The MS6 Build-a-Beast is coming very soon...(Pics)

[mrlilguy157]

You guys are all idiots.... I dominate all

In all seriousness though, the standback sucks and has very little headroom for tuning, in fact, it too is throwing in more variables creating more issues. I don't know details of the xede, but that unit tuned has dynod the most power to date IIRC. The ecu sees 18psi as a limit, a safety procaution. Just because plenty of flow for fuel is there and plenty of air for a potentially good tune, doesn't mean the ECU will withdrawal that limitation. The MAP must be clamped below 4.2ish volts, end of story. A new tuning method, other than piggyback, is preferred by all.

Peace

 

[laloosh]

Sorry you can't hold boost down low, but that's not my problem. It's not particularly good for a turbo anyway, so you're not really missing much. My e-01 doesn't spike, at all. It climbs quickly and platues where I set it, every time. I don't have any cables for my camera dude, and I've said that before. If you insist though, I'll tape it, take the cam to walgreens and pay em $20-30 or whatever to turn the tape into a dvd, and figure out how to get that on here. I'll have to wait until it gets that cold again here, but that shouldn't be too far off. If I do though, I want someone to reimburse me for the dvd, cause I shouldn't be having to go through this bulls*** just to keep you dips from talking s*** on me everytime I try to make a contribution.



Typical. You can't argue with those statements and facts, but you still have to throw in a last word of meaningless garbage. Seems a little familiar.

We should be trying to help Chris since he's the one w/o his car right now. That's why I was suggesting that. It might not work, but it might. No one's publically gone where he is right now, so we should all be working together to solve the problem. If you want to discuss how to trick the ecu to go without fuel cut, I'm game. But, if you're going to argue with me and treat me like some kid just because I did something to my car over a month ago that someone else told you was a bad idea, then piss off. It's not necessary and not particularly welcome.

Chris, Mrlilguy's answer is probably the best (safest) one to go with for now. Tune it to run good until there's something better out there. If you want to try to squeeze some power out of it anyway, give my suggestion a shot. Worst case scenario, you hit fuel cut. Frankly, I don't care what the hell you do with your car, but I sure as s*** would love to see you throw some impressive numbers up.

ok ill just post my video when my ic gets here.
intake/ic/tbe/upgraded up. hopefully it will hit past 18 and cut out.

As for my car, it never spiked either.

 

[dadasracecar]

You guys are all idiots.... I dominate all
In all seriousness though, the standback sucks and has very little headroom for tuning, in fact, it too is throwing in more variables creating more issues. I don't know details of the xede, but that unit tuned has dynod the most power to date IIRC. The ecu sees 18psi as a limit, a safety procaution. Just because plenty of flow for fuel is there and plenty of air for a potentially good tune, doesn't mean the ECU will withdrawal that limitation. The MAP must be clamped below 4.2ish volts, end of story. A new tuning method, other than piggyback, is preferred by all.
Peace

You're a douche. The XEDE has less capability than the Standback. In either case, they basically operate in the same fashion by altering the MAF and CPS voltages that the ecu sees so how does the Standback "throw in more variables creating more issues?"

 

[laloosh]

You're a douche. The XEDE has less capability than the Standback. In either case, they basically operate in the same fashion by altering the MAF and CPS voltages that the ecu sees so how does the Standback "throw in more variables creating more issues?"

i never saw xede but the standback doesnt do much dada. you gotta admitt it. im not saying this because i dont like cpe. i have said this since the day i installed it (before the whole cpe thing) its a safc and a boost controller put into one. once you turn up the boost, your a/f ratios depending on the weather are spot on anyways. The thing throws lean codes on some intakes for some reason and the thing DOES LEAN THE CAR OUT. my a/f ratios on a cold night at 15.1 psi were hovering around high 11s, all maps zeroed out. Took the thing off, running stock boost, 15-16psi till 6000 and guess what....im diping into the high 9s up top and mostly in the 10s after 4500. Too me thats beyond belief stupid. Also you never really want to add fuel with a piggyback system, this is what i've heard from respectable tuners. personally i have never added fuel with a piggy back untill this car.

 

[ATE BALLER]

Chris, is your car fuel cutting up top or down low? There's a discussion on the other forum conserning closed/open loop, and when it's actually transitioning. Some people who have logged said it's in open loop during accelleration, others are saying it's only during some accelleration. I'm wondering if it switches over when it starts to see boost, which would make sense since you don't always make boost when accellerating. The settings in the standback are only active during open loop, right? That might have something to do with it if your getting fuel cut down low. Up top though, there has to be a way to get it out.

 

[dadasracecar]

1. If the standback was only a safc and a boost controller how could it lean the car?
2. Your afrs stay good with increased boost b/c your still in closed loop and the ecu manages the fuel. Once you go into open loop you need a way to add fuel or remove it. That's when all piggyback tuners work and that's the major rub with piggybacks - they only work fully in open loop operation. The timing adjustment, otoh, works all of the time.
3. The standback does not "throw lean codes on some intakes." If you leave the fuel (MAFv) map alone the only thing affecting the fueling is the MAF housing and this is why "some intakes" may throw lean codes. ATP's housing is 3" and causes all sorts of issues b/c the stock is 2.75". Additionally, the speed3 has a very tight space for a CAI and it's likely that the intakes that your were referring to have enough bends to cause the airflow to be turbulent near the MAF. This will also result in cels.
4. I don't know why you're running richer with the bypass plug in or whatever you did to go back to stock but one theory might be that your boost is not coming on as fast as it would with the standback and b/c of this, the car has an easier time getting a handle on the parameters. I have no proof of this but my understanding from talking to Lou is that his PID boost control was faster and more efficient than the stock bc. I would speculate that this makes it come on faster.

I will say that there have been limited things we can do with the standback now but I believe they result from lack of hardware, i.e. fuel pumps, turbos, etc.
Here are my dyno graphs of stock, standback untuned, and the final Altered Atmosphere tune. You can see that my car actually got richer after installing the standback - which make no sense either btw. In any case the bone stock run was already pretty damn lean - though the afr was being measured at the tailpipe with stock cats but it certainly didn't get leaner with the standback installed.

 

[chriscecc914]

its cutting out up top. Im going to tell the tuner that the fuel cut voltage needs to be set lower. Apparently we thought that setting it higher would eliminate fuel cut because the maf wouldnt see voltage that high and therefor wouldnt cut fuel. Im still trying to understand everything and explain it to my tuner. Im also going to tell him that the boost clip needs to be set lower.

Do any of you think that running an MBC in conjunction with the cp-e ems is causing me these issues?

 

[dadasracecar]

Definitely take the mbc off. The boost clip psi is the map clamp on the standback. It's already lying to your ecu and telling it a boost value.

 

[laloosh]

1. If the standback was only a safc and a boost controller how could it lean the car?
2. Your afrs stay good with increased boost b/c your still in closed loop and the ecu manages the fuel. Once you go into open loop you need a way to add fuel or remove it. That's when all piggyback tuners work and that's the major rub with piggybacks - they only work fully in open loop operation. The timing adjustment, otoh, works all of the time.
3. The standback does not "throw lean codes on some intakes." If you leave the fuel (MAFv) map alone the only thing affecting the fueling is the MAF housing and this is why "some intakes" may throw lean codes. ATP's housing is 3" and causes all sorts of issues b/c the stock is 2.75". Additionally, the speed3 has a very tight space for a CAI and it's likely that the intakes that your were referring to have enough bends to cause the airflow to be turbulent near the MAF. This will also result in cels.
4. I don't know why you're running richer with the bypass plug in or whatever you did to go back to stock but one theory might be that your boost is not coming on as fast as it would with the standback and b/c of this, the car has an easier time getting a handle on the parameters. I have no proof of this but my understanding from talking to Lou is that his PID boost control was faster and more efficient than the stock bc. I would speculate that this makes it come on faster.

I will say that there have been limited things we can do with the standback now but I believe they result from lack of hardware, i.e. fuel pumps, turbos, etc.
Here are my dyno graphs of stock, standback untuned, and the final Altered Atmosphere tune. You can see that my car actually got richer after installing the standback - which make no sense either btw. In any case the bone stock run was already pretty damn lean - though the afr was being measured at the tailpipe with stock cats but it certainly didn't get leaner with the standback installed.

1. Cpe has yet to give any1 an answer to why their standback, with everything zeroed out, leans the car out.
2. Raised boost,18psi, needs very little to no fuel subtractions to begin with. Subtracting 2-3 percent of fuel after 5500 is not worth 640 dollars.
3. The standback does throw lean codes. Why dont these lean codes pop up without the standback? They only come on with the addition of the standback. somehow the standback leans the car out. Which is something i dont want. i want it to run stock fuel.
4. my ems is sold. The boost coming on has nothing to do with a/f ratios if u start the pull at 2500 and you a full 1.5-2 point richer at the same boost level after 4500rpm.

inconclusion, i dont like it, hence the reason its sold. every1 cpe ems car i have PERSONALLY seen has been running leaner since the standback....thats accounts for 3 of them. and i have heard of at least 2-3 more off these forums. To be that bogus.(enguard)
as for your tune. the green line is alot safer than running a/f above 12 utnill 4500 rpm. But hey its your car. Zoom Zoom boom my friend.

 

[Powerslave]

dude in theory thought if its just a tad leaner than stock woudlnt that make a little more power?.. ps i put my stock air box on for winter and no more isuues...

 

[laloosh]

dude in theory thought if its just a tad leaner than stock woudlnt that make a little more power?.. ps i put my stock air box on for winter and no more isuues...

tad leaner? my car wasnt a tad leaner according to my dashawk. 1.5-2.0 points leaner at the same boost level with everything zeroed out. All these people who tuned for 12.0 int he warm are going to be blowing up. Actually people that shall remain nameless in the 6 community have been calling me daily....full cpe car tune 12.0 went boom about 6 days ago.

im not trying to preach here.
Chris its your car, but if i were you i would leave the boost low untill a better tuning solution comes out. set it to 15-16, make sure its running 11.5 and leave it the hell alone.

 

[Powerslave]

man that sucks...

 

[nypest]

1. Cpe has yet to give any1 an answer to why their standback, with everything zeroed out, leans the car out.
2. Raised boost,18psi, needs very little to no fuel subtractions to begin with. Subtracting 2-3 percent of fuel after 5500 is not worth 640 dollars.
3. The standback does throw lean codes. Why dont these lean codes pop up without the standback? They only come on with the addition of the standback. somehow the standback leans the car out. Which is something i dont want. i want it to run stock fuel.
4. my ems is sold. The boost coming on has nothing to do with a/f ratios if u start the pull at 2500 and you a full 1.5-2 point richer at the same boost level after 4500rpm.

inconclusion, i dont like it, hence the reason its sold. every1 cpe ems car i have PERSONALLY seen has been running leaner since the standback....thats accounts for 3 of them. and i have heard of at least 2-3 more off these forums. To be that bogus.(enguard)
as for your tune. the green line is alot safer than running a/f above 12 utnill 4500 rpm. But hey its your car. Zoom Zoom boom my friend.

Some ppl always trying to ice skate up hill!!! Laloosh im surprised there isnt a hit out on you yet ........lol do you carry your swords with you all day ???

 

[SuperStretch18]

tad leaner? my car wasnt a tad leaner according to my dashawk. 1.5-2.0 points leaner at the same boost level with everything zeroed out. All these people who tuned for 12.0 int he warm are going to be blowing up. Actually people that shall remain nameless in the 6 community have been calling me daily....full cpe car tune 12.0 went boom about 6 days ago.

im not trying to preach here.
Chris its your car, but if i were you i would leave the boost low untill a better tuning solution comes out. set it to 15-16, make sure its running 11.5 and leave it the hell alone.

Not trying to get in the middle of this pissing contest, but I needed some clarification; are you saying that the base map for the standback has people running leaner? If so, then doesn't that mean it just needs a tune to add more fuel? I agree that 12.0 is too high for our cars, but if the system is adjustable (as it should be), you should be able to add fuel as necessary, right?

If someone tuned themselves for 12.0, whoops! If CPE tuned them for 12.0, double whoops! (peep)

Sorry if this has already been answered...

 

[laloosh]

Some ppl always trying to ice skate up hill!!! Laloosh im surprised there isnt a hit out on you yet ........lol do you carry your swords with you all day ???

people talk s*** on the internet, once they see me in person they're always my best friend.

 

[nypest]

people talk s*** on the internet, once they see me in person they're always my best friend.

Its that 6'5 shadow lmao(peep)

 

[laloosh]

Not trying to get in the middle of this pissing contest, but I needed some clarification; are you saying that the base map for the standback has people running leaner? If so, then doesn't that mean it just needs a tune to add more fuel? I agree that 12.0 is too high for our cars, but if the system is adjustable (as it should be), you should be able to add fuel as necessary, right?

If someone tuned themselves for 12.0, whoops! If CPE tuned them for 12.0, double whoops! (peep)

Sorry if this has already been answered...

adding fuel with the standback maxes out the stock fuel system. After thats upgraded, who knows. like i said i will talk to my friend more, adding fuel with a piggy back system everywhere is something you dont want to do. it just means your fuel system is to weak.

 

[mrlilguy157]

You're a douche. The XEDE has less capability than the Standback. In either case, they basically operate in the same fashion by altering the MAF and CPS voltages that the ecu sees so how does the Standback "throw in more variables creating more issues?"

You've never liked me from the beginning, and I'm not quite sure why I'm a douche, but i don't care. Anyone that knows me or has talked to me personally over the phone knows that I'm probably one of the most relaxed guys on this forum, and I'm full of laughs.

I also prefaced that I didn't know about the Xede, but it is the highest HP ms6 tuned to date on stock goodies.

tad leaner? my car wasnt a tad leaner according to my dashawk. 1.5-2.0 points leaner at the same boost level with everything zeroed out. All these people who tuned for 12.0 int he warm are going to be blowing up. Actually people that shall remain nameless in the 6 community have been calling me daily....full cpe car tune 12.0 went boom about 6 days ago.

im not trying to preach here.
Chris its your car, but if i were you i would leave the boost low untill a better tuning solution comes out. set it to 15-16, make sure its running 11.5 and leave it the hell alone.

I agree, I don't think the Standback is the right choice at this point when going big turbo. Hopefully Standback2 will be a considerable increase in usability and tuning capabilities. It's not a bad device, it tunes fuel and timing, but there should be no lean conditions when running a zero'd out map

From another forum about the standback:

Actually some cars tend to run leaner, and some run richer, believe it or not. Some of the earlier cars we tested ran slightly leaner (and when I say leaner, I mean by about +0.1:1 AFR), but we've recently seen cars that run the same down-low, but slightly richer up top. We attribute these changes to the sensitivity of the stock ECU. Luckily the lean/rich change is very slight, and it can be corrected with the fueling tables.

This post made me nervous. And obviously its more than +/- .1:1 AFR point leaner/richer, as seem by several other customers.

 

[dadasracecar]

1. Cpe has yet to give any1 an answer to why their standback, with everything zeroed out, leans the car out.
2. Raised boost,18psi, needs very little to no fuel subtractions to begin with. Subtracting 2-3 percent of fuel after 5500 is not worth 640 dollars.
3. The standback does throw lean codes. Why dont these lean codes pop up without the standback? They only come on with the addition of the standback. somehow the standback leans the car out. Which is something i dont want. i want it to run stock fuel.
4. my ems is sold. The boost coming on has nothing to do with a/f ratios if u start the pull at 2500 and you a full 1.5-2 point richer at the same boost level after 4500rpm.

inconclusion, i dont like it, hence the reason its sold. every1 cpe ems car i have PERSONALLY seen has been running leaner since the standback....thats accounts for 3 of them. and i have heard of at least 2-3 more off these forums. To be that bogus.(enguard)
as for your tune. the green line is alot safer than running a/f above 12 utnill 4500 rpm. But hey its your car. Zoom Zoom boom my friend.

CP-E hasn't "given any1 an answer to why their standback, with everything zeroed out, leans the car out" because it doesn't. My dyno just showed evidence that it doesn't. The green line is untuned with the standback in and boost set to 16 psi. The final tune is a little richer than the stock AFR. As for zoom zoom boom, the afr was measured after the two stock cats so it's going to look lean.

You say the standback makes the car run lean. I don't agree. I've shown anecdotal proof (one dyno) of my position. You've stated anecdotal proof (three described instances) of yours. We could argue ad nauseum. If you care to describe, I'd like to know what you think the standback is doing that results in the car being lean. My speculation is the lean codes have all come from cars with aftermarket intakes. I would also bet they are Cobb, ATP, Mazdaspeed/AEM intakes. If you'd like to try an experiment, put the standback on with a car pulling a lean code and go back to the stock airbox and see if it happens again.

I know you didn't like the standback and don't really like cp-e and that's fine with me. I respect you for your honesty about this and the fact that you share your knowledge with this and other forums. I bought a dashhawk based on your evaluation and results. Thank you.

 

[laloosh]

listen. The cars prior to the addition of the standback DO NOT THROW ANY CODES. Same mods, add the standback, BOOM lean code with nothing in the fueling or timing department changed. its all the proof i need. Cpe says just to add some points to the maf scaler, **** that, i dont want to, it shouldnt be running lean to begin with. Btw it doesnt happen with cobb or cpe intakes, it happens with the other ones. once again only AFTER the addition of the standback.

as for the dashhawk. it takes readings every .28m/s Thats accurate enough for me. hopefully you like yours.