Gas or Diesel) just by default will have a GREAT deal more more torque off-idle and therefore doesn't NEED any additional power adders to get it moving down the road at a decent clip. Engines are designed for specific needs, NOT always for max potential. Why isn't there a Turbo-powered Gas v8 in any trucks? No need for it. Gasoline burns so much faster and produces a bigger bang than diesel, so it is much more efficient. Diesel, on the other hand, burns slower and to artificially speed that up, the compression ratios in diesel engines are typically twice that of most gas engines (20:1 or greater). Why are there turbo-powered Diesel trucks? The turbo's make diesel engines MUCH more efficient by increasing hp levels into a much more useful range. Older non turbo engines were like Gas v8's in the late 70's/early 80's: the torque was there but VERY little hp. They have power off the line but run out of breath WAAAAY early. In the diesel world the addition of a turbo makes a world of difference in both drivability and fuel economy.

 

[Nate731]

Acually our car is NOT tuned very well from the factory.There is no power after 5.5 rpm and we redline at 6.5.It runs super rich and our boost is limited in 1st and 2nd gear.I think most of us have always wanted more Hp but the auto makers didnt want to give us any Hp in most of the 80s and 90s for some reason,Im glad they woke up.

Point taken, I probably should not have said "tuned well". That should have been something to the effect of "tuned higher". Mazda REALLY needs to take lessons from Audi for a nice factory turbo tune.

 

[Nutari]

not at $1000 bones.

the cobb ap will be priced around $699 + $199 for tuning software
and
the CPE Standback will $699

both are PNP's. Both control boost and the Throttle plate.

And the XEDE doesn't !!!

Im sorry. The CPE standback is not PNP and the cobb AP still doesnt exist.

XEDE will be PNP soon.

 

[ragindark]

so total he spent $2550.00+ and improved his time from stock by 1 second and 2/tenths of a second.

By comparison, my old car was a 1998 Honda Accord V6 automatic that had a stock 0-60 time of 7.8 and a 1/4 mile time of 16.1.

I added an AEM CAI for about $300, a Venom 400 computer for about $300, and a Thermal R & D exhaust for about $600 and my 0-60 dropped to 6.8 and my 1/4 mile time dropped to 15.1 @ 96 mph. So I dropped one second for about $1200.

The difference is that I spent 25K for my old Accord plus $1200 in upgrades and about 25k for my Mazdaspeed 3 with the Mazda CAI installed but my Mazda would blow my old Accord off the road in performance.

 

[desperado-c]

....

The Mazda MS's are already VERY well tuned from the factory. Right out of the factory door, the 2.3T STARTS just shy of 2hp/ci (WITH a warranty (drive)). That would have been unheard of for a stock vehicle under $100k 5 years ago. Think about a Corvette Z06 @ just shy of 2hp/ci. That's close to 800hp, that whould be pretty crazy. Now, we're ALL speed junkies and horsepower is like crack to us, so we always want more. Just keep in mind that when you start near the top of your potential, you have to INCREASE the potential before it gets easy to build up to it.

Thanks for adding some context added around the issue. The MS3 sets the new stock baseline pretty high, as the Z06 comparison so nicely shows. The MS3 breaks new ground in affordable, liveable hp and has gotten people's expectations way out of line compared to what is reasonable. If we want to continue to be functioning hp addicts and not be ruined by our addiction, we might have to lower our expectations a little.

 

[knowledge007]

I do agree that 1k for a tuning solution is way out of line. I personally need a tuning solution but also don't want to cut into factory wiring. But in the long run if I do throw another CEL then I will be leaning towards the CP-E standback.

 

[SwampAss]

$1000 is a little steep but as mentioned in the TWM short shifter thread, the cost of development is probably higher due to the limited number of MS3s out there. The cost can not be spread out as far over a greater number of cars.

On a side note, my GIAC remap was $799 with 2 maps. There's a s*** load of 1.8T VWs out there.

$1000 is a touch steep, but in the grand scheme of things not so bad. Esp when it allows you to tune it. That's not something you can do with mapping I had for my GTI.

 

[StephanieT]

The Xede has a few safety features and a few that can be integrated. That said once you have a properly tuned car, those safety features should not be needed. The Xede does not loose it's maps so a backup fuel or timing map is not needed. If something is grossly out of range with the tuning, the stock ECU can still go into limp mode.

A "safety feature" for fueling is the wideband integration. While not completely finished, it is almost done. Basically, if the car stays in the "happy zone" of a nested map, then no modifications are made. If the wideband registers a lean spot in a rpm range, it will add fuel. The fuel addition is instant and once the wideband AFR has returned to normal the Xede stops adding fuel. The wideband would have to be a permanent install.

The Xede has a Boost solenoid output. It can control an electronic boost solenoid.

The Xede also has a Knock Sensor input. Thru a nested map, if knock is detected, it can retard additional timing. The MSM Xedes used to come with a knock buffer wired in the harness, and this is something we will be adding back in as well. It is not needed, but most people feel safer with it there.

The Xede also has two additional Analog Inputs and Outputs. With any input variable, along with an RPM variable, maps can be created to make adjustments for whatever you choose. For example, boost can be altered via a lean or rich condition, or any sensor temperatures. It is not always recommend, but it can be done.

It also has inputs for a shift light, an external LED, TPS control, and a Dual Map switch. Switching between maps can be done 'on the fly'.

The Xede is also OBD II compatible. Once the car is started and Xede has been activated, it is in complete control of timing, fuel, boost, and O2 sensor offsets. Since the stock ECU is still retained, cold start, OBD II, emissions, and low speed drive ability are just as Mazda intended.
Stephanie

 

[funkyman]

Well you donuts What about this 2.0 liter engine DI Turbo from Chevy do they need lessons.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=117546


I personally think ESS could tune the stock ECU without any piggy`s.They are masters at cracking ECU codes etc.Sweedish engineering.

 

[funkyman]

$1000 is a little steep but as mentioned in the TWM short shifter thread, the cost of development is probably higher due to the limited number of MS3s out there. The cost can not be spread out as far over a greater number of cars.

On a side note, my GIAC remap was $799 with 2 maps. There's a s*** load of 1.8T VWs out there.

$1000 is a touch steep, but in the grand scheme of things not so bad. Esp when it allows you to tune it. That's not something you can do with mapping I had for my GTI.

Steep is putting it lightly its a rip off,good luck mate.I could get a custom tune for that probably from AA Miami FL.

 

[SwampAss]

The Xede has a few safety features and a few that can be integrated. That said once you have a properly tuned car, those safety features should not be needed. The Xede does not loose it's maps so a backup fuel or timing map is not needed. If something is grossly out of range with the tuning, the stock ECU can still go into limp mode.

A "safety feature" for fueling is the wideband integration. While not completely finished, it is almost done. Basically, if the car stays in the "happy zone" of a nested map, then no modifications are made. If the wideband registers a lean spot in a rpm range, it will add fuel. The fuel addition is instant and once the wideband AFR has returned to normal the Xede stops adding fuel. The wideband would have to be a permanent install.

The Xede has a Boost solenoid output. It can control an electronic boost solenoid.

The Xede also has a Knock Sensor input. Thru a nested map, if knock is detected, it can retard additional timing. The MSM Xedes used to come with a knock buffer wired in the harness, and this is something we will be adding back in as well. It is not needed, but most people feel safer with it there.

The Xede also has two additional Analog Inputs and Outputs. With any input variable, along with an RPM variable, maps can be created to make adjustments for whatever you choose. For example, boost can be altered via a lean or rich condition, or any sensor temperatures. It is not always recommend, but it can be done.

It also has inputs for a shift light, an external LED, TPS control, and a Dual Map switch. Switching between maps can be done 'on the fly'.

The Xede is also OBD II compatible. Once the car is started and Xede has been activated, it is in complete control of timing, fuel, boost, and O2 sensor offsets. Since the stock ECU is still retained, cold start, OBD II, emissions, and low speed drive ability are just as Mazda intended.
Stephanie

All of which are awesome features. Features few will sample until it's PnP.

 

[knowledge007]

The Xede has a few safety features and a few that can be integrated. That said once you have a properly tuned car, those safety features should not be needed. The Xede does not loose it's maps so a backup fuel or timing map is not needed. If something is grossly out of range with the tuning, the stock ECU can still go into limp mode.

A "safety feature" for fueling is the wideband integration. While not completely finished, it is almost done. Basically, if the car stays in the "happy zone" of a nested map, then no modifications are made. If the wideband registers a lean spot in a rpm range, it will add fuel. The fuel addition is instant and once the wideband AFR has returned to normal the Xede stops adding fuel. The wideband would have to be a permanent install.

The Xede has a Boost solenoid output. It can control an electronic boost solenoid.

The Xede also has a Knock Sensor input. Thru a nested map, if knock is detected, it can retard additional timing. The MSM Xedes used to come with a knock buffer wired in the harness, and this is something we will be adding back in as well. It is not needed, but most people feel safer with it there.

The Xede also has two additional Analog Inputs and Outputs. With any input variable, along with an RPM variable, maps can be created to make adjustments for whatever you choose. For example, boost can be altered via a lean or rich condition, or any sensor temperatures. It is not always recommend, but it can be done.

It also has inputs for a shift light, an external LED, TPS control, and a Dual Map switch. Switching between maps can be done 'on the fly'.

The Xede is also OBD II compatible. Once the car is started and Xede has been activated, it is in complete control of timing, fuel, boost, and O2 sensor offsets. Since the stock ECU is still retained, cold start, OBD II, emissions, and low speed drive ability are just as Mazda intended.
Stephanie

Yes and I think that is exactly what should come with a tuning solution. But still feel that a grand is to steep.