OMG! Tier 2 Tune 280 HP 360 lb ft torque at the Wheel! Hold On!

[AL Cx5]

Has anyone upgraded their DRTuned, turbo, to David's Tier 2 tuning? What was the tuning experience like and what is the final product?

David's Tier 2 has been in the making for three years. This tune should release more of potential of the turbos. I'm about ready to pull the trigger on his Tier 2 package. The Tier 1 package is very nice at low RPM. The engine is about to make spool up and make power and the ECU turns off the power. I understand the Tier 2 makes much more power, over a wider RPM range.

Looking at the dyno curves this tune is rocking at 3,500 RPM! David explains the Mazda ECU is not making nice on their chassis dyno. So the curve doesn't accurately show the power.

At this point, David is offering this to Tier 1 customers and will open it to first time users soon.

Maybe some of the CX-30 guys will read this and respond.

Gentle and polite suggestion to forum minders, may we have a Performance Forum?

DRTuned Tier 2

 

[N7turbo]

What is the issue on the dyno?

 

[AL Cx5]

What is the issue on the dyno?

Newer cars are difficult to dyno. Traction control thinks it lost traction, the trans shifts when it's programed, torque management is a tangled web and so forth. Dyno operators learn how to trick the ecu and tcu on other platforms. Folks chassis dynoing Mazdas are few and far between.

I have standalone ecu and tcu on my race car. These make chassis dyno sessions a breeze. No traction control. My tcu has a dyno mode that turns off torque management and shift rpm. It will wind the engine to the moon. Unfortunately our Mazdas have rudimentary tuning features. Thus this is a big breakthrough for our platform.

David talks in vague terms but reading between the lines he has issues like above and probably others.

 

[N7turbo]

I have thought about that before. Ideally you want to dyno in a 1:1 gear but that isn't always possible due to speed or automatic upshifting, etc. So with the Mazda you can use a lower gear if the correct compensation is used in the dyno software. And there is a combination of driving mode, manual shift mode, and certain gears that will bang the rev limiter and not upshift. I know because it happened to me once and really startled me. I'll have to test it again.

That doesn't solve the issue with TCS though.

 

[AL Cx5]

I have thought about that before. Ideally you want to dyno in a 1:1 gear but that isn't always possible due to speed or automatic upshifting, etc. So with the Mazda you can use a lower gear if the correct compensation is used in the dyno software. And there is a combination of driving mode, manual shift mode, and certain gears that will bang the rev limiter and not upshift. I know because it happened to me once and really startled me. I'll have to test it again.

That doesn't solve the issue with TCS though.

You have experimented with your settings more than I. After doing the initial modifications and tuning, we drive the car. It's rare we ever put the pedal to the mat.

We chassis dyno in 3rd gear, less than 1:1 so the wheel speed is not so high. We also can make a simulate 1/8 or 1/4 mile run on the dyno. Speed is approaching 180 MPH. We double strap for this set up!

We use the dyno as a tuning tool, not about peak HP but % gain. As they say, dynos lie, the track don't...

It would be nice if David took his car to the track and ran it stock, Tier 1 and Tier 2 and posted the time slips. THEN we would know how much the package gained.

I have the time, between race season, to tinker a bit on the CX 5 and do six logs for David to dial the car in with my mods. I need to get my wife on board. Her first reaction, this car zooms if I press the pedal down a little to far....

Tier 1 IS so much more responsive than the OEM tune. Tier 2 should be a leap forward...

As you know, it's easy to modify past an easy to drive DD to a car that one needs to be vigilant or it will get away from ya...

I hope some other DRTuned customer is an early adopter and has experience with the Tier 2.

 

[N7turbo]

Oh and for dyno testing only, you can pull the ABS fuse to disable TCS. Just don't forget to plug it back in when you're done.

 

[sinistriel@]

What is the issue on the dyno?

My car was the car used for t1 development and a good part of t2 before I sold it. The way the ecu uses torque targets against speed and load have a very difficult time generating the same load target on the dyno vs an actual road. Then add into the fact the AWD on the 3 is constantly trying to equal torque under load it throws a fit and sets codes during and after each run. It can be a very tedious process to get the same consistency on the dyno vs what the logs taken on the roads by multiple people have shown.

 

[N7turbo]

@sinistriel@ would you say a calculated result from a real run on the road is best?

 

[AL Cx5]

My car was the car used for t1 development and a good part of t2 before I sold it. The way the ecu uses torque targets against speed and load have a very difficult time generating the same load target on the dyno vs an actual road. Then add into the fact the AWD on the 3 is constantly trying to equal torque under load it throws a fit and sets codes during and after each run. It can be a very tedious process to get the same consistency on the dyno vs what the logs taken on the roads by multiple people have shown.

Good info!

And what was your impression of T2, still in development vs T1?

 

[sinistriel@]

@sinistriel@ would you say a calculated result from a real run on the road is best?

Unfortunately a calculated run from a log taken on the street has been the most repeatable consistent numbers between boost and MAF flow. On the dyno it varies terribly, the car just does not like being on one. For example when we dyno'd my car the stock tune would put down anywhere from 170-210hp depending on how 'happy' it was on the run, very frustrating. If we could find a way to put the car in a Dyno mode like some other vehicles I think we could see good repeatable results.

The issue with using virtual dynos is they are very easy to manipulate if those are your intentions. The EVO X community was kind of the start of using virtual dynos because of how notorious that car was originally to dyno.

Daniel, myself and a few others went through a good amount of data logs to get a correction amount on the same stretch of road in the same conditions to put something out we feel is accurate.

 

[sinistriel@]

Good info!

And what was your impression of T2, still in development vs T1?

T2 is very good, its a noticeably large jump in power. Where T1 was focused on cleaning up the factory tune for consistency and feel this is adding a very noticeable power bump. I had all but the last few test files on my car before I traded it and they were very good, very smooth, no stuttering or odd power delivery issues.

 

[AL Cx5]

@sinistriel@ what are your thoughts concerning the drive line life?

Trans, drive shaft, axles and CVs with T1 HP and Torque increase.

I know this is a loaded question. Over on a not to be mentioned domestic platform we broke all of the above and a few other things at the drag strip with drag radials/sticky track and high stall torque converters and launching at WOT when we upped the HP 20%.

I'm happy the injectors and fuel pump can handle the increase in performance. We had to change injectors and fuel pump or add a BAP.

I don't plan to abuse the CX5 at a drag strip. I would like to go once to confirm the power and upset some Stangs. But if the drive line is not up to the task, it's not a deal killer to get T2.

And, does T2 raise the shift RPM at WOT?

Do you still drive a Mazda?

 

[sinistriel@]

For the CX-5 I would not have any concerns for the drivetrain with added power. I did have a raised rev limiter of 6300 in manual mode, its not yet possible in auto, the TCM will force a shift. I'm not sure if that rolled out to all of T2.

I currently do not have a Mazda, I had a deal on a GR Corolla Auto pop up that was too good to ignore.

 

[N7turbo]

What I am concerned about is the PTU / rear diff. Those don't seem to be that robust in these cars. They don't seem to want you using the rear diff for an extended period out of concern of overheating it.