The Subaru Outback Wins

[Unobtanium]

What good is the Highlander's "V6 power" when the CX-5 accelerates more quickly? The Highlander wastes the extra power as the real world MPG figures show so, while it may have more power as measured in a laboratory, on the road the CX-5 is the faster vehicle.

Toyota Highlander, 2014, AWD:
C/D TEST RESULTS:

Zero to 60 mph: 7.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 20.1 sec
Zero to 110 mph: 25.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.5 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 4.1 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 4.7 sec
Standing -mile: 15.6 sec @ 91 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 114 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 186 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.80 g
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-toyota-highlander-awd-v-6-test-review


Mazda CX-5 2.5L AWD 2014
C/D TEST RESULTS:

Zero to 60 mph: 7.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 22.3 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.9 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.7 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 5.3 sec
Standing -mile: 15.8 sec @ 87 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 123 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 166 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.81 g*

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-mazda-cx-5-25-awd-test-review



Bottom line is that the Toyota Highlander would mush the snot out of the CX-5 in any acceleration contest. The real deal-closer here is the Highlander's 1/4 mile trap speed. The "observed" fuel economy isn't much different, either, although that kindof shocked me, and is very subjective (how did they drive each vehicle? Who knows). The Mazda's braking really destroys the Highlander, though. For the difference in acceleration, I'll take the more nimble Mazda.

Highlander:
EPA city/highway driving: 18/24 mpg
C/D observed: 19 mpg

CX-5:
EPA city/highway driving: 24/30 mpg
C/D observed: 21 mpg

 

[Unobtanium]

I think the difference boils down to Love vs Zoom-Zoom. Good marketing but there's a kernel of truth in each. We had 3 Sub's in a row, felt the Love. The jump in price to the 6 cylinder just never made sense to us...

Sub's stay with what they got. It's fine, works great, reliable. Some new stuff to comply with gov't cafe regs, CVT for instance. Gotta love your Sub, they'll send money to save the world if you buy one, pass it down to your kids, memories, etc...

Mazda is trying to carve a different path and the old hot-rod ideas plus some current ones (partial Atkinson Cycle) integrated in the Sky-Active drive train make good sense. I hate AT, but the double clutch 6spd works kinda cool, I like it. Gotta have some cajones to figure out 13:1 compression on regualr fuel, plus direct injection in a product for mass comsumption. Is it a risk? Maybe, but the difference bewteen Love and Zoom-Zoom is pretty noticable at the drivers seat and the pump. For some that's were it matters.

I continue to be amazed at what I learn about the tech in my CX-5. Mazda really impresses me.

 

[gettinlm]

Two other things I really like about the Outback that I forgot to mention:

1) You pretty much have to order them from the factory. You'd think this would be a negative, but I like knowing how in demand they are and that Subaru isn't overproducing them.

2) They are made in Indiana. To be honest, I'm not sure where the CX-5 is made, so this could be a moot point when comparing the two. However, it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know that the Outback is made in nearby (for me, anyway) Indiana.

Again, like I mentioned before, I am a huge fan of the CX-5. Just think that Subaru won us over, at least this time. Still might get a Mazda 6 in the next year or two to replace my wife's car.

 

[fdew]

I think the difference boils down to Love vs Zoom-Zoom. Good marketing but there's a kernel of truth in each. We had 3 Sub's in a row, felt the Love. The jump in price to the 6 cylinder just never made sense to us...

Sub's stay with what they got. It's fine, works great, reliable. Some new stuff to comply with gov't cafe regs, CVT for instance. Gotta love your Sub, they'll send money to save the world if you buy one, pass it down to your kids, memories, etc...

Mazda is trying to carve a different path and the old hot-rod ideas plus some current ones (partial Atkinson Cycle) integrated in the Sky-Active drive train make good sense. I hate AT, but the double clutch 6spd works kinda cool, I like it. Gotta have some cajones to figure out 13:1 compression on regular fuel, plus direct injection in a product for mass consumption. Is it a risk? Maybe, but the difference between Love and Zoom-Zoom is pretty noticeable at the drivers seat and the pump. For some that's were it matters.

You NAILED it.

Zoom Zoom

 

[Unobtanium]

Two other things I really like about the Outback that I forgot to mention:

1) You pretty much have to order them from the factory. You'd think this would be a negative, but I like knowing how in demand they are and that Subaru isn't overproducing them.
I have seen the R's for sale on Autotrader for cheap. I'd not necessarily say they are a hot commodity. Also, I know Nissan builds cars in batches, not like GM, etc. so yeah, getting what you want is tough when you want it at times from Japan, but at the end of the model year, all of them DO make it over, and they aren't rare anymore really.

2) They are made in Indiana. To be honest, I'm not sure where the CX-5 is made, so this could be a moot point when comparing the two. However, it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling to know that the Outback is made in nearby (for me, anyway) Indiana.
After owning a Jeep, it doesn't do anything of the sort for me. They are made in Japan. Japanese work ethic is...impressive.

Again, like I mentioned before, I am a huge fan of the CX-5. Just think that Subaru won us over, at least this time. Still might get a Mazda 6 in the next year or two to replace my wife's car.

I would have gone turbo forester, but that's just me.

 

[gettinlm]

The 3.6R is a hard find right now, not sure how you drew that conclusion. It would be pretty difficult to find a brand new 2015 3.6R now, as they have ceased orders for the 2015 model and will be moving on to 2016 in July. I think there are 3 in the entire city (and suburbs) of St. Louis right now, spread over 4 dealerships. If you have particular options and colors in mind, you really have to order one to get what you want.

 

[gettinlm]

Oh, and my liking that the Outbacks are built in Indiana has NOTHING to do with build quality. I think the Japanese and Germans make exceptional cars. It has more to do with my liking the idea of employing small-town Indiana folk and helping their economy. Cheesy, yes, but still somewhat comforting!

 

[zergal]

LOL. I keep hearing this. If I'm deciding between two vehicles, then they are compare-able (not necessarily comparable, which means similar or equal). I can compare a Tahoe and a Mini Cooper. The Tahoe is bigger. Boom, easy peasy.

A bicycle gets better MPG than the mini cooper. Boom, better vehicle.

 

[gettinlm]

A bicycle gets better MPG than the mini cooper. Boom, better vehicle.

Haha, I see your point, but I'm afraid it's not that easy. Why would better mpg automatically mean a better vehicle? What is the difference in MPG? What are you getting in exchange for decreased MPG? Comparing vehicles requires so much more than just line item spec readings. But my point is that you can compare a bicycle to a mini cooper if you wish, and if you wanted to make a thread discussing the comparison, that's your prerogative. Just don't tell me I can't compare two vehicles when I've already done just that.

 

[Unobtanium]

The 3.6R is a hard find right now, not sure how you drew that conclusion. It would be pretty difficult to find a brand new 2015 3.6R now, as they have ceased orders for the 2015 model and will be moving on to 2016 in July. I think there are 3 in the entire city (and suburbs) of St. Louis right now, spread over 4 dealerships. If you have particular options and colors in mind, you really have to order one to get what you want.

I look nationally when I buy a new car. For example, when I bought my 370Z, I searched the entire US. It took 3 months to find one that was not sold before arrival. It was several states away.

 

[yugrus]

I hate AT, but the double clutch 6spd works kinda cool, I like it.

This is not double-clutch AT. It behaves similarly at higher speeds though. It is till has the torque converter, albeit small and efficient, for lower speeds. And it has an over-sized clutch that works at high speeds, where the torque converter is locked almost all the time. Very efficient and smooth, without the drawbacks of the double-clutch transmissions.

 

[iced_theater]

I hate AT, but the double clutch 6spd works kinda cool, I like it.

"Granny shifting, not double-clutching like you should." (whistle)

 

[old-school]

This is not double-clutch AT. It behaves similarly at higher speeds though. It is till has the torque converter, albeit small and efficient, for lower speeds. And it has an over-sized clutch that works at high speeds, where the torque converter is locked almost all the time. Very efficient and smooth, without the drawbacks of the double-clutch transmissions.

yugrus:

Thanks for squaring the circle. Of course you're right.

 

[Kedis82ZE8]

I look nationally when I buy a new car. For example, when I bought my 370Z, I searched the entire US. It took 3 months to find one that was not sold before arrival. It was several states away.

OT: What year 370z did you have? Did they still require the Ester oil?

 

[Unobtanium]

OT: What year 370z did you have? Did they still require the Ester oil?

2012. They all "require" ester oil. But let me shed some light on that.

The 370Z has a lot of coatings in the motor. Coatings were/are a huge thing, and the 370Z was/is kindof a test-bed for new technology, as was the GT-R. The main thing the GT-R got was Ford's plasma-deposited cylinder lining. The main things the 370Z got were coatings, and advanced VVT. It's got a torque curve as flat as a table-top from just off idle to just off redline, as a result, and pumps out nearly 350bhp from a 3.7L mill. Not shabby!

Anyway, part of this valve magic involves a bit of harshness, and so they wanted to cut down on friction and wear. So, they used a "DLC" or "PVD" type coating on some of the rotating assembly. There are no cams in a VQ37 motor. Each valve is lifted by its own actuator. Again...NO CAMS. So, like I said, some mechanical harshness was involved. Coatings were used to cut down on wear/friction. These coatings are somewhat difficult to get oil to stick to. If you've ever applied oil to an NiB bolt-carrier group on an M4, that's kinda sorta what I mean. Anyway, the Ester base stock, which really is just group V base stock, is a bit more tenacious at sticking to things. It lowers under-hood noise by 1-3dB or so when used in the VQ37 motor. And THAT is about it's sole use and purpose. I just ran Mobil 1 in my 370Z and it was just fine, motor-wise, at least, for the 33K miles I had it for.

*I would recommend the new Mustang GT, Camaro, Challenger, or even a damn Fiat 500 over a 370Z, though. It just sucked as a vehicle in general, and especially a sports car. Pogo-bouncy suspension, no rebound control, horrible mileage (worse than my Z06), mechanical problems, very poor transmission/shifting feel/grinding in cold weather/etc., on and on and on....but the V6 was a legitimately powerful motor for its size! Not for the fuel it sucked, but for it's displacement, lol

 

[yrwei52]

It would be pretty difficult to find a brand new 2015 3.6R now, as they have ceased orders for the 2015 model and will be moving on to 2016 in July.

Subaru's H6 is old horizontally opposed 6 Boxer unfortunately it couldn't keep up the competition with other V6's. Not to mention Subaru seems unable to resolve the naturally inherited oil burning issue from Boxers. CVT's longevity is always questionable as people have seen too many failures on Nissan's CVT and class-action lawsuit on CVT against Audi. Both automakers were the pioneers of using CVT in recent years.

2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited

• 3.6L DOHC 24-Valve H6 Boxer 256hp@6,000rpm | 247lb-ft@4,400rpm
• Lineartronic HCVT(High-Torque Continuously Variable Transmission) with Adaptive Control, Hill Holder and 6-speed manual mode with paddle shifters
• Subaru Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive with Active Torque Vectoring and X-MODE
• EPA fuel economy (city/highway) AWD: 20/27mpg

2015 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring AWD

• 3.7L DOHC 24-Valve V6 273hp@6,250rpm | 270lb-ft@4,250rpm
• 6-Speed Sport automatic transmission with sport-shift mode
• Active Torque Split All-Wheel Drive
• EPA fuel economy (city/highway) AWD: 16/22mpg

2015 Toyota Highlander Limited AWD

• 3.5L DOHC 24-Valve VVT-i V6 270hp@6,200rpm | 248lb-ft@4,700rpm
• 6-Speed Electronically Controlled Automatic Transmission with intelligence (ECT-i), sequential shift mode and Snow Mode
• Dynamic Torque-Control All-Wheel Drive
• EPA fuel economy (city/highway) AWD: 18/24mpg

2015 Honda Pilot 4WD Touring

• 3.5L SOHC 24-Valve i-VTEC V6 with Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) 250hp@5,700rpm | 253lb-ft@4,800rpm
• 5-Speed Automatic Transmission with Heavy-Duty Automatic-Transmission-Fluid Cooler
• Variable Torque Management 4-Wheel Drive System (VTM-4)
• EPA fuel economy (city/highway) 4WD: 20/25mpg

And looks like Mazda CX-9 is another good candidate with V6 power, bigger space, and the best handling in the class! (whistle)

 

[Unobtanium]

^At a 5mpg deficit.

 

[DG_1234]

A CX-5 with four cylinders likely "feels" as powerful as a CX-9 with six cylinders. Size of the vehicle (relative to engine power) matters.

 

[Unobtanium]

Oh, and my liking that the Outbacks are built in Indiana has NOTHING to do with build quality. I think the Japanese and Germans make exceptional cars. It has more to do with my liking the idea of employing small-town Indiana folk and helping their economy. Cheesy, yes, but still somewhat comforting!

It's not cheesy at all. I toured Bowling Green while my corvette was built, and met a lot of those type of people. Shaking their hands and talking to them and having them thank you over and over for buying a car from "them" put such a different spin on "those dirty greedy union workers..." that you constantly heard about during the GM "Bail-out" (which, really, helped every auto maker in the US).

 

[gettinlm]

Subaru's H6 is old horizontally opposed 6 Boxer unfortunately it couldn't keep up the competition with other V6's. Not to mention Subaru seems unable to resolve the naturally inherited oil burning issue from Boxers. CVT's longevity is always questionable as people have seen too many failures on Nissan's CVT and class-action lawsuit on CVT against Audi. Both automakers were the pioneers of using CVT in recent years.

2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited

• 3.6L DOHC 24-Valve H6 Boxer 256hp@6,000rpm | 247lb-ft@4,400rpm
• Lineartronic HCVT(High-Torque Continuously Variable Transmission) with Adaptive Control, Hill Holder and 6-speed manual mode with paddle shifters
• Subaru Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive with Active Torque Vectoring and X-MODE
• EPA fuel economy (city/highway) AWD: 20/27mpg

2015 Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring AWD

• 3.7L DOHC 24-Valve V6 273hp@6,250rpm | 270lb-ft@4,250rpm
• 6-Speed Sport automatic transmission with sport-shift mode
• Active Torque Split All-Wheel Drive
• EPA fuel economy (city/highway) AWD: 16/22mpg

2015 Toyota Highlander Limited AWD

• 3.5L DOHC 24-Valve VVT-i V6 270hp@6,200rpm | 248lb-ft@4,700rpm
• 6-Speed Electronically Controlled Automatic Transmission with intelligence (ECT-i), sequential shift mode and Snow Mode
• Dynamic Torque-Control All-Wheel Drive
• EPA fuel economy (city/highway) AWD: 18/24mpg

2015 Honda Pilot 4WD Touring

• 3.5L SOHC 24-Valve i-VTEC V6 with Variable Cylinder Management™ (VCM) 250hp@5,700rpm | 253lb-ft@4,800rpm
• 5-Speed Automatic Transmission with Heavy-Duty Automatic-Transmission-Fluid Cooler
• Variable Torque Management 4-Wheel Drive System (VTM-4)
• EPA fuel economy (city/highway) 4WD: 20/25mpg

And looks like Mazda CX-9 is another good candidate with V6 power, bigger space, and the best handling in the class! (whistle)

As I said before, we aren't interested in a 3rd row. It's just us two, for now.