FlyinHawaiian
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed Protege #1460
Javo said:
His is Euro Domestic Market... they came with 4-lug rear discs if I'm not mistaken...
Rear Disc Conversion-JDM 323 vs US spec 323 w/ rear disc
- Thread starter Superprotege
- Start date
His is Euro Domestic Market... they came with 4-lug rear discs if I'm not mistaken...
the axle is diff. on the 5 lug(inner/outer dia)
so the custom machined axle(shinny piece in the pic)
allows you to put the 4 lug hub on a 5 lug upright
the upright, obviuosly has the mounts for the caliper
yes SOME euro 323 have disc/disc 4lug
as well as SOME asian and austrailian BJII cars
so the custom machined axle(shinny piece in the pic)
allows you to put the 4 lug hub on a 5 lug upright
the upright, obviuosly has the mounts for the caliper
yes SOME euro 323 have disc/disc 4lug
as well as SOME asian and austrailian BJII cars
step 1) press out 5lug axle
step 2) press in custom axle
step 3) bolt on 4lug hub
step 4) impress your friends
i hope you're only going that big on the front
on the rear it will look cool but 11-12" is way overkill
the weight and torque load will negate any performance gains in friction surface...
and it's not going to yield much better braking...if at all
10" is plenty big for the rear on a 2500lb
front engine/front drive street car
unless you are track driving for lap after lap and are concerned about fade
from overheating
step 2) press in custom axle
step 3) bolt on 4lug hub
step 4) impress your friends
i hope you're only going that big on the front
on the rear it will look cool but 11-12" is way overkill
the weight and torque load will negate any performance gains in friction surface...
and it's not going to yield much better braking...if at all
10" is plenty big for the rear on a 2500lb
front engine/front drive street car
unless you are track driving for lap after lap and are concerned about fade
from overheating
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FlyinHawaiian
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed Protege #1460
shabaka said:step 1) press out 5lug axle
step 2) press in custom axle
step 3) bolt on 4lug hub
step 4) impress your friends
i hope you're only going that big on the front
on the rear it will look cool but 11-12" is way overkill
the weight and torque load will negate any performance gains in friction surface...
and it's not going to yield much better braking...if at all
10" is plenty big for the rear on a 2500lb
front engine/front drive street car
unless you are track driving for lap after lap and are concerned about fade
from overheating
Couple questions: Do you have the specs on the custom axle? I'm a little confused on what is different and by how much. Maybe you could elaborate on it a little more. I understand the mechanincs of changing these out and what parts need to go where, etc. I just need to get an idea about how much money I'm gonna need to dump into this endevour and if its cost effective... Could you just use the 4-lug axle in its place or are the lengths different? Also, I was probably going to just keep the stock rear disc diameter, but my main question is if you need to switch out the brake fluid distribution box to maintain the correct brake balance and all.
sorry i'm a bit confusing when i type... my wife says i talk funny too
so here's the deal
everything from a 5lug will fit a 4lug
from the master cylinder to the caliper
the only problem is the hub...it has 5lugs on it
the hubs are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE
the 4lug hub actually uses a larger wheel bearing
knowing it does not make good sence to try and sleeve or shim the
smaller 5lug axle to accept the 4lug hub
you have to
press out the axle from the 5lug and replace it with a custom axle
the new axle will have a 5lug inner diameter and a 4lug outer diameter
(see previous pic)
that diff. allows a 4lug hub to be bolted onto a 5lug, disc ready, upright
...which, like i stated, fits all other BJII suspensions
yes i have the specs and tollerances for the piece
you'll need two 2"x8" billet rods of 4340 stainless (...heck why not TiAl j/k)
no the bias is just fine seeing as the ES/MP3/MSP have the same part
you could upgrade to the 929 master cylinder tho
so here's the deal
everything from a 5lug will fit a 4lug
from the master cylinder to the caliper
the only problem is the hub...it has 5lugs on it
the hubs are NOT INTERCHANGEABLE
the 4lug hub actually uses a larger wheel bearing
knowing it does not make good sence to try and sleeve or shim the
smaller 5lug axle to accept the 4lug hub
you have to
press out the axle from the 5lug and replace it with a custom axle
the new axle will have a 5lug inner diameter and a 4lug outer diameter
(see previous pic)
that diff. allows a 4lug hub to be bolted onto a 5lug, disc ready, upright
...which, like i stated, fits all other BJII suspensions
yes i have the specs and tollerances for the piece
you'll need two 2"x8" billet rods of 4340 stainless (...heck why not TiAl j/k)
no the bias is just fine seeing as the ES/MP3/MSP have the same part
you could upgrade to the 929 master cylinder tho
FlyinHawaiian
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed Protege #1460
shabaka said:
NO worries, wasn't so much confused, just needed that extra info.
Sounds great, could you send me the specs so I can get this rolling?
What would upgrading to the 929 master cylinder do for me?
Thanks again,
Jeff
this guy explains it better than i could of
"A large master cylinder will move more fluid for a certain amount of travel, and will therefore generate more pressure after moving the same distance as a smaller master. However, it will also require more force to be moved so youll have to push harder on the pedal.
A system with relatively large master cylinders and small caliper piston sizes will have a nice firm pedal, but will require more leg strength to get the same amount of braking"
"more" is a relative term here cause
a) it's not a huge jump in size
b) you drive stick and your legs are used to doing a little work
but the larger master cylinder is a small but nice upgrade
"A large master cylinder will move more fluid for a certain amount of travel, and will therefore generate more pressure after moving the same distance as a smaller master. However, it will also require more force to be moved so youll have to push harder on the pedal.
A system with relatively large master cylinders and small caliper piston sizes will have a nice firm pedal, but will require more leg strength to get the same amount of braking"
"more" is a relative term here cause
a) it's not a huge jump in size
b) you drive stick and your legs are used to doing a little work
but the larger master cylinder is a small but nice upgrade
Superprotege
11.6 @ 30 psi
- :
- 394 whp @26 psi 02 Lx
This great info
I have not been on the forum in a while. Shabaka, I reaaly appreciate your imput. I need a little more help and I was wondering if you can me a little further with your statement below.
"yes i have the specs and tollerances for the piece
you'll need two 2"x8" billet rods of 4340 stainless (...heck why not TiAl j/k)"
Could you please send me the specs fo the rod or post it on this thread.
Question
(1) if I buy the rod, do you think with the picture in this thread and your description, a machine shop come make the custom shaft for me.
(2) Can I get a machine shop to customize a 4 lug or 5 lug shaft (from the junk jard) to fit into the 4 lug hub.
(3) Once I get the shaft issue resolved, is everything else just bolt in. I am planning to buy the entire subframe from a P5 . Is this necessary or will the custom shaft and a P5 spindle (of course all the P5 discs brake hardware- caliper, lines,etc) do the job and I don't have to get the 4 P5 bars (lateral links).
Please advise, I am going to the junk yard today. Thank yoi in advance.
I have not been on the forum in a while. Shabaka, I reaaly appreciate your imput. I need a little more help and I was wondering if you can me a little further with your statement below.
"yes i have the specs and tollerances for the piece
you'll need two 2"x8" billet rods of 4340 stainless (...heck why not TiAl j/k)"
Could you please send me the specs fo the rod or post it on this thread.
Question
(1) if I buy the rod, do you think with the picture in this thread and your description, a machine shop come make the custom shaft for me.
(2) Can I get a machine shop to customize a 4 lug or 5 lug shaft (from the junk jard) to fit into the 4 lug hub.
(3) Once I get the shaft issue resolved, is everything else just bolt in. I am planning to buy the entire subframe from a P5 . Is this necessary or will the custom shaft and a P5 spindle (of course all the P5 discs brake hardware- caliper, lines,etc) do the job and I don't have to get the 4 P5 bars (lateral links).
Please advise, I am going to the junk yard today. Thank yoi in advance.
FlyinHawaiian
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed Protege #1460
I'll warn you ahead of time... you're gonna have fun trying to find a correct disc rotor... I've been looking and its the only part that's been really hanging me up.
you guys are making this more difficult than it should be
you only need to import 4 different parts then combine the rest of the parts you need off the 01-03 ES or P5 or MP3... parts which cost $400 AT THE VERY MOST... I'm sure it is possible to get them cheaper
you only need the JDM or EDM spindles, dust shield, and rotor, everything else you can get here
by doing this, you can reuse a bunch of other expensive parts such as your wheel hubs (which comes with the bearings) and find the rest you need at the junk yard cheaply
you only need to import 4 different parts then combine the rest of the parts you need off the 01-03 ES or P5 or MP3... parts which cost $400 AT THE VERY MOST... I'm sure it is possible to get them cheaper
you only need the JDM or EDM spindles, dust shield, and rotor, everything else you can get here
by doing this, you can reuse a bunch of other expensive parts such as your wheel hubs (which comes with the bearings) and find the rest you need at the junk yard cheaply
FlyinHawaiian
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed Protege #1460
TheMAN said:
Any chance you can price this stuff out for us?
Superprotege
11.6 @ 30 psi
- :
- 394 whp @26 psi 02 Lx
Yeah
Yeah, "TheMan" finally gives his input. I have been waiting for a while to hear from you. I just came back from the junk yard and I bought the spindle, hub, dust shield, mounting bracket and calipers off a P5. If I can't go the route of pressing out the 5 lug hub and getting a custom one made, what website can I order JDM or EDM Parts from. I would like to get the parts TheMan listed "JDM or EDM spindles, dust shield, and rotor" and then sell the parts I bought that I don't need if the custom shaft way does not work.
Another question: is there is any site that sells cross drilled + slotted JDM or EDM rotors (99-00, I think this is the years that had 4 disc rears brakes). If I can find a place then I don't need to get custom ones made. I am a little bit picky because I have cross drilled + slotted rotors in the front and would like the rears to match.
TheMAN said:
Yeah, "TheMan" finally gives his input. I have been waiting for a while to hear from you. I just came back from the junk yard and I bought the spindle, hub, dust shield, mounting bracket and calipers off a P5. If I can't go the route of pressing out the 5 lug hub and getting a custom one made, what website can I order JDM or EDM Parts from. I would like to get the parts TheMan listed "JDM or EDM spindles, dust shield, and rotor" and then sell the parts I bought that I don't need if the custom shaft way does not work.
Another question: is there is any site that sells cross drilled + slotted JDM or EDM rotors (99-00, I think this is the years that had 4 disc rears brakes). If I can find a place then I don't need to get custom ones made. I am a little bit picky because I have cross drilled + slotted rotors in the front and would like the rears to match.
you can't just straight bolt on the P5 s*** onto your car... you'll have to change the lateral links because the lengths are different
just take that s*** back, keep the calipers, ebrake cables, and brake hoses
the way you are going to do it will cost you more money (if not the same) as getting the right parts
for aftermarket rotors, your best bet is looking in australia
I listed all the parts that needed to be imported clearly in the FAQ... only the other parts listed did not specify which car the parts came from... had it been read properly this thread wouldn't be 3 pages and I wouldn't have to tell you anything... and I don't have to to begin with
EDM spindles will be used if you don't have ABS
JDM spindles will be used if you *have* ABS
just take that s*** back, keep the calipers, ebrake cables, and brake hoses
the way you are going to do it will cost you more money (if not the same) as getting the right parts
for aftermarket rotors, your best bet is looking in australia
I listed all the parts that needed to be imported clearly in the FAQ... only the other parts listed did not specify which car the parts came from... had it been read properly this thread wouldn't be 3 pages and I wouldn't have to tell you anything... and I don't have to to begin with
EDM spindles will be used if you don't have ABS
JDM spindles will be used if you *have* ABS
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Superprotege
11.6 @ 30 psi
- :
- 394 whp @26 psi 02 Lx
Still need help
I am sorry for my ignorance but I still need some more help here. I really want rear disc but I want to go the chepest route in terms of not over spending and be left with unwanted parts. Again, I thank you for your input and direction.
Questions:
(1) I am still in need of a website, link or company to buy EDM/JDM Parts from.
(2) I do not have ABS so I should order EDM Spindles, correct?
(3) If I go the route of getting a custom shaft to use my 4 lug hub with the P5 lateral links, will this change my offset and do I need to get new alignment. I just bought new rims, HPR5, 17X7 with 40 offset. I am assuming that the P5 lateral links bolt up to the 02 LX cross member.
(4) I presume the answer to (1) will answer (4) but if not, what company in Austraila, link or website, can I get the 4 lug rotors from . Am I right 99-00 are the ones to get and can get them cross drilled + slotted?
I am sorry for my ignorance but I still need some more help here. I really want rear disc but I want to go the chepest route in terms of not over spending and be left with unwanted parts. Again, I thank you for your input and direction.
Questions:
(1) I am still in need of a website, link or company to buy EDM/JDM Parts from.
(2) I do not have ABS so I should order EDM Spindles, correct?
(3) If I go the route of getting a custom shaft to use my 4 lug hub with the P5 lateral links, will this change my offset and do I need to get new alignment. I just bought new rims, HPR5, 17X7 with 40 offset. I am assuming that the P5 lateral links bolt up to the 02 LX cross member.
(4) I presume the answer to (1) will answer (4) but if not, what company in Austraila, link or website, can I get the 4 lug rotors from . Am I right 99-00 are the ones to get and can get them cross drilled + slotted?
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the link is no longer up on the canadian forum where i got this info
but
quite trully this is easy with the axle swap
the guy who figured out the specs had a how-to
and...
1) 4lug lateral links worked fine on 5lug uprights
2) no geometry changed ie. offset, alignment travel, etc.
3) good luck finding a UK dealer, shipping is gonna be expensive
exchange rates suck $1.60+ U.S. gets you about 1 english pound
4) well, i guess i don't have a four...
i also checked part numbers on 5lug and 4lug latteral links
and got the same part numbers for both
this is only complicated if you over think it
your just putting a hub on a axle
TheMAN; much love i totaly dig your, indispensable, knowledge and website
much respect
but
quite trully this is easy with the axle swap
the guy who figured out the specs had a how-to
and...
1) 4lug lateral links worked fine on 5lug uprights
2) no geometry changed ie. offset, alignment travel, etc.
3) good luck finding a UK dealer, shipping is gonna be expensive
exchange rates suck $1.60+ U.S. gets you about 1 english pound
4) well, i guess i don't have a four...
i also checked part numbers on 5lug and 4lug latteral links
and got the same part numbers for both
this is only complicated if you over think it
your just putting a hub on a axle
TheMAN; much love i totaly dig your, indispensable, knowledge and website
much respect
Superprotege said:
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/produ...=Mazda&code=DIAGROOVE&app_id=146005&x=53&y=14
http://www.jennings-mazda.co.uk/service/parts.aspx
Superprotege said:
2)NOPE
3)SHOULD BE, 4lug lateral links SHOULD bolt up
Superprotege
11.6 @ 30 psi
- :
- 394 whp @26 psi 02 Lx
Thanks a billion
Shabaka, I really appreciate the time you spent to provide me with the answers to my questions. One final question, what are the specs to the custom shaft or where can I get it.
shabaka said:
Shabaka, I really appreciate the time you spent to provide me with the answers to my questions. One final question, what are the specs to the custom shaft or where can I get it.
Last edited:
shabaka said:the link is no longer up on the canadian forum where i got this info
but
quite trully this is easy with the axle swap
the guy who figured out the specs had a how-to
and...
1) 4lug lateral links worked fine on 5lug uprights
2) no geometry changed ie. offset, alignment travel, etc.
3) good luck finding a UK dealer, shipping is gonna be expensive
exchange rates suck $1.60+ U.S. gets you about 1 english pound
4) well, i guess i don't have a four...
i also checked part numbers on 5lug and 4lug latteral links
and got the same part numbers for both
this is only complicated if you over think it
your just putting a hub on a axle
TheMAN; much love i totaly dig your, indispensable, knowledge and website
much respect
using the DX/LX lateral links on the ES/P5 spindle will cause the wheels to stick out too far... not to mention screw up the alignment
the DX/LX lateral links are 1/2" longer than the ES/P5 ones
whoever your source was for the part numbers was WRONG
there are importers here in the US who will be able to assist you in getting the parts you need
Superprotege
11.6 @ 30 psi
- :
- 394 whp @26 psi 02 Lx
Please be patient with me
Thank you again for your input Edwin. I must apologize in advance that I have asked so many questions and make this thing seem more difficult than it is. I am a rookie at this kind of stuff and most things that were done to my car were all done by my mechanic (Manuel) but money is tight now and I am trying to get all the parts so I only have to pay for install.
Question:
(1) Since the ES/P5 Spindles on DX/LX Lateral Links will mess up the alignment and make the wheels stick out, what about P5 Lateral Links and Spindles bolted up to a LX Crossmember. Would this mess up the alignment or cuase the rims to rub?
(2) Edwin, I know you got some EDM Brakes recently, what vendor, website, link or company did you use? I have been searching the website for EDM & JDM Parts and Vendors but still no luck. I am going to try the sites that Shabaka posted.
Please bear with me because this is my ultimate dream for my car to have rear disc since the day I got it, 11/02. I got side-track with this goal when I met Manuel (Hiboost) and started exploring drag racing. 11.9 s quarter mile is great and I was all smiles when I saw 357 whp on the dyno but each day I walk up to the car to get in it and I see the drums in the rear, the car is incomplete to me. Big Boost, aggressive stance, new rims but drums in the back is not sufficient for me at least, I envy all cars with disc in the back even non-fixed up ones.
Sorry, I got carried away writing but if someone can answer this question it would really help. I paid for the P5 rear end on Saturday and I am suppose to pick it up today from the junkyard but if it wont work, I will just get the rear calipers, brakes lines and e-brake lines. Thank you in advance.
TheMAN said:
Thank you again for your input Edwin. I must apologize in advance that I have asked so many questions and make this thing seem more difficult than it is. I am a rookie at this kind of stuff and most things that were done to my car were all done by my mechanic (Manuel) but money is tight now and I am trying to get all the parts so I only have to pay for install.
Question:
(1) Since the ES/P5 Spindles on DX/LX Lateral Links will mess up the alignment and make the wheels stick out, what about P5 Lateral Links and Spindles bolted up to a LX Crossmember. Would this mess up the alignment or cuase the rims to rub?
(2) Edwin, I know you got some EDM Brakes recently, what vendor, website, link or company did you use? I have been searching the website for EDM & JDM Parts and Vendors but still no luck. I am going to try the sites that Shabaka posted.
Please bear with me because this is my ultimate dream for my car to have rear disc since the day I got it, 11/02. I got side-track with this goal when I met Manuel (Hiboost) and started exploring drag racing. 11.9 s quarter mile is great and I was all smiles when I saw 357 whp on the dyno but each day I walk up to the car to get in it and I see the drums in the rear, the car is incomplete to me. Big Boost, aggressive stance, new rims but drums in the back is not sufficient for me at least, I envy all cars with disc in the back even non-fixed up ones.
Sorry, I got carried away writing but if someone can answer this question it would really help. I paid for the P5 rear end on Saturday and I am suppose to pick it up today from the junkyard but if it wont work, I will just get the rear calipers, brakes lines and e-brake lines. Thank you in advance.
