The clutch in the 2008.5 seems different

[ecniemann]

I've been shopping for my next car for the past few months. I started out test driving the MS3, then the VW GTI, BMW 328 & 335, Miata, all in stick shift. Then a few days ago, I drove another MS3. I think this time the transmission felt different:

1. the clutch travel seemed a little shorter, and the effort seemed lighter.
2. the shifter seemed to have a different resting position. I remember a few months ago, the shifter rested between 1st and 2nd gear, which was awkward to me. The new MS3 I drove had the standard resting position between 3rd and 4th gears, which is what I'm used to.

My guess is that the first car I drove was an early 2008, and now I drove the 2008.5. Can anyone confirm whether this is true? Or did I simply remember incorrectly?

Another question: When driving on the freeway, say cruising between 70-80mph, do you hear the exhaust hum? Is it annoying?

My current car is a Prius, and I'm rather bored with it. The only joy it gives me is when I fill up at the gas station. I'd rather spend more money on gas in order to enjoy my drive more.

The engagement of the clutch will vary car to car. There was a thread on this awhile ago. Mine engages very close to the top of the pedal travel, others have said their's engages closer to the bottom of the pedal travel. Others are somewhere in between. As far as softness, I do not know.

The stick should rest between 3 and 4, not 1 and 2. That car was probably beat on or something, but it should definitely be in the middle which is 3 and 4.

Exhaust was annoying to me at first. It seemed very loud until I replaced the stereo with my current set-up, in which case I no longer hear the exhaust or engine at all. This sometimes makes it hard to shift though, as going by sound is much easier than looking at the tach all the time. I find myself over-revving a lot in 1st and 2nd.

 

[tiagotiago]

Having had my car for almost a week, I can say that the clutch also felt really light compared to my previous car (2k new beetle). That said, it moves a lot quicker than the clutch in the bug, which I drove the other day and I felt the difference right away. I've driven sticks all my life and I find this car no more challenging to get used to than any other I've driven. Now, I really like the pedal feel, all of the 3 pedals are just right for me and I'm driving it as smoothly as I drove the bug.

In my particular case, I was more surprised with the increase in steering feel and the sensation of torque steer, which was new for me, but I feel I'm getting used to that too, at least it didn't bother me as much as it used to in my "sprited" drive last night. The clutch takeup in my car is also high, and the tranny stick rests in the normal position. The exhaust is not annoying at highway speeds, though I haven't done a really long stint in it, but it's drowned out with other noises/music.

Edit: Btw, my car is a week old 08.5

 

[shane02pro5]

The question was is there a difference between the new 08.5's I didn't see anyone even come close to tring to answer the question?

 

[ecniemann]

The question was is there a difference between the new 08.5's I didn't see anyone even come close to tring to answer the question?

I implied that the position of the stick in the one car was off/abnormal, but that clutch feel and position will always be different, even in same year models.

So therefore:

1. Stick should be between 3 and 4 in ANY year model MS3.

2. Clutch will vary slightly in EVERY car.

3. Exhaust IS annoying in every model MS3, IMO of course.

4. I do not know about hard/soft clutches, as this is my only manual. I have driven others, but a long time ago. I am unable to compare. From what others say, it should be soft in EVERY MS3 apparently.

 

[MS3077]

Pressing in the clutch of my MS3 is like doing a 100lb leg press each time

 

[LReyes66]

wwhat? its that heavy for you? its extremely light.... atleast compared to my old miata

 

[ecniemann]

Pressing in the clutch of my MS3 is like doing a 100lb leg press each time

OK, I retract #4 in my last post. Apparently it can be hard or soft, so...

4. Clutch is completely variable and normal that you (OP) experienced that.

 

[MS3077]

wwhat? its that heavy for you? its extremely light.... atleast compared to my old miata

Well compared to the 07' Civic si sedan I had this clutch is hella heavy. I wouldn't call it "light" Plus it engages too high ( I almost knee myself in the teeth whenever I release the clutch) Also, it's sort of hard to drive smoothly because of this. I still like driving the car though

 

[shane02pro5]

Sounds like my buddies 03 Mustang like riding a bicycle and rowing a boat at the same time!

 

[Mike240SX]

To the "exhaust at highway speeds" question...I don't notice it. In fact, with all the rattles and squeaks I do notice at low speeds, I don't notice a thing on highways even on bumpy roads. Don't even hear the exhaust with cruise control on.

Of course, that could be because the radio is always set at 12-15 (non-MP3-HU volume level) with ALC on 3.

 

[Uze DaFarce]

ecniemann - Our opinions differ so significantly, I would like to get more feedback from other very experienced MTX users. IMHO, it is highly more likely that the 08.5 has a completely different clutch from 07 or 08, than the same clutch is used throughout and set wildly different on each car. I think the OPs question of how the experiences of folks with different years (7,8,8.5) of ms3s could shed some light on the issue. When everyone ignores his question and just talks about the clutch without letting us know what year they have, it isn't really helpful data. Just lets us know the clutch is wierd for everyone, less wierd for some. I am not trying to be critical, I am honestly trying to make sure I am not way off base in my thinking.

I implied that the position of the stick in the one car was off/abnormal, but that clutch feel and position will always be different, even in same year models.

Slightly, sure. I disagree that the level of difference is normally present in the same make/model car and clutch. Hell in most cases, there isn't that much difference between the same make of car. I do agree that of the hundreds of MTXs I have driven, the MS3 clutch in my 08.5 is the most alien of any other car I have ever driven. Unfortunately, I have not driven an 08 or 07, so can't make a direct comparison.

So therefore:

1. Stick should be between 3 and 4 in ANY year model MS3.

2. Clutch will vary slightly in EVERY car.

Slightly is key to your point, but IMHO slightly has nothing to do with the OPs original question.

3. Exhaust IS annoying in every model MS3, IMO of course.

Compared with what? IMHO, I don't find it annoying at all, on long or short trips. Try taking a 10 hour drive in a S2K (or any other convertable), and come back and talk about annoying freeway noises.

4. I do not know about hard/soft clutches, as this is my only manual. I have driven others, but a long time ago. I am unable to compare. From what others say, it should be soft in EVERY MS3 apparently.

Others already pointed out that this is not the case. The dealership told me they changed the clutch sometime between the '07 and 08.5, but I take pretty much everything they say with a grain of salt.

 

[MS3077]

I've driven both a 08 (mine) as well as an 08.5 (super uniques) and noticed that his clutch seemed a little bit smoother and easier to engage. Perhaps it's because mine had 17k miles and his only had 4k. Overall though, not too different.

 

[hectik1]

Man the clutch pedal feels so soft compared to my old Evo.

 

[Hyun]

Everybody and their dog knows that when the car first came out, people here were posting about how they stalled on this car even tho they are experienced manual driver. People were complaining rough transmission, squishy shifter, stiff cluth at that time. They must have changed it on the newer model. All of this followed by engine dropping left and right and people getting their jaw dropped from the initial shock.

Good times..

 

[ecniemann]

ecniemann - Our opinions differ so significantly, I would like to get more feedback from other very experienced MTX users. IMHO, it is highly more likely that the 08.5 has a completely different clutch from 07 or 08, than the same clutch is used throughout and set wildly different on each car. I think the OPs question of how the experiences of folks with different years (7,8,8.5) of ms3s could shed some light on the issue. When everyone ignores his question and just talks about the clutch without letting us know what year they have, it isn't really helpful data. Just lets us know the clutch is wierd for everyone, less wierd for some. I am not trying to be critical, I am honestly trying to make sure I am not way off base in my thinking.



Slightly, sure. I disagree that the level of difference is normally present in the same make/model car and clutch. Hell in most cases, there isn't that much difference between the same make of car. I do agree that of the hundreds of MTXs I have driven, the MS3 clutch in my 08.5 is the most alien of any other car I have ever driven. Unfortunately, I have not driven an 08 or 07, so can't make a direct comparison.


Slightly is key to your point, but IMHO slightly has nothing to do with the OPs original question.


Compared with what? IMHO, I don't find it annoying at all, on long or short trips. Try taking a 10 hour drive in a S2K (or any other convertable), and come back and talk about annoying freeway noises.


Others already pointed out that this is not the case. The dealership told me they changed the clutch sometime between the '07 and 08.5, but I take pretty much everything they say with a grain of salt.

There are no facts in this thread, only opinion, and I stated mine. The OP can read it if he wants, if not, fine. The only fact may be that the stick should seat at rest in neutral between 3 and 4.

The discussion I referenced about the clutch in this car was when there were only 2007's, so they ARE very variable based only on other poster's descriptions. It does not mean they necessarily are. Can anyone verify a clutch change in 2008 or 2008.5? I have not heard of this personally.

The hard/soft description can only be verified by a force gauge. If you grew up driving muscle cars, this clutch will be soft by comparison. If you have only driven dandy base model 4 cylinders, then the clutch will feel hard by comparison. If you have driven 100's of these (why by the way?), then you know much better than I, or anyone else here, what feels normal or hard/soft.

As I already stated, exhaust is annoying IMO. I hate fart cans, and this borders on that sound, but it is tolerable. My car before this I could hardly hear running in park with the windows closed.

So all of this is my opinion, take it for what it is.

 

[Super Unique]

The clutch is definitely not a high point of the model. But it is still very light and soft clutch compared to the many different cars I have driven.

 

[Uze DaFarce]

I still think that it would be extremely helpful if folks commenting would post what year MS3 they are sharing experiences from, whenever they comment on the feel of the clutch.

 

[Uze DaFarce]

I have been searching for information about any hardware differences in the clutch between 07 & 08.5, but I haven't found anything thus far. I am beginning to think the dealer may have just been confused.

 

[Betelgeuse]

Personally, I think the transmission is hard to live with. I have owned several manual transmission cars, and I was able to drive them daily very smoothly with little effort. With the MS3, that is just not the case. It is not easy to drive smoothly when you are driving people around and just want to go easy. You have to really pay attention to drive it smoothly. When you test drive a car, you baby the clutch anyway and you never get a real feel for it.

This is my first manual and I drive it very smoothly, smooth to the point of getting compliments from passengers. One guy only noticed it was manual after looking at the shifter. I use the tach and sound of the exhaust as points of reference. For me, seat adjustment is extremely important. If it's too far back or far forward I have to compensate too much with the clutch. And I don't burn it either.

Miami's terrible traffic is well known and I have no issues with my left foot so the clutch is fine is terms of stiffness. About the only improvement I'd like to see is a slightly lower catch point.

 

[nextcar]

Thank you for all the comments so far. It's been helpful, and I can summarize in the following way:

1. The clutch probably has changed some time between 2007 and 2008.5, and probably for the better. The latest sample that I drove felt pretty good to me. The effort wasn't too heavy, and the travel wasn't too long. I just need to make sure that, when I'm ready to buy the ms3, that I do a long test drive to make sure I like that particular car. But I also agree with a previous post that the sample variation shouldn't be huge within 2008.5 ms3.

2. The resting position of the shifter between 1st and 2nd gears has not been experienced by anyone else on this forum. So, either that ms3 was actually broken, or I remembered another car brand.

3. Most people don't have a problem with the exhaust noise, meaning it's just a minor issue that's easily tolerated.

Well, I still really like the ms3. I like the taut handling, the practicality of a 4 door hatchback, and the turbo surge. Initially, I was set on getting the BMW 328, but I think the ms3 is more fun to drive. In the bimmer's favor is the fact that it's a more comfortable ride, more quiet, and the clutch is smoother. I don't really care about the BMW image either. I actually like the MS3's stealthy appearance. Finally, considering the $10k price advantage, I'll probably go with the ms3.