Rod bearing failure and Mazda won't warranty for a new engine
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tweety2300
Member
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- 2001 mazda protege mp3
Did you give them permission to pull the pan and rod bearings off?
Well anyone can take a picture of a dipstick that has no oil on it, not saying the dealer is "mis-speaking", why would they fudge a result? (unless warranty work like this is highly unprofitable). Did they drain the oil out of the pan and measure?
As for lawsuits, your best bet would be small claims court, Mazda can't bring lawyers in such courts. Seems to me that the whole thing hinges on: is it reasonable that the car would lose so much oil so fast, when there doesn't seem to be evidence (in forums or maybe a TSB) that this is a wide-spread issue? If the dealer didn't actually measure the amount of oil left, a picture of a dipstick might not mean anything.
As for lawsuits, your best bet would be small claims court, Mazda can't bring lawyers in such courts. Seems to me that the whole thing hinges on: is it reasonable that the car would lose so much oil so fast, when there doesn't seem to be evidence (in forums or maybe a TSB) that this is a wide-spread issue? If the dealer didn't actually measure the amount of oil left, a picture of a dipstick might not mean anything.
I signed the standard work order when I dropped it off so I am pretty sure it allows them to pull the pan off. As for a lawsuit, if needed, yes, I will be going to small claims court.
I asked the service manager to do a compression check and check the PCV system yesterday. See if we can figure out why it used so much oil in the first place.
I asked the service manager to do a compression check and check the PCV system yesterday. See if we can figure out why it used so much oil in the first place.
Mazda is denying my appeal. Dealer isn't able to do a compression check since the rod ends are already off so now I have to wait until the heads are off so we can see the condition of the combustion chambers.
I see small claims court in my future on this one.
Also, one thing I did do on this oil change vs all my previous ones was change to the recommended 5w20 oil weight. So if I did have a slight oil consumption problem that was never noticed before then my guess is the lighter weight oil could have aggravated it. From now on I will be double checking oil levels while car is hot and cold since that is the only thing I did differently vs when the dealer checked it. I have never had to do that on previous cars but it seems like I am not the only one on this forum saying the oil level is harder to check then it should be with the CX9.
I see small claims court in my future on this one.
Also, one thing I did do on this oil change vs all my previous ones was change to the recommended 5w20 oil weight. So if I did have a slight oil consumption problem that was never noticed before then my guess is the lighter weight oil could have aggravated it. From now on I will be double checking oil levels while car is hot and cold since that is the only thing I did differently vs when the dealer checked it. I have never had to do that on previous cars but it seems like I am not the only one on this forum saying the oil level is harder to check then it should be with the CX9.
Jasonjames
Member
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- Mazda 2002 BJ Astina 323 1.8 L
The dip-stick tube will get oil flung into it while the engine is running,..but once stopped, the tube is left sitting in the oil in the pan, and will drop to normal-level. 10 mins should be enough time to get an accurate reading.
J J
J J
So the dealer got the new short block in and took out the engine today. I stopped by to look at the heads, pistons, and spark plugs to see if there was any signs of abnormal oil consumption. Of course I don't know what I am really looking for other than what I have read online though. I think the plugs look ok and the valves look ok but definitely some more deposits on the pistons then I would have expected. 4 of the pistons have deposits in the middle with nothing on the edges and the other 2 have some significant deposits across their entire surface. Here are some pictures of everything and definitely appreciate any advice anyone has. The service manager also said the engine looks to be in great condition except for the rod ends of course so no reason to think I didn't maintain properly. I am sure that won't change Mazda Corp's stance...
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- Banned For Being A Troll
Deposits are normal
Looks fine and they could probably just switch out the bearings and start it up, there was no reason to remove the head or the motor for that reason.
If it were mine, I would have dropped the oil pan, pulled the main caps and put new bearing in. Torqued Down, Put the oil pan on and started it up.
$150 in parts and Time is always free.
Looks fine and they could probably just switch out the bearings and start it up, there was no reason to remove the head or the motor for that reason.
If it were mine, I would have dropped the oil pan, pulled the main caps and put new bearing in. Torqued Down, Put the oil pan on and started it up.
$150 in parts and Time is always free.
Well, the dealer already had the pan and rod ends off. 3 of the bearings were bad and it caused wear marks on the ends of the rods and crankshaft. So new crank and rods. Also, the car still has powertrain warranty left so I figure let Mazda get it back to where it is still warrantied and then I am trading it in. I am sure if the warranty was no longer valid then it would be hard for me to get a decent trade in on it. We are definitely done with this car and Mazda's in general after dealing with their customer service.
These dipsticks with the tight fit between rubber and dipstick tube are so airtight that oil will not go up the tube. It will register as low. So you have to pull it out and very slowly push it back down to get an accurate reading. We discussed this at length on the 5 forum.
The rod ends and the crank were showing wear on them. If I just take it somewhere else and have them put in new rod bearings then they will likely fail sooner than they should. Who knows how long that will be but I wouldn't want to do that to the next owner. So I could save a few bucks by having someone put in a new crank and rods, maybe, but probably not much. Mazda is already covering the labor because they are such a nice company... Also, if I don't get it fixed right then the powertrain warranty would be flagged and I am guessing that would come back to haunt me at trade in. I will be trading that thing in shortly.
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
If Mazda is covering labor it should be pretty cheap oem rod bearings run $50-$100 a set, rods shouldn't need replaced. And unless there is scoring the crank should be fine
The crank was scored. Service manager showed it to me but I noticed it immediately anyways. I used Amsoil Signature Series 5w20 for this oil change and have had Amsoil Signature Series 5w30 in it since the first oil change at 2400 miles. Have always used the Amsoil EA oil filters in it too.
Anyone ever had their oil light come on and what was the oil level at if you have? Seems extremely odd that the engine only had 2 qts of oil in it with no light. I know it is based on pressure but still it seems like a calibration issue from Mazda if it doesn't come on prior to causing major engine damage...or mine isn't working properly.
Anyone ever had their oil light come on and what was the oil level at if you have? Seems extremely odd that the engine only had 2 qts of oil in it with no light. I know it is based on pressure but still it seems like a calibration issue from Mazda if it doesn't come on prior to causing major engine damage...or mine isn't working properly.
tweety2300
Member
- :
- 2001 mazda protege mp3
It's any car, usually when the oil light comes on its too late, my old pontiac was 4 qts low and the light didn't come on.
D
daneli
This article describes the various causes of bearing failure and provides illustrations of the different kinds of failures: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/5150/csi_engine_bearings_when_good_bearings_go_bad.aspx
One of the main points of the article is that careful inspection of the failed bearing will almost always reveal important clues about what caused the failure. If you can still get your hands on the failed bearings you might want to compare them to the photographs of bearings that failed from a lack of lubrication vs other causes.
In particular the article says, "The absence of a proper oil film will result in metal-to-metal contact, occasionally to just one bearing or often to a number of them. When the bearing is damaged by oil starvation youll find a very shiny surface and evidence of wiping." If you can confirm that indeed the bearings failed due to a lack of lubrication, then you can try to figure out what happened to the oil that was supposed to be in the engine, but wasn't.
One of the main points of the article is that careful inspection of the failed bearing will almost always reveal important clues about what caused the failure. If you can still get your hands on the failed bearings you might want to compare them to the photographs of bearings that failed from a lack of lubrication vs other causes.
In particular the article says, "The absence of a proper oil film will result in metal-to-metal contact, occasionally to just one bearing or often to a number of them. When the bearing is damaged by oil starvation youll find a very shiny surface and evidence of wiping." If you can confirm that indeed the bearings failed due to a lack of lubrication, then you can try to figure out what happened to the oil that was supposed to be in the engine, but wasn't.
