Overheating at Track

[low_psi]

It wasn't until I had swapped a P5 radiator for a PWR unit that I had the ScanGauge to tell me the actual water temp number. On track, with the heater on full blast, the car runs 225-240*F but the stock gauge barely moves if at all while its running this hot. Because of this, I don't know if I has overheating with the P5 radiator.

Cooling system: PWR radiator, 2 fans, heat wrapped lower radiator hose, new Tstat. System holds pressure, cap holds pressure, cylinder compression is perfect. Temp sensor is functioning properly. 80K miles on water pump, but no leaks around gasket. Water temp flucuates 20+*F once up to temp so the water pump impeller seems to be spinning. Exhaust leak between turbo and manifold is contributing to the heat. System is properly bled.

Even cruising around town/highway with holes punched in the t-stat the car will run 205-215*F. I purchased a Gates lower temp tstat only to find its a stock temp tstat. The holes in the tstat slow the time it takes to get hot, but doesn't reduce final temp.

Anyone have any suggestions? Please do not make suggestions without an explaination. Exhaust gasket will be changed shortly.

-Marc

 

[Gobbracing]

Have you tried adding some RedLine WaterWetter?

I had a similar experience with my previous track car. My mechanic also adjusted my Prestone/water mix for high heat. It helped lower the temp by 10-20F.

 

[low_psi]

Water Wetter/MoCool, etc haven't made a difference.

 

[aMaff]

bump for some help for the man. Have you tested the thermostat?

 

[low_psi]

I've tried 3 of them . The current one is partially gutted. I now get CELs for it warming up too slow, but it'll still reach 200+*F once warmed up. Ordered new exhaust/turbo gaskets yesterday, hopefully that'll help things once all the leaks are gone.

I want to go back to the track...

 

[aMaff]

have you tried putting the Rad back to stock? You said you replaced it and you've been overheating ever since....


Is it losing coolant or is it staying constant? Any boiling over?

 

[Tom03es]

What coolant mixture are you running? For a track car in Texas, I would have about 10-15% coolant and the rest be CLEAN (distilled) water and water wetter. Coolant is that great of an actual coolant- the water is really where the heat transfer is taking place. You just need a little coolant in there to help lubricate the water pump and provide a little freezing resistance.

 

[low_psi]

Haven't put the P5 radiator in, but there are no leaks and its getting flow through it. I was probably overheating with the stock one, but I didn't have the ScanGauge to see the actual temp. Keep in mind, that even when the car is at 235*F, the stock temp gauge is pegged in the normal position. Its definately boiling over once it gets to about 225*F. Only losing a lil bit of coolant due to boiling over.

I'm running 5-10% coolant, just to keep things from rusting.

 

[ForceFed]

Here is my question.....
What temp do you expect to see?

And what temp Is the OEM Stat..200..210..220?`

 

[low_psi]

OEM tstat is 82*C(180*F) IIRC. With a big aluminum radiator, two fans, heatwrapped hoses and holes in the tstat, I would hope the car would run under 200*F on a 90*F day. Its running 200*F+ even on the highway.

If the car ran 180-190*F daily and 200-205*F at the track I would be happy. Anything over 200*F and the stock ECU pulls timing like its going out of style.

 

[ZoomZoomH]

does the protege have a plastic shroud underneith the bumper to force airflow into the radiator?

 

[low_psi]

Yes, there is a plastic undertray.

 

[Tom03es]

Do you have a FMIC? AC?

Even on my car, I've often thought that there isn't enough open space in the bumper to allow sufficient airflow into the radiator. Looking at the front profile of my car, the center of the radiator appears to be choked off from any direct airflow. I've thought about using some sort of NACA scoop(s) in the front bumper and a hose to get air across the radiator. Or maybe you could figure out something using your foglights that you aren't using.

What type of fans are you using? It shouldn't matter at speed, but they might help to keep things under control when you're not moving fast.

And yeah, the stock temp gauge is worthless. I have an Autometer water temp gauge and have noticed the lack of movement in the stock gauge.

Here's an idea- what about making a shroud? Some of the air the enters through the front grill can spill around the radiator instead of going through it. A shroud will prevent that- or reduce it anyway.

Here's another idea- windshield washer sprayers rigged up to spray across the radiator/intercooler. Obviously, the water will increase the heat transfer coefficient. Down side is that with a tradiational windshield washer sprayer set up, it only sprays when a button is pressed. On track, you've got a few more things to worry about then holding down a button. Maybe you could just soak it down on the straight- if there is one.

Other than that, you're sure you don't have an air bubble in the cylinder head?

 

[03.5MSP]

You probablly did this already but.... Did you wire up your fans so that they both run at the same time??

 

[shane02pro5]

With all my recent datalogging and tuning I get to operating temp and I'm around 200F and after several hard runs over and over I never get above 210F+/- even on the hottest days for too long. This morning my intake temps were around 80-85 and my coolant was still 195-200. Just referencing the norm.

 

[low_psi]

shane- thanks for the reference numbers. with the drilled tstat my car will sit happily at 180-190*F in 70-80*F weather but anything 85*F+ the car wants to run in the 200's*F

I'll eventually be building shrouds for the front of the car, but right now I'm trying to fix the problem, rather than take shots in the dark. I have new gaskets for the turbo and manifold to fix the leak pouring hot air on the water crossover pipe... hopefully that improves temps.

 

[DubbyDoo]

i have this same problem on the stock rad i run at 180 driving but when i get to stop and go it jumps up to 220 fast

 

[LinuxRacr]

So what did you find out?

 

[Perro del Sol]

At Mid Ohio and other tracks in the summer, the car runs 197-205 on the scan guage, I still have the stock radiator on the car. Maybe SM76 ( Bill Brees) can chime in here, as he has had his MSP on the track for a while now, I know he records a lot of data on his car.

 

[low_psi]

Well the overheating is under control once I added shrouded Flexalite fans. I made a new fan circuit that turns the fans on at 190*F. Out on track the fans run constantly and the temp gets up to 220-225*F. It will may have gone over but running the heater brought it back down to acceptable. I've only tracked the car once in the summer with these fans so we'll see how it runs when I go back to the track in May. At the fall and winter track days the temp has been great!

I'm also building a duct into a spare hood to help extract some heat. Hopefully that'll be done before May. I'm going to experiment with putting a stock thermostat back in also. I'm afraid the water is moving through the radiator too fast and therefore not being cooled as much using the gutted thermostat. I'll report back then.