thinking XEDE not worth it

[justhavnfun]

i was reading a post from a moderator stating he was able get a mazdaspeed6 to run high 12's. he first installed a cpe intake and catback exhaust and ran a 13.9 1/4 mile. ok the car stock runs 14.1! so far he has $1000.00 into the car and only shaved 2/tenths of a second off his stock time?! thats not even noticeable.
then he added the xede piggyback system, another $1000.00. but he improved his time by a full second from stock. so now he has $2000.00 in this car.
last he adds a top mount intercooler and drops his time to 12.9. another $550.00. so total he spent $2550.00+ and improved his time from stock by 1 second and 2/tenths of a second.
now don't get me wrong. 12.9 is quick and definatly a noticable improvement but i'm not sure if its worth the money you shell out for it. also keep in mind, this was a mazdaspeed6. a all wheel drive car. the ms3 can't hook up like the ms6. i would be suprised if a ms3 with this setup could run a low 13 comparing to the ms6's results. if thats the case the money spent looks worse! over $2550.00 and MAYBE a full second improvement on the ms3?!
oh and did i mention the warranty? GONE! if i'm going to give up my warranty its going to be for more than a 1 second improvement!
ford and chevy make piggyback systems for their trucks and for $600.00 you're producing 100+ hp and silly amounts of torque. i know! thats not fair. mass production vehicle vs. limited production vehicle. but i think you get my point.
i'm not trying to talk anyone out of this system either. this is just MY opinion and what I'M going to do.
again, i'm not slamming this guy and what he's doing. its a step in the right direction but for now i think i'll wait till something better comes around, i am as anxious as everyone out there to see the full potential of this midget wagon.

 

[GoFast]

i have thought a lot about this as well. I agree with you as well. The big thing is the warranty issue to be honest as well as the cost. I don't think the grand is worth it. A bit more power would be nice, hell, who doesn't want more power, but i think it comes at too great of a cost to justify it.

 

[Nutari]

i was reading a post from a moderator stating he was able get a mazdaspeed6 to run high 12's. he first installed a cpe intake and catback exhaust and ran a 13.9 1/4 mile. ok the car stock runs 14.1! so far he has $1000.00 into the car and only shaved 2/tenths of a second off his stock time?! thats not even noticeable.
then he added the xede piggyback system, another $1000.00. but he improved his time by a full second from stock. so now he has $2000.00 in this car.
last he adds a top mount intercooler and drops his time to 12.9. another $550.00. so total he spent $2550.00+ and improved his time from stock by 1 second and 2/tenths of a second.
now don't get me wrong. 12.9 is quick and definatly a noticable improvement but i'm not sure if its worth the money you shell out for it. also keep in mind, this was a mazdaspeed6. a all wheel drive car. the ms3 can't hook up like the ms6. i would be suprised if a ms3 with this setup could run a low 13 comparing to the ms6's results. if thats the case the money spent looks worse! over $2550.00 and MAYBE a full second improvement on the ms3?!
oh and did i mention the warranty? GONE! if i'm going to give up my warranty its going to be for more than a 1 second improvement!
ford and chevy make piggyback systems for their trucks and for $600.00 you're producing 100+ hp and silly amounts of torque. i know! thats not fair. mass production vehicle vs. limited production vehicle. but i think you get my point.
i'm not trying to talk anyone out of this system either. this is just MY opinion and what I'M going to do.
again, i'm not slamming this guy and what he's doing. its a step in the right direction but for now i think i'll wait till something better comes around, i am as anxious as everyone out there to see the full potential of this midget wagon.

$1k for 50hp~ and 50~tq to the wheels.

Once you get up into the mid 13's, every 10th of a second more is exponentially harder to take off. just the fact that with the XEDE, he took off almost an entire second his 1/4 time is amazing.

 

[palerider]

$1k for 50hp~ and 50~tq to the wheels.

Once you get up into the mid 13's, every 10th of a second more is exponentially harder to take off. just the fact that with the XEDE, he took off almost an entire second his 1/4 time is amazing.

No kidding. This thread confuses me.

$1000 for CAI and CBE.... nets a couple tenths.
$550 for TMIC..... nets a tenth or two.
and
$1000 for Xede gives you a full second...!?!?

And the argument by the threadstarter is that the Xede is the worst bang for the buck?!?!

Truly in my opinion if I was going to spend only $1000, it would be on Xede and Xede alone. I dont see how you could see it any other way. It gives the greatest gain and it should be the first mod only because it would INCREASE all other following mods if you used it to tune.

What am I missing here?

BTW.... I have held off personally on all other mods, other than MS CAI, waiting on Xede PNP. Once I get the EMS.... the fun will begin.

 

[SwampAss]

I've all but written off the reflash/PnP stand alone. It's been 9 months and still nothing. Their are several threads from Jan and Feb stating they were *almost ready*.
I do not want to cut into a factory wiring harness (easy or not) to install a product.

I could have carved a factory mazda ECM harness plug out of wood at this point.

 

[chriscecc914]

if your worried about the warranty then why even think about modding your car? Im at about the $7000 mark on my speed6. when it runs it should be in the 11's 1/4 mile wise. Some cars just costs more then others to make fast. Plus I have the GT so its heavier.

 

[chriscecc914]

I've all but written off the reflash/PnP stand alone. It's been 9 months and still nothing. Their are several threads from Jan and Feb stating they were *almost ready*.
I do not want to cut into a factory wiring harness (easy or not) to install a product.

I could have carved a factory mazda ECM harness plug out of wood at this point.[/QUOTE]

(rofl)

 

[SharkDiver]

I've all but written off the reflash/PnP stand alone. It's been 9 months and still nothing. Their are several threads from Jan and Feb stating they were *almost ready*.
I do not want to cut into a factory wiring harness (easy or not) to install a product.

I could have carved a factory mazda ECM harness plug out of wood at this point.

You got that right.I dont think they are working on the product nearly as hard as they would like us all to baleave.Im guessing over there at cobb they have 1 guy that works on the ap for the ms3 1 day a month and 20 guys working everyday to get us more springs,cross bars and a bunch of other crap that we can already get.I know you guys are talking about XEDE but I wanted to vent a bit.

 

[SharkDiver]

if your worried about the warranty then why even think about modding your car? Im at about the $7000 mark on my speed6. when it runs it should be in the 11's 1/4 mile wise. Some cars just costs more then others to make fast. Plus I have the GT so its heavier.

You can mod your car without voiding the warranty.

 

[SwampAss]

I won't pretend to know how involved the manufacturing and testing of the product is. I am sure it's very tough. My complaint stems from the fact it's been held out like the proverbial carrot for so long.

(bird)

 

[Nate731]

i was reading a post from a moderator stating he was able get a mazdaspeed6 to run high 12's. he first installed a cpe intake and catback exhaust and ran a 13.9 1/4 mile. ok the car stock runs 14.1! so far he has $1000.00 into the car and only shaved 2/tenths of a second off his stock time?! thats not even noticeable.
then he added the xede piggyback system, another $1000.00. but he improved his time by a full second from stock. so now he has $2000.00 in this car.
last he adds a top mount intercooler and drops his time to 12.9. another $550.00. so total he spent $2550.00+ and improved his time from stock by 1 second and 2/tenths of a second.
now don't get me wrong. 12.9 is quick and definatly a noticable improvement but i'm not sure if its worth the money you shell out for it. also keep in mind, this was a mazdaspeed6. a all wheel drive car. the ms3 can't hook up like the ms6. i would be suprised if a ms3 with this setup could run a low 13 comparing to the ms6's results. if thats the case the money spent looks worse! over $2550.00 and MAYBE a full second improvement on the ms3?!
oh and did i mention the warranty? GONE! if i'm going to give up my warranty its going to be for more than a 1 second improvement!
ford and chevy make piggyback systems for their trucks and for $600.00 you're producing 100+ hp and silly amounts of torque. i know! thats not fair. mass production vehicle vs. limited production vehicle. but i think you get my point.
i'm not trying to talk anyone out of this system either. this is just MY opinion and what I'M going to do.
again, i'm not slamming this guy and what he's doing. its a step in the right direction but for now i think i'll wait till something better comes around, i am as anxious as everyone out there to see the full potential of this midget wagon.

Given the same FWD car, same launch and same weather, what's the average difference in power between a 16 second car and a 15 second car?
Maybe 30-50hp, right?

Given the same FWD car, same launch and same weather, what's the average difference in power between a 15 second car and a 14 second car?
Maybe 50-100hp, right?

As Nutari said, the faster your times are, the power needed to continually decrease those times ALSO increases exponentially.


As they said in Honda circles when I still had mine, "Want the best power mod available? Buy a v8 car..." Ultimately, "there is no replacement for displacement," although forced induction goes a LONG way to bring power levels up to the true potential. Also, Keep in mind the $600 chips you are seeing for the trucks are for DIESEL engines. Those are a whiole different ball game compared to Gas. At stock, they're also rediculously under-tuned from their true potential due to emmisions requirements. Have you ever seen one of those chipped trucks get on it? It's alike a frickin James Bond smoke screen.

The Mazda MS's are already VERY well tuned from the factory. Right out of the factory door, the 2.3T STARTS just shy of 2hp/ci (WITH a warranty (drive)). That would have been unheard of for a stock vehicle under $100k 5 years ago. Think about a Corvette Z06 @ just shy of 2hp/ci. That's close to 800hp, that whould be pretty crazy. Now, we're ALL speed junkies and horsepower is like crack to us, so we always want more. Just keep in mind that when you start near the top of your potential, you have to INCREASE the potential before it gets easy to build up to it.

 

[speed3shon]

also, that 14.1 stock isnt exactly a cakewalk... so unless he got that in his car with him driving, then dont use that as a baseline...

 

[justhavnfun]

$1k for 50hp~ and 50~tq to the wheels.

Once you get up into the mid 13's, every 10th of a second more is exponentially harder to take off. just the fact that with the XEDE, he took off almost an entire second his 1/4 time is amazing.

yeh but he didn't achieve that with the XEDE system alone. he had to spend
$1550.00 of ADDITIONAL parts to do that. also, you're not going to produce these numbers in a ms3. look, this car has a induction sytem on it thats capable of so much more. the question is can someone hack through MAZDA'S safeguards. i hope so!

 

[justhavnfun]

$1000 for Xede gives you a full second...!?!?

And the argument by the threadstarter is that the Xede is the worst bang for the buck?!?!

Truly in my opinion if I was going to spend only $1000, it would be on Xede and Xede alone. I dont see how you could see it any other way. It gives the greatest gain and it should be the first mod only because it would INCREASE all other following mods if you used it to tune.

again, the XEDE did not do this alone! he didn't install the XEDE on a stock car and shave a second off his 1/4 mile. if you think you're going to get these results on a ms3, you're going to be dissapointed.

 

[justhavnfun]

Given the same FWD car, same launch and same weather, what's the average difference in power between a 16 second car and a 15 second car?
Maybe 30-50hp, right?

Given the same FWD car, same launch and same weather, what's the average difference in power between a 15 second car and a 14 second car?
Maybe 50-100hp, right?

As Nutari said, the faster your times are, the power needed to continually decrease those times ALSO increases exponentially.

i agree and understand the faster the time the more hp is needed. i have been toying with superchargers since the 90's. all i'm saying is the amount of money you have to spend to propell this car (ms3) to mid 13's isn't worth it for me. and yes domestic trucks are under tuned but has nothing to do with them being diesiles. its their induction system the programs are altering. fuel pressure, wastegates,timing, line pressure. if they made a gas turbo truck i guarantee you there would be a silly tune for it within a few months producing crazy amounts of torque and hp. actualy they do chevy's 8.1 with a whipple supercharger kit. its silly!

 

[meha11]

again, the XEDE did not do this alone! he didn't install the XEDE on a stock car and shave a second off his 1/4 mile. if you think you're going to get these results on a ms3, you're going to be dissapointed.

manufactures site

http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages/products_MazdaSpeed3_parts.html

http://www.bellengineering.net/Pages/dyno_sheets.html

http://www.bellengineering.net/Images/Dyno/BEGi_MS3_stockandXede.jpg

Personally i have heard no bad reports of this on a MS3 and have no reason not to believe the claims, would like for anyone with one to comment openly rather than via PM, if it really is this good and i hope it is, people should spread the word.

EDIT- manufactures site

http://www.chiptorque.com.au/

link to review

http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_107793/article.html

 

[SharkDiver]

Given the same FWD car, same launch and same weather, what's the average difference in power between a 16 second car and a 15 second car?
Maybe 30-50hp, right?

Given the same FWD car, same launch and same weather, what's the average difference in power between a 15 second car and a 14 second car?
Maybe 50-100hp, right?

As Nutari said, the faster your times are, the power needed to continually decrease those times ALSO increases exponentially.


As they said in Honda circles when I still had mine, "Want the best power mod available? Buy a v8 car..." Ultimately, "there is no replacement for displacement," although forced induction goes a LONG way to bring power levels up to the true potential. Also, Keep in mind the $600 chips you are seeing for the trucks are for DIESEL engines. Those are a whiole different ball game compared to Gas. At stock, they're also rediculously under-tuned from their true potential due to emmisions requirements. Have you ever seen one of those chipped trucks get on it? It's alike a frickin James Bond smoke screen.

The Mazda MS's are already VERY well tuned from the factory. Right out of the factory door, the 2.3T STARTS just shy of 2hp/ci (WITH a warranty (drive)). That would have been unheard of for a stock vehicle under $100k 5 years ago. Think about a Corvette Z06 @ just shy of 2hp/ci. That's close to 800hp, that whould be pretty crazy. Now, we're ALL speed junkies and horsepower is like crack to us, so we always want more. Just keep in mind that when you start near the top of your potential, you have to INCREASE the potential before it gets easy to build up to it.

Acually our car is NOT tuned very well from the factory.There is no power after 5.5 rpm and we redline at 6.5.It runs super rich and our boost is limited in 1st and 2nd gear.I think most of us have always wanted more Hp but the auto makers didnt want to give us any Hp in most of the 80s and 90s for some reason,Im glad they woke up.

 

[Jays07MS3]

so total he spent $2550.00+ and improved his time from stock by 1 second and 2/tenths of a second.

That is not a lot of money at ALL to go from 14.1s to 12.9s. And all this on the stock turbo?!?!? That is small $$ for the increase he got. I know I spent more $$ on my eclipse than that and wasn't anywhere near his numbers.

For 12.9 @ 106mph, curb weight + driver ~ 3764lb his whp must be around 350hp (from hp calculators). I think I've seen stock ms6s make around 230hp. So 120hp for $2550 is not too bad IMO.

 

[Haltech]

Those are great gains for little money. I dont think some of you realize how expensive it is to shave 1 second off your ET. As noted, these cars are pigrich from the factory. There is a lot of power to be gained with a aftermarket system on there. If you could get some real sticky front tires on the MS3.. get full boost back from 1 & 2, custom tune of the entire car, add at least 1 cat delete or DP with a CAI, i wouldnt doubt that a mid 12 would be obtainable from these cars. I see people add power to cars/trucks all the time at the track however, they never bother to learn how to drive their vehicle with the mods. Instead, they get pissed off about their results.

We need to solve the traction problem first, than you will begin seeing some sick ETs.

Whether you choose an XEDE system or CPEs Standback, i think you will be very happy with the results.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Look at it this way. I have a low 13 second car, and I had to spend $50K canadian to get it there. (Inc. price of car.) The MS6 with mods is a bargain.