SP23 Vs SP20

[twilightprotege]

well welcome to the forum!

pls introduce yourself in the aussie section!

btw, all BJ onwards 323's have the tripple H contruction

what specs of the sp20 are you after?

 

[malebastard]

Nice pics Twilight...

Jus specs on engine performance and weight.

i.e. Kw's, Nm, kerb weight.

 

[twilightprotege]

the sp20 (manual) astina is 1175kg kerb, the protege 1214kg kerb.

both engines are 98kw @ 6000rpm at the engine (about 98hp at the wheels) and 174Nm of torque @4500rpm

apparently they are supposed to do 0-100 in 9.7seconds.

 

[malebastard]

The sp23 manual sedan is 1.232kg, 115kw @ 6,500rpm at the engine (105kw @ the wheels dyno tested.) and 203Nm of torque @ 4,500rpm. As well as SVT.

Someone said earlier that they don't think that engine performance is better and see is more as a "down grade"...

How can they justify that with these stats?

 

[twilightprotege]

i think they were referring to spending the money to get an sp23 wouldnt be worth the money, money would be better spent on their current sp20.

105kw at the wheels is a bit dodgy. almost all fwd cars are like this. whatever kw the engine produces is very close to the same figure in hp at the wheels. so 115kw at the engine is around 115hp atw....115hp atw is around 85kw atw.

also, power is only a small part of the performance of the car. gear ratios have a real lot to do with accelaration. ie an sp20 could be making full power at 50kph and about to change gears when the sp23 hasnt made full power til 65kph. the sp20 would be quicker even though the sp23 has more power.

 

[malebastard]

The sp20 does the 0-100 in 9.7secs you quoted.

The sp23 does the 0-100 in 8.5secs.

So wouldn't that conclude that the mz3 is indeed faster?

The 105kw at the wheels was dyno tested in America, so i have no reason to lie about that.

 

[twilightprotege]

yes, but i was just making a point that power isnt everything

 

[malebastard]

yes, but i was just making a point that power isnt everything

I understand that, other factors like handling, rear ratios etc...

But you stated that the sp20 would be faster than the sp23 when indeed it is not.

Please don't think i'm having a go at you, i'm just getting the facts straight, and understandable sticking up for my pride and joy mz3.

btw.. Is that blue mz3 yours?

 

[wiredone]

all i can say is... without this being turned into a flame these are our personal opinions... no reason to get hot under the colar. I still believe that it looks plasticy. I have diriven an sp23 and it does not compare, im not simply saying "thats gay my car is cooler" i have actually compared the two... and seeing within two weeks i will hopefully be putting down over 200kw at the wheels (dyno tested...lol) i dont think the sp23 CAN be compared, i have handling, i have power, and most of all, I have a front mount... the sp23 doesnt =p

nuf said in my eyes

 

[twilightprotege]

yeah no worries, i had no idea what power nor speed the sp23 had until you told me.

the sp23 in the pics is JEB83's fiances. i just posted the pics for him

btw - glad you got the sedan. not many people like the look of the hatch

 

[malebastard]

all i can say is... without this being turned into a flame these are our personal opinions... no reason to get hot under the colar. I still believe that it looks plasticy. I have diriven an sp23 and it does not compare, im not simply saying "thats gay my car is cooler" i have actually compared the two... and seeing within two weeks i will hopefully be putting down over 200kw at the wheels (dyno tested...lol) i dont think the sp23 CAN be compared, i have handling, i have power, and most of all, I have a front mount... the sp23 doesnt =p

nuf said in my eyes

How can you be soo ignorant and compare a boosted car to a stock n/a car?

go compare your car to a modded s15 and have a chat with them about power and handling.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But if your opinions aren't positive or constructive, keep em to yourself.

 

[malebastard]

yeah no worries, i had no idea what power nor speed the sp23 had until you told me.

the sp23 in the pics is JEB83's fiances. i just posted the pics for him

btw - glad you got the sedan. not many people like the look of the hatch

That's cool twilightprotege..

That's why i was saying all i said about ppl not knowing what they're comparing with..

The sp23 is a very nice car to drive, alot of torque for a 4 cylinder. And very smooth, and quiet... Almost too quiet!!!

But yeah, i'm happy with the sedan too... the hatch reminds me too much of my mates corolla...

 

[wiredone]

How can you be soo ignorant and compare a boosted car to a stock n/a car?

go compare your car to a modded s15 and have a chat with them about power and handling.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. But if your opinions aren't positive or constructive, keep em to yourself.

malebastard:
as this originally started as all the sp20 users stating why they wouldnt want to upgrade... I am not comparing a NA car with a boosted car i am comparing MY car with the sp23. its that simple, not being ignorant, not being foolish. As you said yourself i was just stating the facts, and the fact remains. I have better handling and better power than an sp23. faid enough i have to unfair advantage that i have the magical power of the dark side to help me along in the form of a turbo but that is besides the point, the point i was making was there is no comparison between my car and an sp23...

This was not meant to be a flame, simply an opinions thread. SP23's are nice cars... i am in love with the tail lights, thats about all i would prefer over my sp20 though.

I hope you are able to recover from falling off the chair over my comments as they were not intented to have the affect on you that they oviously have.

 

[malebastard]

malebastard:
as this originally started as all the sp20 users stating why they wouldnt want to upgrade... I am not comparing a NA car with a boosted car i am comparing MY car with the sp23. its that simple, not being ignorant, not being foolish. As you said yourself i was just stating the facts, and the fact remains. I have better handling and better power than an sp23. faid enough i have to unfair advantage that i have the magical power of the dark side to help me along in the form of a turbo but that is besides the point, the point i was making was there is no comparison between my car and an sp23...

This was not meant to be a flame, simply an opinions thread. SP23's are nice cars... i am in love with the tail lights, thats about all i would prefer over my sp20 though.

I hope you are able to recover from falling off the chair over my comments as they were not intented to have the affect on you that they oviously have.

Thanks for clearing that up wiredone.

But this is by no means a flaring arguement, just a simple healthy dicussion/debate, nothing wrong with that.

Ofcourse the sp20 owners are going to be biased to their cars as the sp23 owners will be to theirs.

But my points were related to the title of the thread : sp20 Vs sp23.
And my points were to just validate and clear up any false facts that were stated here.

Your car is now forced inducted and has been modified, and comparing it to a stock n/a car is not a comparison at all. I have no doubt that you car has more power, and better handling than the sp23, with the money that you've probably spent on doing that, you may have bought a car that was built for real performance in the first place.

The simple agruement is STOCK sp20 Vs STOCK sp23. The sp23 comes up on top with performance/engine, handling, nicer interior, 17" wheels stock, and better styling.

 

[Zed]

Agreed, in stock form, the SP23 has a better engine than the SP20.

Handling - without having driven a SP23 I can't comment, but I presume you have and decided the SP23 handles better. On what criteria did you make this judgement?

17" wheels - definitely a plus for the SP23. The SP20 certainly could have used the bigger rims.

Interior and styling - this is entirely subjective. I like the SP23 sedan styling much better than the SP23 hatch, but not more than the SP20. I prefer the SP20 interior especially with the Nardi steering wheel. Blue lights and binnacles just don't do it for me. White face dials and amber lighting give the SP20 a classier look IMO. And upgrading the stereo in the SP23 looks like a PITA job to do yourself.

The question I had to ask myself was, is the SP23 worth the extra $4-5000 (on road prices) compared to the SP20?

 

[twilightprotege]

yeah if only the sp20 came with a more rev happy engine it would be one of the best cars mazda has made....the 92mm stroke really sucks

87mm bore x 84mm stroke would be very very very nice (1997cc)

 

[JEB83]

Whoa...nice debate guys!

I justed wanted to show off our new car...didn't expect to hit a few nerves.

I drive the Black SP20 every 2nd day...and drive the blue SP23 every other day I don't drive the SP20...The only difference for me now...is that I tend to thrash my car a wee bit more...and drive like miss daisy in the SP23...23 not being my car and all...

 

[malebastard]

Agreed, in stock form, the SP23 has a better engine than the SP20.

Handling - without having driven a SP23 I can't comment, but I presume you have and decided the SP23 handles better. On what criteria did you make this judgement?

17" wheels - definitely a plus for the SP23. The SP20 certainly could have used the bigger rims.

Interior and styling - this is entirely subjective. I like the SP23 sedan styling much better than the SP23 hatch, but not more than the SP20. I prefer the SP20 interior especially with the Nardi steering wheel. Blue lights and binnacles just don't do it for me. White face dials and amber lighting give the SP20 a classier look IMO. And upgrading the stereo in the SP23 looks like a PITA job to do yourself.

The question I had to ask myself was, is the SP23 worth the extra $4-5000 (on road prices) compared to the SP20?

How does the steering wheel in the sp20 look like??? I'm curious...

I have not personally driven the sp20, but my friend owned one previously, and has driven my sp23. He commented that handling is very nice and better than the sp20.

The sp23 has electric assisted steering, making it a dream to drive. It also has multi link rear suspension - much like the mazda6.

Overall, the complete handling of the mazda3 is excellent!

You would be doing 90km and it would only seem you are doing 60km.

Thats why on other mazda3 forums, ppl have been talking about a speed limiter/alert.

 

[twilightprotege]

i think you can find a picture of the steering wheel on the mazda website...here's a small pic :

the sp20 has speed sensitive steering as well, but once the car is lowered the feedback from the road is much better. some people dont like it, but i love feedback. i cant stand vague steering.

the sp20 has Independent McPherson strut with twin trapezoidal links and double acting shock absorbers ar the rear. there is no difference in performance between the two

 

[SFC01v2]

the sp20 has Independent McPherson strut with twin trapezoidal links and double acting shock absorbers ar the rear. there is no difference in performance between the two

The only way there is no difference in performance is if they are the same! Small changes in suspension geometry can have profound effects on suspension performance, good and bad.
You would have to assume that given the market for the SP23 that the Mazda engineers wouldn't be making a backwards step in terms of handling, however they may gauge it.
For me in my Astina and extra 500cc wouldn't go astray regardless of the chassis dynamics - I think that you would all agree