Synthetic oil a must??

I'd use either...

Mobil1 0w-20 SuperSyn, Redline 5w-20, 0w-30 German Castrol Synthetic, Amsoil 0w-30 Series 2000 Synthetic. Many 6 owners use the 0w-20 with good UOA's. (Even in very hot climates)

Remember one of the side benefits of a synthetic oil is increased gas mileage and hp. The increased mileage can sometimes pay for the additional cost of 4.70/qt. (4.78/qt at Advanced Autoparts/AutoZone).

This is of course ignoring all the other benefits of synthetic oils...which include...

Synthetic oil has no peer when it comes to predictable and consistent lubrication. Even if the basic lubrication qualities were the same, the characteristics of synthetic oil that insure reliable performance cannot be denied. Let's compare:

Molecular consistency:
Organic: Multiple molecular lengths
Synthetic: Molecular configuration uniform.

Why important: Lighter organic molecules tend to evaporate in the heat of the engine environment, eventually losing up to 25% of the volume. The loss of the shorter (and more volatile) length chains alters the original composition of the oil, affects its flow qualities and temperature rating. Synthetic oils are "designer molecules". There are no smaller chains with no tendancy to evaporate under heat (see flash point below).

Flash point:
Synthetic oil burns at almost twice the Ferenheit temperature as traditional oil. It remains consistent under extreme conditions with no degradation, thinning, boiling or evacation from bearing surfaces due to vaporization. Temperatures that would severely degrade traditional oil does not affect the lubrication qualities of synthetic. Jet aircraft engines will not run on standard oil. Synthetic is required. Race cars and other high performance engines used to use caster bean oil for its superior qualities. Synthetic has replace caster bean for high stress environments.

Saturation:
Traditional oils are poly-unsaturated while synthetic oils are fully saturated. Traditional oils will combine with crankcase polutants to form new and unpredictable molecular compounds, severely compromising the viscosity rating of the oil. Synthetic oil, being fully saturated (no open chain molecular sites able to bind with other organic compounds) and are not affected by the presense of pollutants, bypass gasses, fuel dilution, or water.

Consistency:
Traditional oils are treated with viscosity modifiers to produce the traditional variable viscosity ratings (example: 10W40). Synthetic oil is designed to be a particular rating by virtue of its molecular configuration. Usage does not modify its performance whereas traditional oil gradually loses their additives. 10W40 becomes 10W30 over time, for example. Changing the oil every 3000 miles is a must to maintain consistency when using traditional oil. The extended changes recommended, mostly marketing in my opinion, are too long to insure that the oil is maintaining its designed qualities, let alone guarantee the filter is not bypassing. Wait that long and change your oil. Notice how much smoother the engine becomes after the change. Not a good sign.

Engine Cleanliness:
Traditional oil will form compounds with crankcase polution and recipitate deposits to the case of the engine. Synthetic oils cannot combine with crankcase chemistry and thus will not form sludge or other undesirable compounds to clog oil passages or retain dirt inside the engine. Because synthetic oils will suspend dirt and other chemisty, those particles have a greater chance of being removed by the filter.

Cold Weather performance:
Synthetic oil will flow at -60 F. where traditional oil is wax. Starting a synthetic oil equiped engine when it is 0 F. is like starting traditional oil when it is 40. The engine runs effortlessly verses exhibiting the typical stress when using traditional oil at low temperatures. Cold weather operation before warm up is not nice on engine bearings and cylinder walls when the oil viscosity approaches jello.

Dirt:
Use a 1 micron aircraft quality oil filter and you might never have to change synthetic oil as it doesn't degrade. Traditional oil would stay just as clean, but would be compromised over time by chemical bonding altering its structure (see saturation above).

Expensive car manufacturers are not stupid:
BMW and other premium cars insist that their engines be lubricated with sythetic oil. BMW warns owners to change oil ASAP if anything else is used. Using synthetic oil with regular changes provides the level of protection to the engine that maximizes its life. Certainly, it is more expensive up front, but the benefits will be realized in smoother performance, higher gas mileage, lower oil temperatures, greater resistance to damage if a coolant system failure raises the engine temperature, and ultimately a lower cost of operation. We spend $20,000+ for a car and complain about spending an additional $10 every three months to protect this expensive investment. It doesn't make sense. Quality maintenance is part of the expensive of a car.

This information was originally posted by LGilbert.
 
Someone told me(not sure if it's a tall tale) that you shouldn't put synthetic oil in your car for a suggested 12k miles are on you car. Any thoughts?
 
GM recently did a study on syn vs dino oils during breakin. They found no related differences which would cause a recommendation towards not using syn early in a car.

Certain oils, like redline DO tell you to go a few oil changes before switching, but redline is also unlike any other oil on the market.

Mobil1 supersyn is used as factory fill on many high performance vehicles.

I'd still go at least one oil change before swappin to syn, as most experts (including the UOA labs) recommend NO EXTENDED DRAINS during the inital breakin period (prior to 10k). Since this involves rapid oil changes, usually not exceeding 3,000 miles, going to syn at this point would be cost prohibitive.

I'm approaching my 3rd oil change (at 1600 miles on the odometer), so you can imagine if I wasn't running my 5w-20 semi-syn motorcraft at 1.40/qt, I'd be throwing alot of money away :).
 
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crossbow said:
GM recently did a study on syn vs dino oils during breakin. They found no related differences which would cause a recommendation towards not using syn early in a car.

Certain oils, like redline DO tell you to go a few oil changes before switching, but redline is also unlike any other oil on the market.

Mobil1 supersyn is used as factory fill on many high performance vehicles.

I'd still go at least one oil change before swappin to syn, as most experts (including the UOA labs) recommend NO EXTENDED DRAINS during the inital breakin period (prior to 10k). Since this involves rapid oil changes, usually not exceeding 3,000 miles, going to syn at this point would be cost prohibitive.

I'm approaching my 3rd oil change (at 1600 miles on the odometer), so you can imagine if I wasn't running my 5w-20 semi-syn motorcraft at 1.40/qt, I'd be throwing alot of money away :).

OK, now I am confused. I have right at 5K miles, I have not yet changed the oil, going in tomorrow, dealer will put pure-dino unless I bring something else. I am now convinced I should use fully synthetic. I also plan to start changing the oil myself after tomorrow, so if the oil costs $5/qt and the filter costs about 8-10 then I am really only spending an extra $10-15 which seems worth it. SO, should I buy Motorcraft 5w20 semi-syn for this change, then switch to full-syn at 10K?

Oh yeah, I know it is bad that I waited till 5K for the first change but I can't go back in time or else I would be a billionaire ;)

Once I go to synthetic, I assume a higher than 5K (like maybe 7.5K) interval is fine right? My friend has a BMW that uses synthetic and he goes 15K between oil changes and just changes the filter every 5K. I think that is a little long but 7.5K would also help offset the cost..
 
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crossbow said:
I'm approaching my 3rd oil change (at 1600 miles on the odometer).

That's a lot of oil changes for 1600 miles, what's that every 533 miles you get an oil change.
 
First at 100, second at 600, third at 1600, 4th at 3600 (swap to syn), 5th at 6600, 6th at 10600, then every 5k from there on out.

Oil's cheaper then gas right now :).
 
hmm, changing oil at 100 miles is pretty useless i would think.

anyways, walmart has 5 quart jugs of mobil 1 for like 20 bucks iirc.
that is about 4-6 cheaper than if you get it by quart.
 
...anyone try Mobil 1 0w-40? Also are you guys running 0W-20 in the winter as well?
 
I ran 0w-20 year round in my 6s ATX with excellent UOA's (some of the best yet). Some people have run 0w-30 GC with excellent results. I won't run higher then a 30 wt in the 6 or 3...the engine tolerances are so tight, you'd probably increase the engine wear, as well as reducing power and mileage. (Remember thicker oil doesn't necessarily protect better, its the additive package of the oil that primarily determines how much it protects)

As for dumping the oil at 100 miles...all the ring seating takes place in the first 20 miles, thats where a majority of the iron comes from. Cost me about 8 dollars an oil change, so I don't mind...we'll see how clean my engine is at the first UOA :).
 
3junky said:
All I am saying is that it is not required and it costs quite a bit more. There are advantages to using it such as less engine buildup and longer intervals between changes, true. Like I said, its your money, spend it how you want. For me, I do exactly as the manual tells me. Change the oil every 5K (I am going in for my first change this weekend and I am at 4800). Use 5w20, etc. To each his own. I wasn't trying to piss anybody off (dunno)

well thats b/c you have no had your car for 48,000 get there then u would beg to spend those extra cents that u saved before on getting synthetic sorry man for everyone its not a must but its a large must if you want the best out of your car.... just think about it... facts are in front. (thumb)
 
lol yeah it is. Whatever you decide to do, don't do 6-7K oil changes on a fram filter!
 
Mobil 1 0w20 is hard to find, Mobil discontinued it and substituted 5W20 instead. Most 4cyl ford and honda vehicles use this oil. Zero weight seems to be thinner and in my experience it seems to run better with the thinner oil. If you go to Autozone you will most likely only find the 5W20 which should work fine. if you find some old stock you might be able to pick up some 0w20, I prefer to use the thinner oil in the winter.

Too bad the Mazdaspeed6 uses a cartridge, I've had positive experiences with Mobil 1 oil filters. Dont know which Mobil 1 filter I would use if I did the spin on conversion. My porsche used a filter element also. Not sure what the benefit is, for those who change their own oil the removal tool is a must.
 
crossbow said:
One thing to note for anyone reading this thread...the first oil change should be EXTREMELY early. Before 2000 miles is heavily recommended, with the majority of critics/experts saying that a 1,000 mile oil change is best. (Miles on the odometer)

The amount of wear metals in the first 1000 miles is greater then 10,000 miles of wear later in the car's life, and many of these metals are not caught by the oil filter (too small), and go flinging around the engine, causing a cascading wear effect.

UOA's done on factory fill oil changes, done at a factory interval (like 5 or 7.5k, or even 10k for some luxury cars) usually show 10-20 TIMES more wear then an average oil change.

Change your oil early, get those wear metals outta the engine. Your car will thank you. Motorcraft 5w-20 Semi-Syn (stock fill) is 1.40/qt at wallmart.

(Note: You should technically change your filter at this time as well)

Always remember that manufacturer recommendations are for THEM, not for you. Your own interval's can only be found by performing UOA's, based on your driving habits, conditions, and environment. (UOA = Used Oil Analysis)

http://www.bobistheguy.com
http://www.blackstone-labs.com

The last thing the manufacturer (and especially the dealer) wants, is for your car to last 300,000 miles :).


Actually, Honda sent out a TSB recently about changing your oil too early. Honda actually threatens to void the warranty of customers who change it too early.

This is because the cars come from the factory with a special break in oil that helps the engine break in properly.

They actually don't even recommend replacing the oil filter anymore at the first oil change.
 
0W-20 is back but I only found it at wal mart if you are still intrested in it.
 

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