The E-Blue Project

[trufanatic]

FIRST! im not taking a stabb at any vendor, im doing this on my own and all info and technical writeups will be distributed to the Mazdaspeed community. My take: Both the XEDE and the Standback are robust evolved "piggybacks" and all piggybacks work off the same principles.

So im taking my favorite piggyback that i've played with for like 6 years and applying it and all the tricks i've done with my past turbo cars to my ms3.

I'm setting up the greddy emanage to control fuel, boost and meth injection and later on with further testing and tuning timing if needed but i'll start with the top three first. I've done this with my grand fathers rb25det skyline and my mom's gti-r nissan sunny and it has worked like a charm on both cars so hopefully it will do the same with our MS3's.

Everything minus the meth injection will be in the car by end of month, im waiting on my boost solenoid and an extra harness to arrive.
My total grocery list right now including the price of the emanage, boost solenoid, map sensor and harness is right around 280$.

This is as far as i'll go for now. So, a $250 piggy back that can control fuel, boost, meth/alchol injection and timing and has been a proven application to around 500hp on many cars....any thoughts?

 

[3.slow]

do it, do it, do it!

 

[Dream]

Still waiting on Cobb.

 

[trufanatic]

Still waiting on Cobb.

unless i have an independent standalone or a permanent tested and tuned reflash from a vendor.....sorry im not screwing with the factory ECU directly.

 

[Dream]

unless i have an independent standalone or a permanent tested and tuned reflash from a vendor.....sorry im not screwing with the factory ECU.

People need to understand that they should get tuned with the Cobb a/p, the base maps they come with are super safe. You should always get tuned for your mods, at your elevation for your gas. Getting a custom tune should be a must. But go ahead with your standalone, let us know how it works.

 

[trufanatic]

People need to understand that they should get tuned with the Cobb a/p, the base maps they come with are super safe. You should always get tuned for your mods, at your elevation for your gas. Getting a custom tune should be a must. But go ahead with your standalone, let us know how it works.

its just a piggyback like many other things are, im doing it because its something i've used and tuned myself over and over again. i'll be distributing my maps and mod list thru the different stages of the project so people can either follow along and apply my maps for similar mods if they choose to take the same route.

 

[Demi]

People need to understand that they should get tuned with the Cobb a/p, the base maps they come with are super safe. You should always get tuned for your mods, at your elevation for your gas. Getting a custom tune should be a must. But go ahead with your standalone, let us know how it works.

Whats the Cobb a/p?

 

[Dream]

Cobb Accessport

 

[subparpunk03]

Big props to you for going with the E-Manage and trying something new. Definately keep us posted. Any thought on playing with the V-Manage too to mess around with the variable intake cam timing? Looks like it had some pretty decent results on an evo.

I thought about playing with this back in my VVTL-i days, but thats been put aside for a while.

 

[trufanatic]

Big props to you for going with the E-Manage and trying something new. Definately keep us posted. Any thought on playing with the V-Manage too to mess around with the variable intake cam timing? Looks like it had some pretty decent results on an evo.

I thought about playing with this back in my VVTL-i days, but thats been put aside for a while.

That has been a thought but this is all dependent on how well the ms3 will react to the emanage. The hardest part of this project will be using a 2-step boost solenoid from the typhoon which i've done before but not with this small of a turbo so gettin the boost under control and coming up with a base map will be the most difficult part of the project. With the meth injection i'll be using the VTEC map the emanage has built in to trigger the meth at whatever rpms range i see fit. Its kinda funny how you can manipulate the emanage using the built in maps for something totally different than they were designed for.

im trying to have it in by next weekend(12/13) with a slight tune in stock trim with stock boost and a CAI, i'll post the map and install pics and instructions... I PROMISE. On a bone stock srt-4 i was able to pull an extra 23whp just by subtracting fuel across the rpm range. So as rich as the ms3 runs i think i can come close to that, prolly 12-20whp if im lucky. Following week after doing some test and making sure the car is happy i'll drop in the GM boost solenoid and tune that(wish me luck) and i'll post that map also. probably going to aim for 18-19.5psi. If that proves to be successful im going to leave it there and get 3.5' core TMIC and a Downpipe. By summer if all is well and i dont get the itch for a bigger turbo i should be in the lower 300-320+whp mark on stock turbo.

 

[myms3]

good luck with your project. with the newer ecu's and smarter ones i don't dare try much like that anymore.

I had a emanage on my toyota matrix and after 2 weeks the stock ecu would notice and pull timing etc. to counteract the emanage thus making every zero. granted i could reset the ecu, but then all my tuning would be all messed up. for me i just took it out and said screw it im done. one reason i moved onto the ms3, more power and still space to haul stuff and people....

 

[3.slow]

Ya, that is what i was thinking. Modern computers re-learn and un-do tunes correct?

 

[Sierra117]

A buddy ofmine with an IS300 has an Emanage, and swears by it. Of course, IS300=/=MS3, and I still pull on him when we go to the track.

 

[3.slow]

His car is a 2jz without a turbo, if you didnt win on the track everyone here would laugh at you for losing to a high 15 second car.

 

[subparpunk03]

Some ECUs operate in two different modes, closed loop and open loop. Closed loop means that the ECU's will monitor things like an oxygen sensor or other post combustion sensors that give feedback to the ecu about what happened in the previous comustion process. The ECU can then change its parameters to 'adapt' This happens pretty frequently with a lot of piggyback style applications and its why a lot of people prefer a "reflash" or standalone.

HOWEVER. Open loop mode bypasses these extra sensors and in a car like the speed3 would rely solely on the PRE-combustion sensors, i.e. MAF, MAP, Fuel Pressure, etc. to determine how much fuel / timing / whatever to use. This is a much more predictable system, and really what piggybacks were designed for. The shortcomings of some piggybacks occur when they cannot distinguish between open and closed loop operation and thus try to apply a tune to constantly changing parameters. If its possible to keep things constant, then a piggyback can be a great tool, but if things keep changing, its just a pain in the butt cause you have to keep changing it.

I don't know about the MS3, but on my old 2zz corolla, I think we had a system that would run in closed loop mode when the throttle plate was <75% open or something like that, and open look when throttle plate was >=75% (essentially it was just open loop under WOT) As a result, the piggybacks caused a lot of people who went aftermarket turbo to explodify their engines since the ecu kept changing things around, however, people with bolt ons saw some great, consistent gains from the piggyback.

Judging by the gains people are seeing from the CP-E piggyback, you will probably have some decent success with the emanage unit.

Everyone feel free to correct me if any of my information is wrong, I'm just throwing out what I understand, and sometimes I don't understand so good.

 

[Sierra117]

His car is a 2jz without a turbo, if you didnt win on the track everyone here would laugh at you for losing to a high 15 second car.

They usually track low fifteens to fifteen flat. And his car is far from stock with an Emanage. But thats another story for another time in another thread.

[/hijack]

 

[Sierra117]

I don't know about the MS3, but on my old 2zz corolla, I think we had a system that would run in closed loop mode when the throttle plate was <75% open or something like that, and open look when throttle plate was >=75% (essentially it was just open loop under WOT)

I'm pretty sure this is how we work as well.

 

[naddie]

The only thing about stand-alone management is that they can't pass emissions because they aren't OBD-II compliant. Here in IL, if your car is suppose to have OBD-II and you don';t have it (ex: you replaced your ECU with a stand-alone), you automatically fail. If you throw a code, you fail.

 

[tjgunman]

either way i hope this guy has luck with his project because from what ive heard ANY of the newer mazdas really seem to hate Greddy's e-manage system, and have ended up going with Haltech, Unichip, Microtech etc.

 

[trufanatic]

either way i hope this guy has luck with his project because from what ive heard ANY of the newer mazdas really seem to hate Greddy's e-manage system, and have ended up going with Haltech, Unichip, Microtech etc.

i havent seen any of the turbo rx8's complain.