Now using the MAP sensor..

[Kooldino]

Dana is not and has never run the TM. He tried to run the maf for maybe a week if that. He only asked a few times for help with setting it up. Danas style is to do things on his own. Thats cool because he has learned many things this way. The only problem I have with it is he that started to MAP BS.

Hey, I let people know about the MAP way of doing things because it's simpler. Less support calls made to you, less questions you have to answer, IMO.

It has not proved to help anyone. Dana could not get the MAF to work and then call out to everyone that it cannot be done.

I never said it could not be done. I know damn well it can be done, I've seen Proteges with it done. I've driven Proteges with it done. You're jumping to conclusions, Nick. I just said that I felt that MAP was a quicker, simpler way to tune, and had a couple of advantages.

Some of you guys seem to thing that he knows what he is talking about. Good for you, time will tell how much he knows.

Oh, the irony. Nick, we've known each other for a couple of years and I don't have a problem with you. I'm not going to post any personal attacks on you, and I ask you have the same respect for me.

Ask youself a questions. On one side you have the people who tune right with the MAF and have no problems can come here and say it works. Why are they wrong to say so? One the other side one guy comes here[Dana], who is not a tuner or understands as much about cars as he thinks he does, but he is still learning as he goes.

I'm not a tuner? That's news to me. According to some big aftermarket tuners in the Subaru world, I'm a good tuner. I've tuned multiple cars with multiple EM systems. They all worked fine. But since I don't like to fill a matrix with arbritrary numbers (ie, the analog map on the MPI), I'm not a tuner, according to you. :'(

Dean's car that you did thousands of dollars worth of work to (well beyond what I have done to my car), and tuned yourself was only able to beat my own car in the 1/4 mile by a few tenths of a second, and he did so on 116 octane RACE GAS. I ran 94 octane. PS, I had street tires that were worn to the belts, and he had DOT approved drag slicks (with a limited slip, no less).

My point is that a MAP based system can perform just as well as a MAF based system. It also drives very smoothly with minimal tuning effort. Never jerky when the boost comes on. Better than many stock boosted cars. What's not to love?

Anyway, Nick - how about we call this quits already? There's reasons I like MAP, and there's reasons you don't. We're not going to change each other's minds. As long as they both do what the end user wants, what's it matter? Now let's get back to diagnosing Pat's car, eh?

(friday)

 

[terbow]

Well since we have to wait since its the 02 sensor presently.

can we get a pro and con or whatever u want to call it, for the maf and map way? Ive never tuned, and id like to just see what both methods are about.

 

[Kooldino]

This one did get by me. I did not tune with a USB from the start. Every now and then I would get a datalog e-mailed to me and I could not get it to run. Never knew why until a customer with the MPI found it out. Now I always tune with a USB. I found an adaptor that work 100% fine all of the time. I can get them if anyone needs one.

Nick, list the part # or something just so we have it.

Personally, when I used to tune with a USB to serial adapter, it was a nightmare. I guess it's some glitch in the software, or maybe some kind of synchronization thing, but it's been much more stable since I started using the serial cable. Speaking of software, are there any newer versions of the MPI software planned?

 

[Kooldino]

I know this is going to come across a little rude or harsh, but why haven't you replaced your o2 sensor yet?

He probably never had a reason to in the past. I wouldn't arbitrarily replace o2 sensors either. I'd wait until I saw a problem.

 

[Kooldino]

Well since we have to wait since its the 02 sensor presently.

can we get a pro and con or whatever u want to call it, for the maf and map way? Ive never tuned, and id like to just see what both methods are about.

Please God, no. I'm sick of talking about it already.

 

[terbow]

oh ok. i didnt notice any talking about it just disagreeing without details. sorry.

 

[roni]

He probably never had a reason to in the past. I wouldn't arbitrarily replace o2 sensors either. I'd wait until I saw a problem.

I agree, arbitrarily replacing o2s can be costly.

Well he identified it as a problem, it occurred to me that it would be pointless and potentially dangerous for him to continue tuning a piggy back with bad o2s.

 

[acidbug]

I actually have had good luck using mpi tuner w/ serial cable..and..i went out to purchae a usb connector..that converst serial to usb..and had nothing but problems...it's up for sale if anyone wants it!

Chas

 

[Kooldino]

I actually have had good luck using mpi tuner w/ serial cable..and..i went out to purchae a usb connector..that converst serial to usb..and had nothing but problems...it's up for sale if anyone wants it!

Chas

My point exactly. But unfortnately, some folks don't have serial ports. Hopefully Nick can post more info about the diamond in the rough he found.

Anyway, back on topic. Linux, and updates?

 

[JDM Sam]

Anyways after 80,000 miles most o2 sensors are worn and dont read as accurately. Any CEL will throw the ECU into a fit. Once Patrick puts the 2 NEW Denso O2s in. We will check to see if the same code is thrown. Also, in effort to combat the CEL, he has the non foulers and a MIL eliminator waiting to be installed.

 

[Bigg Tim]

Dean's car that you did thousands of dollars worth of work to (well beyond what I have done to my car), and tuned yourself was only able to beat my own car in the 1/4 mile by a few tenths of a second, and he did so on 116 octane RACE GAS. I ran 94 octane. PS, I had street tires that were worn to the belts, and he had DOT approved drag slicks (with a limited slip, no less).

Drag racing is almost as much as a drivers race as it is a show of power. That doesn't mean anything, maybe you are a better driver then he is.

My point is that a MAP based system can perform just as well as a MAF based system. It also drives very smoothly with minimal tuning effort. Never jerky when the boost comes on. Better than many stock boosted cars. What's not to love?

My MAF based tuned setup drove BETTER then stock. I had no jerking or anything like that. I am only using xtra injectors right now, testing the new option, and my car runs noticably different now. It doesn't run as good as it did before, maybe because I am not getting as much fuel fired sequentially as I did before.

Yes the tuning may be a bit more involved with the MAF setup, but if you are trying to get the most out of your car, then that's a sacrifice. The tuning on this unit is a lot simpler then others out there. You will never get an EMS that is idiot proof, it's an involved process to tune a car and if someone can't get this thing right, then they don't need to use ANY EMS!!!

 

[Kooldino]

Drag racing is almost as much as a drivers race as it is a show of power. That doesn't mean anything, maybe you are a better driver then he is.

That's true, but he his car had enough advantages over mine that it shouldn't have been close. I guess comparing trap speeds would be better since they're less driver dependent.

My MAF based tuned setup drove BETTER then stock. I had no jerking or anything like that.

I do recall driving behind you while leaving the dyno and seeing big puffs of black smoke while you accelerated.

Yes the tuning may be a bit more involved with the MAF setup, but if you are trying to get the most out of your car, then that's a sacrifice.

My point is that you can get just as much out of it with the MAP.

The tuning on this unit is a lot simpler then others out there. You will never get an EMS that is idiot proof, it's an involved process to tune a car and if someone can't get this thing right, then they don't need to use ANY EMS!!!

Gotta disagree with you there. Ambiguous numbers in the analog map is not comparable to any other EMS I've used. Ambiguous numbers in the injection map (instead of duty cycle), aren't exactly user friendly, although they do their job.

Anyway, enough with the OT chat.

 

[Bigg Tim]

I do recall driving behind you while leaving the dyno and seeing big puffs of black smoke while you accelerated.

Dude, you knew I only had about a 20min tune. I changed to the new setup the same day I drove up there and never got a chance to tune it. Once I got a chance to tune it is when I tuned out the surge and made it run smooth and ran on that map for well over 3 months before I changed things to test for Nick.

 

[MPNick]

Yes you are right Dana, you know all. After all you have been doing this for what almost 18 months now. So you have now learned all there is to know about tuning. Yes you have built an engine, hit 13s and used the AEM/ MPI and maybe others. So yes I am wrong you must know all there is to know.

As for how much better one is over the other. Lets stop the talk and go to the dyno and then the track. You like to talk the talk how about walk the walk.

94 octane, not what you posted in another thread. You posted that you got 100 octane. This BS is not worth the time to go back and look it up.

 

[70]

Yes you are right Dana, you know all. After all you have been doing this for what almost 18 months now. So you have now learned all there is to know about tuning. Yes you have built an engine, hit 13s and used the AEM/ MPI and maybe others. So yes I am wrong you must know all there is to know.

As for how much better one is over the other. Lets stop the talk and go to the dyno and then the track. You like to talk the talk how about walk the walk.

94 octane, not what you posted in another thread. You posted that you got 100 octane. This BS is not worth the time to go back and look it up.

Wow...

 

[LinuxRacr]

My car for some reason decided to drive better tonight. After getting some new tires, JDM Sam and I headed out for a drive, and I was getting perfect low 12 A/F ratios. While this was happening, I noticed that my O2 sensor voltage was sweeping like normal, and then when I hit boost, my 1st O2 sensor clamped like it was supposed to at around 370 mv, and my 2nd O2 read rich around 970 mv. This had not been the trend for the last couple of weeks. It had been sluggish in sweeping, and would hang more toward 0 volts. I wonder when I turn on the car again, will this "phenomenon" be gone? The new O2 sensors should arrive tomorrow. Maybe we will see.

 

[LinuxRacr]

Car ran great again this morning on the way to work, but is starting to show signs of returning to its former state.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

Linux, what buggers me is this. I drove around on a pair of bad o2 sensors for a little while when I had the fuel pressure regulator. I screwed the sensors up after manhandling them loose on my downpipe install, but thats besides the point. Point is, even with the 02 sensors inoperable, my car never ran lean under boost, it boosted like it always had been.

perhaps you posted this before hand, but what proof do you have that your sensor(s) are faulty?

 

[Focus]

perhaps you posted this before hand, but what proof do you have that your sensor(s) are faulty?

He posted a picture a little earlier on about the wires being frayed, and If I am not mistaken the car has 120,000 Miles + on it.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

He posted a picture a little earlier on about the wires being frayed, and If I am not mistaken the car has 120,000 Miles + on it.

ok cool, does the car throw any codes?