Please, help with diagnostic

[ukrkoz]

Hi all

My son bought 08 Mazdaspeed turbo Saturday. Has very loud clicking noise coming from engine.

http://youtu.be/2RdB-GVP8cY

I looked around and some other forum told me it's infamous VVT actuator and timing chain tensioner. Basically, told me to bite bullet and take it to dealer for $1500 repair.

A lot of clicking is coming from this part:

which I do not know what it is. LOUD.

Before we do fork - well, my son does - for expensive repairs, any recommendations? I am aware - unfortunately, AFTER we bought her, that Mazda screwed up on thos parts so bad that they even extended warranty.

We changed oil today - not really much difference.

Thank you

 

[zoomzoomMSP]

isnt that the high pressure fuel pump?

 

[ukrkoz]

If it is, it's AWFULLY loud.

 

[MSMS3]

OP has circled the high pressure fuel pump. The VVT/timing chain noise would be coming from the far left (passenger side) side of the engine close to where the oil filler cap is located.

I would also observe that behind and below and toward the firewall from the high pressure fuel pump (between it and the turbo) is the electronic boost control solenoid, which can make a audible clicking sound under certain conditions.

Impossible for me to tell much from the video/audio clip. These engines do make some noise. Some of it is from the injectors firing, a "ticking" sound. It could be something normal or something ominous, since you really do have to be there and hear the sound live rather than as distorted by the poor audio quality of the video and the inability to isolate exact location. The ominous part of this could be a slightly bent connecting rod. Not saying that. Just can't tell.

There are inexpensive "stethoscopes" that can be used to pinpoint the exact source or sources of the noise.

Tell me, do you feel any vibration in the clutch pedal when engaging the clutch when in gear? If you do, do not drive the car. That would be a bent rod.

 

[ukrkoz]

We did listen to it with stethoscope.
Ticking - as that's best I can describe it - is all across the engine.
It is much louder from the part I circled on pic. LOUD.
For what it is, it sounds like poorly adjusted rocker arms, but I know now that this engine does not have any.
Timing chain side - I can see it through oil filler tube - does click too. Engine is overall very noisy. Noise almost goes away under even moderate load, at about 1000 rpms. Driving under load, engine sounds quite fine. Moderate tick, but not bad.
Clutch feels excellent!
I read so much about bad problem with timing tensioner and VVT actuator, that now any noise there is blamed on those.

This is my son's first car he bought on his own, he's very proud of it. I simply don't want him to blow engine. He's under "no rip it" curfew until we have it figured.
I can easily shoot better audio plus video, just need to charge camcorder, I used camera for one above.

I am, actually, quite good tree shade mechanic, worked on my cars since 1990, but do not want to screw something up, or have him into expensive repairs. We changed oil yesterday, as first inclination measure, it helped maybe some. I am quite disappointed in it, actually. 2 days of Google browsing showed TON of issues with those. And we always knew Mazdas as very reliable vehicles.

 

[zoomzoomMSP]

yeah, these cars do tend to make noise. as far as the high pressure fuel pump that you circled they are one of the weak links in the car, not saying its the cause of your noise but its is something that you can rebuild with much better internals for $300-$400 depending on what product you buy, you could then check that off the list. do you have anything that can monitor the performance of the fuel pump...like a dashhawk or AeroForce gauge? If you dont have anything get one!! seeing that your son has a modded car already, intake, Front mount intercooler, etc. upgrading the fuel pump should be on the list of things to do.
was the car bought modded or stock? how many miles on it? hard to diagnose from my computer.

 

[ukrkoz]

I totally understand and do appreciate your involvement. The other forum gave me load of toxic rudeness, and pages of it.

Anyhow.

This is not pic of his engine, I just pulled one off Google. He does have short CAI intake though, sort of home made deal, judging from poor welds.
THe only other mod we found so far is that they cut muffler off and replaced with straight pipe.

Car has 78000 miles. It obviously was owned by someone who didn't give rat's ars about keeping it in nice shape. Small stuff we can live with though.

Big issues are:

1. Very noisy engine. I am not used to engines being that loud. My 2000 Chevy pickup has none, neither do other cars. Even his 95 Eclipse runs much much quieter. Like I said - it's awfully sounding like loose rockers noise, very good description. tsa-tsa-tsa-tsa. Pump is the loudest on that end. I can replace pump myself, no biggie. I have seen them already. On the timing chain side it's just same tsa-tsa, but once in a while it's faint, dull tumm-tumm. Very faint though. I should be able to shoot better video tomorrow, he'll swing by after window tinting.

2. Clunk in suspension somewhere in the front. Driving, there's none, it's only when you go over a bump or similar, has to be up-down displacement. We had on lift, RMM was bust, replaced it, didn't really help much. The other suspect is sway bar bushings, as when you rock vehicle, you can see sway bar move back and for on crossmember. I am assuming, crossmember needs to be dropped to get to them, and I do not have lift. I am too old to do this on stands. We could not find anything else loose, and we checked every suspension component, whilst we had her on lift.

I also have question. Where is recalled pass side mount bolt #4? I am assuming, I can get to it from the top? I'll order repair manual for her next, but as of now, have to rely on forums help. One is already out of consideration, you guys here are my last hope.

Thank you.

 

[DarkAngel]

Sent you a PM .......

 

[ukrkoz]

Got it. Many thanks.

 

[zoomzoomMSP]

clunking in front end in most likely the sway bar bushings and or the front sway bar end links. i replaced both when i had the clunk and it went away. yes you have to drop the front end down to get to it..well at least i did, but i put an upgraded front sway bar set up in.

 

[ukrkoz]

Thank you. Links are fine. Sway bar moves almost 1/4 inch back and for on crossmember, when car is well rocked. Does crossmember have to go all the way down, or you can just lower it? Crossmember bolts normally allow quite some downward clearance, at least on any car I worked so far. Jackstand engine, release engine mounts, and lower crossmember?

 

[ukrkoz]

got it!!

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123774382-How-To-Replace-Front-Sway-Bar-Bushings

 

[MSMS3]

Might just want to pull the valve cover and look at the chain and tensioner and vvt. Sounds like the chain may be hitting the inside of the valve cover. Noise all across the engine left to right does sound like the injectors. They are loud. They are spraying at 1600+ psi direct injection. That's not like anythIng you have probably heard before.

 

[ukrkoz]

I need to go to dealership and listen to same year one in their parking lot. For comparison.
GDI injectors noise does make sense. Maybe I just over-reacting.

 

[ukrkoz]

OK, here's latest A/V from that engine. Cold start this morning. Don't think I can make it any better. Used old trick - tube - to bring sound to ca,corder mic.

It's still loading, should be live in 4 minutes.

http://youtu.be/1DmXjbyfEwo

I am either getting used to it, or oil change did help. Does not sound that terrible anymore.

 

[boosted1]

OK, here's latest A/V from that engine. Cold start this morning. Don't think I can make it any better. Used old trick - tube - to bring sound to ca,corder mic.

It's still loading, should be live in 4 minutes.

http://youtu.be/1DmXjbyfEwo

I am either getting used to it, or oil change did help. Does not sound that terrible anymore.

It sounds pretty normal. The High Pressure Fuel Pump sounds a bit loud, but that's all. The pump could be marginal, but you would need some data logging to check fuel pressure.

 

[ukrkoz]

Thank you, boosted.
It still does start up rattle, as in rattle, most of the time. Didn't do it on that vid. I'll have tensioner replaced next week. I found local shop that does nothing but Mazdas. Specialists. It's son's first "real" car he bought himself, I want to have it running well. Guy quoted VVT actuator, timing chain, and tensioner for $890, parts included. I'll feel better having this done. She's getting there. Will have foggy headlight done tomorrow, maybe sway bar bushings, we'll buff her monday, engine done tuesday...

 

[rmgedon69]

good deal.

I'm not sure if anyone already answered your question about the motor mount # 4 location but, it's located @ the bottom of the battery tray. The old bolt has a # 8 marking on it while the new bolt should have # 10.
You'll be able to tell if the previous owner had the recalled done just by checking the stamped # on bolt head.

And props to you by not leaving your son hanging. Hopefully, he'll learn from you.

 

[ukrkoz]

No, you the first one. I'll get to it maybe later today, we have sway bar bushings planned to do. We slowly moving forward. Foggy headlight replaced, door trim fixed, front brake pads done, will have her buffed tomorrow, engine done next week, will do final oil change after. Driver side mirror does not shake anymore. She's very challenging to find right parts and I am personally offended with Mazda dealership attitude, so my foot will not cross their doorstep anymore.
Thank you. On both counts.

 

[rmgedon69]

Lol...great.

Challenging as it may, just have patience & it'll work out for the better.

...and don't get me started w/ incompetent dealership (not all of 'em, just most of 'em). I say, do it yourself if you want something done the way you want it done.