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- '13 CWP MS3 & '16 Mazda6 GT
I think most of us are stuck there...seems to be the limit..
Prodigy said:
So I drove my first mp5 today..
- Thread starter Ilikemazda
- Start date
Yeah... on top is good... 
LOL>. thanks lisa and thanks guys for the support/kind words.
Replica I hope you feel I'm being amiable and not argumentative... I don't mean to be difficult, I'm just pointing out why I think so many of us disagree with your apparent point of view about a lack of reliability in the protege.
LOL>. thanks lisa and thanks guys for the support/kind words. Replica I hope you feel I'm being amiable and not argumentative... I don't mean to be difficult, I'm just pointing out why I think so many of us disagree with your apparent point of view about a lack of reliability in the protege.
It was a joke. Hangnail and I did his motor swap and a B18B is FAR from being a J-spec motor. It's a run of the mill Integra LS motor. I don't see how it is unfair to compare the FS-DE to even the lowly D series Honda motor. They are both economy car motors built for efficency. Even the B18C1 is just a GSR motor. Simply because there are worse motors built doesn't excuse mazda for making a somewhat below average vehicle. And no, i don't take any of it personal, hopefully people aren't reading my responses that way either.TurfBurn said:
Replica said:
See the B18 I'm used to seeing is the Japanese 9,000+ rpm motor... that's what my racing buddy with a civic hatch that is worked runs I believe.. now it's bored out to a 2.0L so it'd be a B20
LOL.. kidding... but anyway... My point was Honda and motors in general are very high quality regardless of economy etc... hell even their boat motors are creme de la creme. So you were comparing to a manufacturer of motors that are typically upper bar in the game.
I also don't believe that you can fault the FS-DE for oil starvation or a loose VICS screw. Somebody at Mazda should be shot for not loctiting those screws and using soft brass/steel instead of something else stronger. But that FS-DE motor has been known to go thousands and thousands of miles.. keep in mind you can find it in the MX-6 (I think) and for sure in the 626 and the Ford Probe among others. then all the variations of the same exact block and oiling system in the earlier proteges in other variations from the 2.0. In general the rods, pistons, rings, crank, block of this motor are very very well built.
Certainly no GM motor where they paint the damn block because their block porosity is so bad that it seeps oil THROUGH the block.
TurfBurn said:
b18b is not a "jspec" motor and the only real differences between usdm and jdm motors are slight changes in compression (jdm motors generally are a few points higher) and possibly mild fuel map changes. there should be no tangible difference in the reilability of a "jspec" motor over a "usspec" motor
HangNail said:
I thought some of them ran higher redlines... which would indicate some stronger components and revisions... I don't do honda's past my exposure through this racing buddy (who's motor I have to look at for him tonight.. having issue)... he is putting out 231 at the wheels N/A running 13:1 compression... his weight with driver and fuel is at 2200lbs now too
.HangNail said:
You also don't hear about it on the earlier Mazda's that didn't have the stupid VICS baffles...
But that was my point.. Honda motors are a rough comparison for any motor... I doubt you can find a motor company that produces motors with less problems than the Honda motors... maybe if you look at the 4.3L/5.7L and the 4.6L of chevy and Ford respectively... but the only reason for that is those blocks themselves have been in use for something stupid like 40 years.
not that i know of but its possible. higher redlines would probably be because of different ecu programming rather than mechanical components (when comparing the same motor usdm vs jdm). but yeah with built motors just about the only thing thats still stock is the block, if you dont consider guards and sleeves.TurfBurn said:I thought some of them ran higher redlines... which would indicate some stronger components and revisions... I don't do honda's past my exposure through this racing buddy (who's motor I have to look at for him tonight.. having issue)... he is putting out 231 at the wheels N/A running 13:1 compression... his weight with driver and fuel is at 2200lbs now too
youre right. it would be hard for a part to break if its not installed ... and the 4.6l ford is a relatively new motor. i believe they first started producing them around 94-95. i know they showed up in mustangs in 96, but i think they were in another car before that. the ls series chevy motors are relatively new also, showing up in corvettes around 95-96TurfBurn said:
I know his engine redlined at like 9500 rpm's from day one... so if that's a standard honda redline than who knows... but now with it fully built I think he can do like 10 or 11k or something stupid high.HangNail said:
Right... but again my point is the motor isn't at fault when it is a vics screw.. that is much more of an "accessory" failure that is killing the motor... it's like saying a timing belt that stretches and jumps teeth or breaks is the motor's fault.
The 4.3 and 5.7L motors have been around for decades and decades... the 4.3L commonly used for Chevy blazers and others has been used in it's standard casting for absolutely decades. It is a 6 cylinder version of the chevy small block.. just dropped the last two cylinders.. the 5.7L is the 8 cylinder version that chevy made (classic 350) that has been around for decades. I did make a mistake on the 4.6L that has only been around since about 94 and was used in the T-Bird etc.... there is a Ford small block and a Ford Big block that are still used in their standard casting form since the mid 60's... I'd have to find the article.. similarily dodge has one or two that are that way too.. where the block and everything are still the exact same.. heads and valves and the like have been changed the deck height has changed here and there... but the same thing still from day one... same rough molds...
TurfBurn said:
I don't believe that Replica ever accused Mazda of building a poor motor. His opinion was that the P5 was unreliable because of other defective parts that could cause engine failure. I still disagree with his opinion because I think the number of these incidences are relatively small (though any are not desirable). The P5 is a reliable car, but there were a few that weren't. Even the most reliable cars on the road (Hondas and Toyotas) have a few bad apples that leave the factory. Unfortunately for Replica there were quite a few "bad apples" that were located in his area. Maybe he's right, maybe there are more. But I doubt it.
The B18C1, found in a GSR is pretty much the same as an LS motor and a CRV motor but with a different head and they also have oil squirters in the block. What makes Hondas so beefy is the bottom end has a huge girdle, or mains, or whatever youd like to call them. Even my D15B7 had a really nice girdle.TurfBurn said:
vics is part of the motor. thats like saying just because my rod bolts have a tendancy to break doesnt make my motor unreliable. i have never heard of fasteners to be considered a wear and tear part on any motor made by any company. bolts are not under any circumstance supposed to back them selves out, SPECIALLY ones that are located in the intake that may be sucked into the motor.TurfBurn said:
HangNail said:
Alright then better example.... if your cone filter disintegrates or you pull water in through a CAI and it wrecks the motor then is that the fault of the motor? I think not... my point it is not a construction flaw or a design issue as far as the build quality of the motor itself. It is a build quality construction issue of an accessory system however. and as I said... Someone screwed up on those screws. (no pun/bad wording intended)
It's kinda like the Sentra SER Spec-V's. There was a certain year that the precat in the exhaust manifold would come apart and get sucked into the engine.
My complaints don't end on just the motor, there are alot of little things on the car that are not reliable. Every car has its quirks, but the P5 ones seem like ones that will turn into big issues later on down the road. Clutch chatter, cold start knock, the headlights getting brighter when I rev the car, also my car had a slight shutter when going into 4th but installing the kartboy bushings seems to have stopped it. Going through headlight bulbs every 4-5 months, the A/C thing too. My gas milage used to be around 22mpg, then i installed the stock intake and I now get 28-29 mpg. Weird stuff.
The VICS is an issue because alot of manufacturers use dual runner manifolds. The Honda Prelude's H22a uses a dual runner, so does an Integra GSR's B18C1, as does the Sentra Spec-V, but they aren't throwing screws in the motor.
Again, so everyone doesn't get super defensive, I don't think the P5 is a horrible car, I just don't think it's the beacon of reliability that people are trying to attribute to it. If I were the original post starter, I'd get an SI over a P5, just for the reliability, even though I hate the "cock" shifter, and the fit and finish for a Honda is a bit shabby and the motor leaves alot to be desired. What bugs me about the P5, not only does it leave alot to be desired, it's also a bit unreliable. maybe i could deal with unreliability if the car was more rewarding, I guess that's why there's a market for Camaros and Mustangs.
My complaints don't end on just the motor, there are alot of little things on the car that are not reliable. Every car has its quirks, but the P5 ones seem like ones that will turn into big issues later on down the road. Clutch chatter, cold start knock, the headlights getting brighter when I rev the car, also my car had a slight shutter when going into 4th but installing the kartboy bushings seems to have stopped it. Going through headlight bulbs every 4-5 months, the A/C thing too. My gas milage used to be around 22mpg, then i installed the stock intake and I now get 28-29 mpg. Weird stuff.
The VICS is an issue because alot of manufacturers use dual runner manifolds. The Honda Prelude's H22a uses a dual runner, so does an Integra GSR's B18C1, as does the Sentra Spec-V, but they aren't throwing screws in the motor.
Again, so everyone doesn't get super defensive, I don't think the P5 is a horrible car, I just don't think it's the beacon of reliability that people are trying to attribute to it. If I were the original post starter, I'd get an SI over a P5, just for the reliability, even though I hate the "cock" shifter, and the fit and finish for a Honda is a bit shabby and the motor leaves alot to be desired. What bugs me about the P5, not only does it leave alot to be desired, it's also a bit unreliable. maybe i could deal with unreliability if the car was more rewarding, I guess that's why there's a market for Camaros and Mustangs.
my friend david just turned 110000 miles on his car 2001 protege ES (same drivetrain) with not a single engine problem. And his engine is still quiet and purrs like a kitten. Oh also his car was never babyed driving wise, by that i mean he drives like a nut case
Replica, yes i agree the p5 is not a beacon of reliability. But hey i'd rather have a fun car with a real character and some quirks here and there then being stuck driving a car without a personality but outstanding reliability aka bottom of the line honda civic or the infamous corolla. These cars are appliances made to last, not have fun with. And in this world where so many things are bland and not fun, adding another boring thing.... well it just sucks.....
Replica, yes i agree the p5 is not a beacon of reliability. But hey i'd rather have a fun car with a real character and some quirks here and there then being stuck driving a car without a personality but outstanding reliability aka bottom of the line honda civic or the infamous corolla. These cars are appliances made to last, not have fun with. And in this world where so many things are bland and not fun, adding another boring thing.... well it just sucks.....
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Are you SURE that the other cars don't have some or all of those problems.. problem is when you belong to an enthusiast community and are active in it you see a LOT more problems than if you just visit another forum occasionally or don't belong to a community...
Are you using OEM replacement bulbs or are you using high output? You don't have a UDP d you? But anyway the lights brightening is alternator output... and how it's controlled not anything abnormal or bad or whatever... you could have some poorer grounding.. but regardless minor.. but I see where you are coming from though regardless>
Are you using OEM replacement bulbs or are you using high output? You don't have a UDP d you? But anyway the lights brightening is alternator output... and how it's controlled not anything abnormal or bad or whatever... you could have some poorer grounding.. but regardless minor.. but I see where you are coming from though regardless
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