NGK Extended Reach Spark Plugs

[TurfBurn]

Yeah my temps are rather low. I'm guessing my timing has to be awfully retarded and I know I'm a hair rich (around 12.2 under boost), so that seems to help probably. I'm not a big fan of the EGT being in one runner, that means I see what happens at piston 4, but not really what the others are getting, so that to me is somewhat questionable, although from my experience in hearing from others (follow me there ) cylinder 4 tends to be one of the ones that loves to go... so who knows. But anyway. I'll be keeping an eye on my exhaust temps and seeing.

Igradsil, you should consider getting the JandS. No more detonation!!! You'd never have to worry about it. I don't know how much of a fan you are or aren't, or have or haven't read about it, but it's a fantastic tool. Mine should be here between tomorrow and Tuesday. Then install time baby! Then I can finally bump up boost.

Are you guys forged? or running 12 psi on your stock internals? Just curious .

I'm hopefully going to have a chance to run some tests and I'll give you guys some output temps based of controlled runs on a single day to see the difference between the plugs. The only crappy thing is that you aren't ever supposed to torque your plugs down on a hot aluminum head... can screw your threads...

Got a VERY early day tomorrow. so I should rock and roll...

Later.

Steve

 

[igdrasil]

TurfBurn:


Errmmm Your Sig Says Stage 4..is that a MIcrotech or something?

If you have low temps, then you are running rich or advanced timing. Probably in your case if running microtech, then is running very rich, if its your stock ECU then its the advanced timing and rich.

I was going to get the J&S but, I dont know, knock sensors does not recognize ping/detonation well above 4000rpms. There are so many factors that got me confused.

So Im installing the MPI, tunning on a Dyno and a Knock monitor. thats it for me.

I like to run advanced timing and lean ...we will see.

Im sure our motors can run 17 or more psi, but you will need to get the box lighter. I have a contact here in PR that runs his stock 1.8L protege @ 17psi daily, he likes to run a lot on the track (11.7s w/slicks and 12.1s w/ street tires) and on the streets, stock motor.

 

[TurfBurn]

Yes, I guess by Terry's definition the microtech and the massive injectors etc that are on my car make it the Spool Stage 4.

My wideband indicates that I'm right around 12.2 in boost. I'm still dialing in some of the AFR's, but pretty much under boost I'll be between 12.2 and 12.6 when I'm done. Also, once I get the JandS in I'll advance my timing a good bit too hopefully.

Keep in mind that the JandS overcomes some of the knock sensor issues above 4,000 rpm's by very specifically looking at a particular window where it knows that knock can or can't occur, that way it doesn't pick up the "noise" of the engine. Essentially it get's rid of a large amount of the piston travel as far as where it listens. That way it can still remain rather accurate in the high rpm's. I've worked with it on little Beavis's car and we don't get many triggers up top. But we can definitely see the JandS become active if we start advancing too much or leaning out the mixture too much. I've been very very impressed with the unit.

Advancing timing and going lean is typically not a good combo from my understanding. Because the more advanced you make your timing the earlier the spark is occuring (hence advanced, advancing the time before TDC that the spark occurs), and thus you are creating a "longer" burn time while the piston is being compressed and then effectively increase your combustion chamber temperature at TDC significantly. Combining the two is a bad idea basically.. Either run rich and advanced or lean and retarded.

Good to know you think our engines can run that much safely. I'll run lower daily, but I'll probably tune out some higher boost levels for some track days. But I'm very conservative overall in my tuning. I'd rather a safe engine that makes a good amount of power rather than a ragged engine making maximum power.

TurfBurn:


Errmmm Your Sig Says Stage 4..is that a MIcrotech or something?

If you have low temps, then you are running rich or advanced timing. Probably in your case if running microtech, then is running very rich, if its your stock ECU then its the advanced timing and rich.

I was going to get the J&S but, I dont know, knock sensors does not recognize ping/detonation well above 4000rpms. There are so many factors that got me confused.

So Im installing the MPI, tunning on a Dyno and a Knock monitor. thats it for me.

I like to run advanced timing and lean ...we will see.

Im sure our motors can run 17 or more psi, but you will need to get the box lighter. I have a contact here in PR that runs his stock 1.8L protege @ 17psi daily, he likes to run a lot on the track (11.7s w/slicks and 12.1s w/ street tires) and on the streets, stock motor.

 

[midnightracr]

Also I talked to Nick from WagnerMotorsports (when I was ordering my turbo kit) & he said for me running only 8psi the Mazdaspeed plugs would be plenty good for 8psi & to only upgrade to the colder plugs for when i'm boosting 12 or more

Bumpity, bump, bump

 

[YP5 Toronto]

FYI....While I was lurking around the Probe boards...I found this PN for an EXTENDED REACH NGK Iridium IX spark plug.

ZFR6FIX-11 - Part number 6441

I believe earlier in this post it was also noted that they don't produce this in a 7 range. These are going to be more expensive.

Has anyone tried these?

 

[TurfBurn]

LOL... Iridium... sorry... rates up there for me with the gas molecule aligner that promises better gas mileage and lower emissions!

But a good find and good info for those who swear to the Iridium difference.

 

[LinuxRacr]

BTW, I have new pictures of my old plugs. HOT is all I have to say:
(nervous)

 

[igdrasil]

BTW, I have new pictures of my old plugs. HOT is all I have to say:
(nervous)

OMG!!!! THATS RUNNING LEAN! Where those your current plugs?
When you pulled off those?

 

[TurfBurn]

holy shizzit those are hott!!! What kind of EGT and AFR's were you running? Are those your extended reach plugs or just BK series plugs or what??

 

[LinuxRacr]

All I can say is thank you J&S! I am constantly now having to re-adjust my RRFPR to keep consistant A/F ratio number now. I keep it around 12 now, but it jumps up when I enter boost sometimes, and I add fuel. Problem fixed until the weather, or something else, and then I'm too rich. I doing my best to get this damn Stand Alone installed, but have some stuff to aquire. I'm almost ready to say fuckit, and get the MPI Tuner.

 

[TurfBurn]

Gotta love that toy... mine should be here any day now!! Get that bad boy in and then I can up my boost and tune things out further and get my timing adjusted in the way I want.

Do you have the standalone wired in yet? or is it other issues at this point..

 

[LinuxRacr]

No, it is still in the box. I plan to at least check for good signals from various sensors today by tapping into the wires.

 

[PaulMP3]

Someone want to explain to me, how you can tell your running lean or Hot by looking at the plugs. I know you have o check for whiteness, but not sure where it is suppose to get to.

 

[igdrasil]

Someone want to explain to me, how you can tell your running lean or Hot by looking at the plugs. I know you have o check for whiteness, but not sure where it is suppose to get to.

Simple, they should not show whiteness like that. Only near the tip.
Blue arrow (should not go past over this mark)
green arrow (shows how far temps where reaching.

This shows; or the plug is too hot for the application, or the car is leaning out.

 

[PaulMP3]

I dont really understand how you can tell to go to a colder or hotter plug. Where should the green arrow be if you have the correct heat range plug?


I have recently had a few misfire problems with these extended reach plugs. Im not blaming it totally on the plugs, i have been running higher boost then i did with other plugs so i cant really compare. I wanna change them, any suggestions. I might go back to the ones i originally ran when i first got turbo'd. They are the NGk's that came in the spool kits. I will get the # tomorrow.

 

[TurfBurn]

a colder or hotter plug is really about how much contact there is between the ceramic and the threads. The more contact there is between the ceramic and the threaded part of the plug (the sleeve or what not) the "colder" the plug is because it'll stay cooler by conducting more heat out to the block. The reverse obviously for a hotter plug.

I think he is saying that the green arrow should be where the blue arrow is. I've never had plugs run hot in the least (typically am carbon fouling actually... too rich and the like) but my timing and fuel and so forth are still a bit "out".

 

[igdrasil]

Yeah, blue arrow shows where it should be.

Anyway, I prefer to see a black plug when I pull them, So, Im going back to 8grade plugs and smaller gap = R5672A-7 -> too bad it send some noise to the radio.

 

[CRDMS1]

OK. Reading the whole dang thread, I can't determine which plugs might be the safest for my flashed MSP running at mild boost levels (8-9psi). Only engine bolt-ons so far are intake and FMIC.

I've been using the BKR7E gapped at 0.030" for the past 6k miles or so without issues. It's been about 2k miles since I last checked the plugs, but they looked in good shape. I'm about to replace them, and I'll post pics of the condition they're in.

Peace...(hippy)

 

[TurfBurn]

I never trust manufacturer gapping... I gapped the ZF plugs at 35 thousandths... I have some weird crap happen up at 6000 rpm's at 7 psi... don't know if it's my fuel maps on the microtech or the plugs.... once I get a JandS in and get going I'll see.. too bad I have like 3 sets of the ZF plugs... and no BK's around anywhere.

 

[PaulMP3]

I never trust manufacturer gapping... I gapped the ZF plugs at 35 thousandths... I have some weird crap happen up at 6000 rpm's at 7 psi... don't know if it's my fuel maps on the microtech or the plugs.... once I get a JandS in and get going I'll see.. too bad I have like 3 sets of the ZF plugs... and no BK's around anywhere.

was the feeling at 6k a breaking up, loss of power? i had something like this happen right at 6k a few times since i have had the Extended reach plugs in. I heard no pinging, just loss of power.