NEWS! Apex'i S-AFC II will work

[505zoom]

mine goes open loop regardless of throttle position. 4000k

 

[perfworks]

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h58.pdf
open vs. closed loop, as all modern ecu's (including ours) run. it doesn't block off everything, only the o2 sensor reading to control the air/fuel mixture, which gets replaced by the value in the fuel map when the o2 sensor gets ignored. the reason s-afc wouldn't work was the voltage requirement of our maf (ours- 5-10v, s-afc- 0-5v). i can probably get ahold of an s-afc to test, just not an s-afcII.

this is not true. the meter in the protege is from 1.5v to 5v

1.5 KO
1.8 idle
2.5 2500 rpm
4.6-4.7 WOT

 

[jred321]

i was just going on what i had read in other posts, now i know though

 

[EVILSRT]

Ok.......so will it work or not?? Im still confused

 

[flat_black]

I can give you a firm 'maybe', AZSpeed. The proof is in the pudding, so they say, so we'll have to wait and see what the actual people testing it have to say.

 

[aftershock63]

I want one and as soon as I get the money I'm going to buy one and get it to work. Same wiht the Dis-2 I'm going to find a way to get it to work. It really can't be that hard. Just need some ingenuity and a goal and boom you can get it done.

 

[flat_black]

Bang! I got something. =) I have the wiring diagrams from APEX'i for the S-AFC 2 as it's supposed to be hooked up to the Mazda Protege5 (Actually, the FS-ZE Mazda Familia Sport20 S-Wagon, but I can at least compare them). I _also_ have a printout from the Mazda dealer on the pin layout, so I'll compare notes, and see what I find. =) I'll let you know!

 

[flat_black]

Wow... After looking at the two, the harness connectors look to be two TOTALLY different animals. So, this will be of no help. I guess I'll have to find out of the MAF has the same signal range in both models somehow. *shrugs* I'll keep looking into it.

 

[FC3s Boy]

did you try calling mazda motorsports to see if it might work?

 

[flat_black]

Havn't given them a call, but I've looked around. It looks to me like the car has variable conditions under which it hits open loop, which is a real pain. =/ There's almost no way to avoid it going into open loop and still have it receive even remotely acurate of a signal, despite the S-AFC 2... Perhaps all the negative posts are just getting to me, but I'm starting to lose hope, here. Heh. Ahh, well. I'll start asking around.

 

[Kenetix]

Whoa whoa whoa. The apexi diagrams are not for the same ecu as we have. We have Fords ECU where as Mazda in Japan gets, you guessed it, mazda's ecu. You cant compare pin outs for the wiring diagrams because the ecu's are different.

 

[xelderx]

This is all going to come back to the Apexi not working on the OBDII ECU's. You can hook it up and it will display all the right information but it won't gain you any performance at WOT and maybe (and its a big maybe)...barely noticable performance anywhere else. I believe that this battle was lost before it started. We need that OBDI ECU like nobody's business.

 

[jred321]

This is all going to come back to the Apexi not working on the OBDII ECU's. You can hook it up and it will display all the right information but it won't gain you any performance at WOT and maybe (and its a big maybe)...barely noticable performance anywhere else. I believe that this battle was lost before it started. We need that OBDI ECU like nobody's business.

tell 2g dsm guys that it doesn't work on obdII. the issue isn't whether it works on obdII or not, it's whether it works on our ecu's. the obdII has nothing to do with it.

 

[Kenetix]

True. I thought it used to be a volatge difference on the MAF but Perfworks is saying outherwise. But, just because or ECU's are different from the ones in the JDM Mazdas, that doesnt mean it SHOULDNT work. I mean, both mafs are going to be the same I would think.

Also, on the first gen AFC, NO FS series engines were listed before, even in a wiring schematic. Now we have the series 2 AFC and all of a sudden it lists 99 and up FS series engines.

 

[perfworks]

allright guys listen,
the apex and a slew of other piggys will NOT work on the MAF that is on the stock mazda's
Any time you try to wire in the product the MAF output will be much higher than the stock ECU wants. There are many ways to get around this but it gets very technical and requires alot of different resistors. After your all said and done the wiring looks a little like a christmas tree.
your best bet is to do what every other high performance shop does that builds streetable cars. get an aftermarket MAF that is larger and tunable to YOUR specs. The company i worked with before Modern Performance has all of them. We designed the perfect meter for the car . Instead of guessing what will work call them and they can tell you. As you all have probably found out i had to go back to helping out the family buisness so i am no longer involved in that project but i will still stay around to help answer questions
good luck , i hope that info helps.

 

[flat_black]

Looks like I'd have to go with a new MAF for this setup... Which the stock ECU wouldn't be able to read from, and I couldn't cheat and make the S-AFC II talk to the ECU at the right range, either.

Here are two options that look to be costing about the same as doing an entire new setup using the S-AFC, which looks to be in the 1k range. Here are the other ECU related options:

1) Perfwork's ECU (Quoted at 675 for the ECU), plus the 80mm MAF (325), plus the price to make an 80mm ID CAI extension, which would kill the air velocity, since I'm going N/A, and not FI.

2) HiBoost's ECU, tuned for N/A. Quoted at 1060$ for the Haltech E6k with wiring and signal harness, plus $50 for a MAP sensor, eliminating the need for a MAF at all, and allowing me to keep intake velocity.

My brain is killing me, trying to think out all my options. x.x

 

[xelderx]

tell 2g dsm guys that it doesn't work on obdII. the issue isn't whether it works on obdII or not, it's whether it works on our ecu's. the obdII has nothing to do with it.

I could care less what the DSM guys have. OUR OBDII will not allow the S-AFC to work properly. I didn't feel like I had to clarify what car's ECU I was referring to since this is a Mazda forum. The OBDI out of the J-spec Mazdas works fine. Don't tell me its got nothing to do with OBDI or OBDII. Maybe over in Eclipse world it doesn't matter, but as far as everyone reading this is concerned...Our OBDII ECU will not allow the Apexi to do its job. End of story.

 

[Captain KRM P5]

this has likely been said already but i'll repeat it anyways - it doesn't matter that "all OBDII ecus run closed and open loops". It does matter that on our particular ECU, the Mazda Protege ECU, the one that says FORD all over the housing when you pull it out ECU - that its been programmed to reject any other inputs being fed to it from any source other than its own presets during wide open throttle.

i vote for no, it won't work.

 

[perfworks]

Looks like I'd have to go with a new MAF for this setup... Which the stock ECU wouldn't be able to read from, and I couldn't cheat and make the S-AFC II talk to the ECU at the right range, either.

Here are two options that look to be costing about the same as doing an entire new setup using the S-AFC, which looks to be in the 1k range. Here are the other ECU related options:

1) Perfwork's ECU (Quoted at 675 for the ECU), plus the 80mm MAF (325), plus the price to make an 80mm ID CAI extension, which would kill the air velocity, since I'm going N/A, and not FI.

2) HiBoost's ECU, tuned for N/A. Quoted at 1060$ for the Haltech E6k with wiring and signal harness, plus $50 for a MAP sensor, eliminating the need for a MAF at all, and allowing me to keep intake velocity.

My brain is killing me, trying to think out all my options. x.x

i would stay with MAF if i were you. It is much better tuning knowing the amount of air gouing into the system for N/A application rather that a guestimate on load and manifold vaccum. i know some may argue this point. but i would like to see if someone would like to argue it on a public forum

one more thing. the air velocity will not be "killed". your throttle body is still 2.5 inches in diameter. im sure nick from Modern performance has a setup for you. we were working on one while i was there. the pipe will continue to progress in diameter to meet the 3.5 inch maf. velocity is actually increased!
you also keep your stock ECU in the loop and pass all emission tests.

 

[jred321]

I could care less what the DSM guys have. OUR OBDII will not allow the S-AFC to work properly. I didn't feel like I had to clarify what car's ECU I was referring to since this is a Mazda forum. The OBDI out of the J-spec Mazdas works fine. Don't tell me its got nothing to do with OBDI or OBDII. Maybe over in Eclipse world it doesn't matter, but as far as everyone reading this is concerned...Our OBDII ECU will not allow the Apexi to do its job. End of story.

since when does an on board diagnostics = an entire ecu? it has nothing to do with the fact that our ecu is obdII, it's just our ecu. and obdII in a dsm=obdII in our car. the ecu's themselves are different. all ecu's are obdII compliant, not controlled by obdII.
http://www.dakota-truck.net/OBD2/obd2_low.html