Stiffer Shocks with stock springs on MS3?

[VAspeed3]

I think stiffer shocks would make a big improvement in the small amount of road course track driving I do without ruining the regular driving.

Because I drive the MS3 about 40,000 miles/year it's not feasible to change out a bunch of stuff and make the wife b**** about the ride. So far it's all completely stock. I see all about stiffer shocks when the car is lowered on new springs, but has anyone done stiffer shocks with the stock springs?


Thanks

 

[dcomiskey]

I'm pretty sure Cobb or one of the other tuners say it's the springs, not the shocks that need to be replaced. Apparently the stock springs are too soft when matched with the stock dampers.

 

[fourthmeal]

I second that. Cobb really hit it on the head here...And you can tell because the shocks are really doing their job, but the springs just don't have enough oomph. I think progressive springs are key here, since we all want a smooth ride in normal conditions.

 

[MazdaSteve3]

I think stiffer shocks would make a big improvement in the small amount of road course track driving I do without ruining the regular driving.

Because I drive the MS3 about 40,000 miles/year it's not feasible to change out a bunch of stuff and make the wife b**** about the ride. So far it's all completely stock. I see all about stiffer shocks when the car is lowered on new springs, but has anyone done stiffer shocks with the stock springs?


Thanks

I'm planning to put Koni sports on this weekend. Stay in touch. There's massive posting on one of the other forums about the floatiness of the stock suspension, and whether it is due mainly to the springs or the shocks. My intuition says it is the shocks. Yes, I realize that is counter to Cobb's assessment. But Cobb says they never felt the floatiness on the stock suspension. I didn't either when the car was new. It took a few thousand miles to go from just 'too soft for my preference' to annoyingly floaty.

The konis are available only for the std. 3, but fitment is fine.

Hopefully I'll get to the track in Nov., so I can also give some track impressions. The plan is to install the shocks and evaluate, then decide if I want to add the MS springs. That would involve repeating a lot of the same labor, but we are after knowledge here, and knowledge has costs.

 

[fourthmeal]

I'm planning to put Koni sports on this weekend. Stay in touch. There's massive posting on one of the other forums about the floatiness of the stock suspension, and whether it is due mainly to the springs or the shocks. My intuition says it is the shocks. Yes, I realize that is counter to Cobb's assessment. But Cobb says they never felt the floatiness on the stock suspension. I didn't either when the car was new. It took a few thousand miles to go from just 'too soft for my preference' to annoyingly floaty....

I too noticed that a "floaty" feeling came about after a few thousand miles, and I think this is from a number of things, one of course being the dampers. I will suggest, however, that you might want to double-check your air pressure in your tires. I realized I have become complacent in checking my tire pressure because of our nice pressure monitors built into our wheels, and this complacency resulted in several pounds of air missing from each tire as compared to stock suggestions. Refilling each tire to the correct amount (+.5psi) seemed to "magically" bring back much of the stiffness that I first noticed.

Also, it makes sense that when our bushings and bearings are brand new, they are like delrin. As they age, they become more and more loose and rubbery. This can also result in a softer more floaty ride.

 

[6262MS3]

Please let us know how the Koni's work out. That's also my only beef with the stock suspension, going over a dip or hump even at moderate speeds causes a major rebound (I'd fly through the roof without my seatbelt). I'm anything but an expert on suspension physics, but wouldn't that indicate not having enough rebound damping from the shocks?

 

[blacksheepms3]

I'm in the same boat as you guys are. I'm bouncing around after installin H&R springs. I need shocks, but there are none out there as of yet. I'm thinkin of dumping the springs and gettin the ms coilovers. I hear great reviews about it.

 

[MS3]

I can't say enough good things about the MS coilovers, or any good coilover system for the MS3. That was the last suspension change I did on my car (after lighter wheels/tires and Hotchkis sway bars). One thing I noticed right away, which I think is primarily because of the stiffer damping, is the reduction of the rate in which weight transfers to the rear under hard acceleration. This seems to have reduced my torque steer and pretty much eliminated wheel hop--more traction up front allowing the car to pull harder. I noticed this driving away from the shop after the install. Obviously it handles better in the corners as well...

 

[blacksheepms3]

see...another great review for ms coilovers.

 

[VAspeed3]

see...another great review for ms coilovers.

So, I see two opposite fixes. Makes me wonder if they fix the same problem.

I appreciate all help offered, but I definitely felt FLOAT at the kink of the front stretch at VIR while running 115mph+. That says "shocks" to me. If I have to choose who I can learn from, I would pick the guys with road course experience and how their mods changed the handling at over 100MPH.

By the way, if you're going to run a road course and want to do mods, I think suspension (whatever that turns out to be) will get you lower lap times than adding more power. I passed some cars that should be faster, and got passed by some that should be a lot slower -- and it was all about the turns and exit speed off the apexes. Stock MS3 is plenty fast on the straights.

 

[Haltech]

Welp, why are there some people blowing out their stock shocks than after going to aftermarket springs? Believe me, there is major improvements to be made on the stock shocks despite what Cobb tells you. (jerkit)

 

[blacksheepms3]

so where are the aftermarket shocks that should be better than stock? I need em now! Any developers out there reading this...We need ms3-specific shocks for ms3

 

[VAspeed3]

I'm planning to put Koni sports on this weekend. Stay in touch. There's massive posting on one of the other forums about the floatiness of the stock suspension, and whether it is due mainly to the springs or the shocks. My intuition says it is the shocks. Yes, I realize that is counter to Cobb's assessment. But Cobb says they never felt the floatiness on the stock suspension. I didn't either when the car was new. It took a few thousand miles to go from just 'too soft for my preference' to annoyingly floaty.

The konis are available only for the std. 3, but fitment is fine.

Hopefully I'll get to the track in Nov., so I can also give some track impressions. The plan is to install the shocks and evaluate, then decide if I want to add the MS springs. That would involve repeating a lot of the same labor, but we are after knowledge here, and knowledge has costs.

I would love to get feedback from anyone who has run at least 100 -- even better 120 to 130mph at a road course with the new Konis or the MS upgrades. Where should I look for reviews on these now?

 

[MazdaSteve3]

I got the Konis on. Not good. Even on the softest settings, there is a lot of undue vibration, even on new blacktop. Just unnecessarily harsh. And the float is still there. Reduced some, but definitely still there. No body roll in the corners, with rapid onset of understeer. Clearly, a lack of road compliance. Seems like the springs aren't strong enough for these shocks.

At firmer settings, the ride is very irritating, with a 'riding on the bump stops' feeling. The float reduces, but is never really completely gone.

Strange, though, that these shocks are for the Mz3, and are designed to also work with the stock springs on that car, which are softer than the MS3 springs. I don't know why there isn't any room between floaty and harsh, but these shocks alone aren't going to do the job.

 

[zerocover]

Look into volvo s40 springs. They are the same as the mazda 3 (they'll interchange) but there a bit stiffer. So you can get blistens for the s40 mmm blistens.

 

[fastdreams]

I got the Konis on. Not good. Even on the softest settings, there is a lot of undue vibration, even on new blacktop. Just unnecessarily harsh. And the float is still there. Reduced some, but definitely still there. No body roll in the corners, with rapid onset of understeer. Clearly, a lack of road compliance. Seems like the springs aren't strong enough for these shocks.

At firmer settings, the ride is very irritating, with a 'riding on the bump stops' feeling. The float reduces, but is never really completely gone.

Strange, though, that these shocks are for the Mz3, and are designed to also work with the stock springs on that car, which are softer than the MS3 springs. I don't know why there isn't any room between floaty and harsh, but these shocks alone aren't going to do the job.

Are you still here?

I want a shock upgrade for D-Stock autocross. Did you try any other setting besides soft? I've been talking with Koni, they suggest that if I try the mazda 3 koni's on my speed3, that I should start at the medium setting and go up from there.

It doesn't make sense that you had the issues you had when the shock is designed for a softer spring. Seems like it would be the opposite.

Sell me your konis

Edit - just realized you mentioned your experience at firmer settings as well.

 

[blacksheepms3]

I bought the Bilstein shocks for ms3 at awrracing.com Thery're coming next week. When I install it and drive my car I'll give you guys impressions on it. Sounds promising from what i've read about these shocks so far when used with lowering springs. But who knows how it's gonna be like until it's installed.

 

[fastdreams]

Cool. I was just looking at those.

Talking with CosmicBlueMS3 in another forum - he tells me that he has the bilsteins from AWR (with custom valving) and that he likes them both on the street and for autocross purposes with the MS3 stock springs. FYI It's required to run stock springs in stock class autocross.

 

[blacksheepms3]

Attention every speed 3 owners

I got the Bilstein shocks with me now, I will be installing it tomorrow, but I really need help with how much torque to specs various nuts that are involved with the replacement. If anyone of you guys have the shop manual for mazdaspeed 3 suspension. Please tell me how much torque to use on these bolts. Do me this favor and I promise I will do a comprehensive review of the shocks (Bilstein) and springs (H&R) combo for the benefit of this fourm so we'll all know the effectiveness of this combination....compare to stock.

I've read online that this combination is being used by mustangs and bmw owners and it's supposed to be great. I bought the H&R first and i blew my stock shocks, I bought the bilsteins not knowing this combo is being utilized by other dirvers, but I'm glad that it's a promising combo.

Anyways, for those who got the shop manual for mazdaspeed 3 please tell me how much to torque the:
shock mount nuts
outer cap nut
sway bar bolt
shock bolt
lower shock bolt
A arm mount bolts


Thanks in advance!

 

[VAspeed3]

BlacksheepMS3, how did the Bilsteins work out?

Attention every speed 3 owners

I got the Bilstein shocks with me now, I will be installing it tomorrow, but I really need help with how much torque to specs various nuts that are involved with the replacement. If anyone of you guys have the shop manual for mazdaspeed 3 suspension. Please tell me how much torque to use on these bolts. Do me this favor and I promise I will do a comprehensive review of the shocks (Bilstein) and springs (H&R) combo for the benefit of this fourm so we'll all know the effectiveness of this combination....compare to stock.

I've read online that this combination is being used by mustangs and bmw owners and it's supposed to be great. I bought the H&R first and i blew my stock shocks, I bought the bilsteins not knowing this combo is being utilized by other dirvers, but I'm glad that it's a promising combo.

Anyways, for those who got the shop manual for mazdaspeed 3 please tell me how much to torque the:
shock mount nuts
outer cap nut
sway bar bolt
shock bolt
lower shock bolt
A arm mount bolts


Thanks in advance!

Hey, how did these work out?