Poor throttle response

[LukeP]

My car is exhibiting what appears to be worsening throttle response, taking up to a full second to respond to throttle input. Power is defintely fine, just the response is delayed. This delay in a manual transmission car can mean a stall when starting uphill, forcing you to use the handbrake. I'm not sure if its the ECU or the throttle-by-wire causing the problem.

I first noticed this problem when I tried to launch hard like I did in my old civic and found that pressing the gas didn't do what I expected, and the car just barely wheezed forward without sufficient revs. I'm used to the motor jumping to my requested throttle input right away, and then loading the motor with a full clutch release simultaneously. What resulted in tire chirp and aggressive foward movement in my civic has much a more cathardic response in my MS3. I heard this is called "Throttle tip-in" and is usually the cause of latent drive-by-wire systems.

I asked my dealer if there's an ECU reflash to fix this, and here's what they replied with:

"We would need to book your vehicle in to run a scan, to deterime if there
is any updates, i do not believe there are any related updates, unfortunatly
there would be a charge of $94.00 + taxes to scan the system. if there is an
update then we can charge that to MCI."

Anybody get this fixed, through dealer or otherwise aftermarket applications? Or do I get used to it and then sell the car for something older with a hard wired throttle. A laggy gas pedal is not what I'd consider "sporty".

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

Are you sure you are not trying to fully launch this car with Traction and DCS still on? That is what will happen, the car will not allow the tire spin so it controls throttle and applys the brakes. Try turning the DSC/Traction control off, then launch.

 

[LBV]

I'd suggest the Sprint Booster but they don't make one for the MS3.

 

[PureDrive]

To the OP, what year is your car? As was mentioned above, have you tried it with the traction control/DSC on and then with it off? Have you tried removing the battery cable and reseting the ECU (does this work on the MS3...)? How long has this been happening (not just a bad tank of gas or drastic change in weather)? Just trying to help...

 

[LukeP]

poor throttle response

Its a 2008.5 manufactured in February of 08.

There is a distinct difference between what I'm attempting to articulate and the TCS kicking in. The TCS doesnt kick in in my car until the tires rotate a few times. I've recreated this by launching at 3000 rpm, with the TCS light blinking. However, whats happening is that I'm hitting the throttle and the RPMS simply dont move for a bit.

I can be sitting in my driveway in neutral, and I can pump the gas pedal to any degree - be it a slight blip, or all the way to the floor - and the actual throttle doesnt respond for about 500ms. Its like driving over a high latency internet connection or something... And I only really noticed it when launching hard or starting uphill.

You know when you have to start uphill, you quick snap from the brake to the gas pedal to prevent rolling downhill? I did this in my 94 civic for ten years of driving. I could get on it fast enough to prevent rolling back more than an inch. I could tip the gas pedal and engadge the clutch in a split second.

With the MS3, the two are no longer in sync. I hit the gas up the hill and engadge the clutch, simultaneously as I did in the civic, and the engine almost dies - the real throttle has taken its sweet time to open so there was no power delivery and no RPM jump. I would have to either wait for the RPMS to incease, which would mean rolling back a few feet (really unprofessional) or use the handbrake to compensate for the throttle lag, or use heal-toe to hold the brake on while queueing the throttle.

I can recreate the lag anytime I blip the throttle in neutral.

On TCS launches at 3000 rpm the tires scrub on pavement for a few rotations because the light blinks and brings them back under control. Those Potenzas are REALLY sticky, so the TCS light doesnt blink under all but the most violent of gear changes (first gear is not one I exploit too often). When those tires were brand new though, yikes, even third gear would often result in some scrabbling for grip.

I'll defintely try a battery terminal ECU reset next time I get the chance.

Whats a Sprint Booster?

It has probably been happening the whole time, but I never really drove the car hard during the break in (just can't bag it on a green motor, no matter if forums say otherwise). I always wondered why I had to keep the gas on between shifts - thought it was just the nature of turbos. However, the lag would explain that as well (matching revs is hard to do with laggy go pedal).

It also affects me in down shifts into second for corners, I got to match revs and it seems to fight me - the lag would explain that aswell.

Hope that info is enough to shed some light ...

 

[mazdaspeedster3]

That is really strange and original. Maybe you need a SRI or CAI to get a little quicker response. 500ms though is faster than you can take your foot from brake to gas... Have you driven a Honda si? Now that is lag time in throttle response!

 

[CWPspeed3]

my car had a similar little lag in throttle before I got a rear motor mount, that seemed to help a lot, when you put your foot down most of the movement is the engine shaking front to back, if you fix that the power instead goes to the wheels.

 

[LukeP]

poor throttle response

Yeah I'm wondering if any forum goers have noticed any improvements to throttle response from such modifications.

I still think its the Drive By Wire system, but it may also be just the way forced induction cars operate.

 

[CWPspeed3]

Yeah electronics always make things more difficult, at least its not as bad as the new civic si's they even had a reflash to fix the throttle problem. MM is one of the best upgrades you can do for these cars, I'd recommend starting there and see if you still have the problem, they arent even $94+ taxes depending on what one you get so youll save on paying the dealer to tell you jack s***.

 

[GoFast]

not sure exactly what the problem is but i would really consider going to a different dealer. My dealer doesnt charge me anything to check if the flash current or not. Secondly they shouldnt have to scan it to see what flash you have. they should be able to look it up by vin number.

 

[Betelgeuse]

My car is exhibiting what appears to be worsening throttle response, taking up to a full second to respond to throttle input. Power is defintely fine, just the response is delayed. This delay in a manual transmission car can mean a stall when starting uphill, forcing you to use the handbrake. I'm not sure if its the ECU or the throttle-by-wire causing the problem.

I first noticed this problem when I tried to launch hard like I did in my old civic and found that pressing the gas didn't do what I expected, and the car just barely wheezed forward without sufficient revs. I'm used to the motor jumping to my requested throttle input right away, and then loading the motor with a full clutch release simultaneously. What resulted in tire chirp and aggressive foward movement in my civic has much a more cathardic response in my MS3. I heard this is called "Throttle tip-in" and is usually the cause of latent drive-by-wire systems.

I asked my dealer if there's an ECU reflash to fix this, and here's what they replied with:

"We would need to book your vehicle in to run a scan, to deterime if there
is any updates, i do not believe there are any related updates, unfortunatly
there would be a charge of $94.00 + taxes to scan the system. if there is an
update then we can charge that to MCI."

Anybody get this fixed, through dealer or otherwise aftermarket applications? Or do I get used to it and then sell the car for something older with a hard wired throttle. A laggy gas pedal is not what I'd consider "sporty".

 

[hectik1]

I think it is something to do with the drive-by-wire. Just have to adjust your driving style.

 

[Betelgeuse]

My car is exhibiting what appears to be worsening throttle response, taking up to a full second to respond to throttle input. Power is defintely fine, just the response is delayed. This delay in a manual transmission car can mean a stall when starting uphill, forcing you to use the handbrake. I'm not sure if its the ECU or the throttle-by-wire causing the problem.

I first noticed this problem when I tried to launch hard like I did in my old civic and found that pressing the gas didn't do what I expected, and the car just barely wheezed forward without sufficient revs. I'm used to the motor jumping to my requested throttle input right away, and then loading the motor with a full clutch release simultaneously. What resulted in tire chirp and aggressive foward movement in my civic has much a more cathardic response in my MS3. I heard this is called "Throttle tip-in" and is usually the cause of latent drive-by-wire systems.

I asked my dealer if there's an ECU reflash to fix this, and here's what they replied with:

"We would need to book your vehicle in to run a scan, to deterime if there
is any updates, i do not believe there are any related updates, unfortunatly
there would be a charge of $94.00 + taxes to scan the system. if there is an
update then we can charge that to MCI."

Anybody get this fixed, through dealer or otherwise aftermarket applications? Or do I get used to it and then sell the car for something older with a hard wired throttle. A laggy gas pedal is not what I'd consider "sporty".

I've read your other post. Sounds like you might have a throttle problem that the dealer needs to look at. I wouldn't consider the throttle response in the ms3 poor at all. It's actually very twitchy imo. You should not have any problems on hills or be forced to use the handbrake just to take off (unless they're really steep).

Did anyone at your dealer drive the car or did you demonstrate this for them?

Also, before jumping on the aftermarket bandwagon, you should consider driving another ms3 to see if it's really a problem with your car, or you not being used to the throttle.

This engine will not be as rev-happy as your civic but getting it up close to redline isn't a problem. It's just that for most situations you don't have to, nor do you need to clutch dump on take off.

 

[LukeP]

throttle response

After taking another long drive on a rainy evening, I can definitely say that the throttle tip-in is the only part where it lags, which is switch from idle to user input. Just off idle is when the delay is the most noticable.

When changing gears, I find much smoother and quicker response to my feathering if I keep on the throttle a hair, not letting the gas pedal go to rest. I dont mean letting the engine go back to idle, I mean letting off the gas pedal to decelerate the motor. Just a hair of tip-in to keep the computer from returning to idle programming. Not sure how to avoid the off-idle lag when starting up hill, except for some kind of wacky heal toe maneuver.

The engine certainly accelerates quickly - I didn't mean the motor itself was sluggish in any way. I think Mazda has a light flyweel on this sucker by default because it burns through RPMs like mad and decelerates just as fast. Its just that 500 ms "hesitation" before going off-idle.

Just try it in your driveway sometime, jab the throttle lift off right away, your foot will be well above your knee before the real throttle plate responds.

I'm using Shell V-Power exclusively.

I think this is just how drive by wire is....maybe not; maybe I should give my MS3 some better breathing with mods and see how that works; my civic had a K&N and some bigger exhaust plumbing and no turbocharger.

 

[dread]

Why the hell is the dealer charging you. Your car is under waranty and all problems are fixed for free. Go find another dealership.

 

[LBV]

I think you're definitley experiencing drive-by-wire throttle response at it's worst. You do get used to it eventually but it sounds like you just came from a cable-actuated throttle vehicle and are noticing it right off the bat..

 

[mr_mazda329]

Its definately a drive by wire lag thing. I've driven two cars with drive by wire ,05 Spec-v and the MS3. My 97 miata has telepathic throttle response, so its kinda weird with the whole drive by wire thing.

 

[Parkeway]

. My 97 miata has telepathic throttle response, so its kinda weird with the whole drive by wire thing.

Agreed. My '99 knew before I put my foot down as well - makes the MS3 feel downright lazy...

...till the boost kicks you in the pants...