New MSP Short-Ram Intake

[EVILSRT]

Hey......why didnt you ever PM me back about the HIDs....Ive pmed you twice now.:wtf: I did all that work tracking down kits for you and I get the big stiff, thanks. Its people like you who I hate to deal with.:mad:

 

[InsidiousMSP]

The location of the injen CAI's filter on our cars doesn't make up for it's 90 degree bend. On cars such as Supras and DSMs where you would take out the headlight in front of the intake, the filter gets nailed by wind, forced into the intake without silly bends, actually making a difference. Putting the filter next to the fender (short-ram) or underneath the bay (CAI) is all the same when the air leaves the intercooler. Only on the CAI, you have a compromised path to suck "fresh" air from.

 

[InsidiousMSP]

Hey......why didnt you ever PM me back about the HIDs....Ive pmed you twicce now. I did all that word tracking down kits for you and I get the big stiff thanks.

I did reply, but got an error after I thought it had sent. Guess it never went through. I said it took too long for you to reply to my original inquiry (I was even posting asking for you on the forum), I have since found other HIDs. I never got any prices from you. Thanks for your time though.

 

[GI-]

I just am not sure that this is the way to go on the MSP. It obviously is the way to go with many other factory turbo'd cars, but has anyone ever measured the temps under our car's hood? I would be willing to bet it is hotter than any other factory turbo'd car ever! The heat under my hood is frickin ridiculous after a spirited drive.

So you may have the shortest and least restrictive airflow to the turbo with this set-up, but the ambient underhood heat where that filter is located compared to a CAI might just negate the difference.

 

[GI-]

One more thing to mention...


...that bend you got going to your recirculating valve can't be good long term. Eventually that tube is gonna kink on one side or both (especially when it gets really hot under there, then you will have some serious issues.

 

[InsidiousMSP]

One more thing to mention...


...that bend you got going to your recirculating valve can't be good long term. Eventually that tube is gonna kink on one side or both (especially when it gets really hot under there, then you will have some serious issues.

They are radiator hose bends that come formed in that shape. Not hose that is being bent by it's position. Those hoses are ment for heat much worse than what that location feels.

As for your other opinion, please do what you feel is right for your car. I'm not going to try to persuade you or further explain the purpose of the intercooler or guess air temperature differences in different locations. It's all up to you what you think is best.

 

[GI-]

They are radiator hose bends that come formed in that shape. Not hose that is being bent by it's position. Those hoses are ment for heat much worse than what that location feels.

That's cool, from the picture it looks as if you took the stock hose and bent it around.

Originally posted by InsidiousMSP
As for your other opinion, please do what you feel is right for your car. I'm not going to try to persuade you or further explain the purpose of the intercooler or guess air temperature differences in different locations. It's all up to you what you think is best.

You are right, everyone should do what they feel is right for their own car. Opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one (and mine is just my opinion and nothing more). Also, I do know the purpose of the intercooler, however ambient temps in different locations under the hood are extremely important for obvious reasons.

 

[InsidiousMSP]

ambient temps in different locations under the hood are extremely important for obvious reasons.

Where the filter sits now is not that hot at all. I'm willing to bet the air leaving the intercooler is the same temperature with the short-ram as it is with the CAI.

 

[GI-]

You know what would work pretty sweet with this set-up is the DGM ram air hood. I believe the opening on their hood is right where you have your filter located. Now that would really make this a ram-air-short-ram set-up or somethng like that!

 

[InsidiousMSP]

You know what would work pretty sweet with this set-up is the DGM ram air hood. I believe the opening on their hood is right where you have your filter located.

That's exactly what i'm planning to get.

 

[goonsquad]

I have no experience tuning cars. All I can go by is my intuitive understanding of how air temperature affects it's density and the resulting advantages of having denser air. As mentioned above and countless times before, the temp under the hood of the MSP is ridiculously high. I would be willing to bet the temp just behind where the fog lights go (I don't know the name of that area) is much lower and hence would improve performance if the intake was located there.

This leads me to another question. All of the CAIs I've seen for the MSP so far go to this bay and have a cone filter that sucks air that happens to be flowing through. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this concept one step short of the "Ram-air" technique used by several cars (i've seen them on corvettes). These setups I've seen actually force air through a filter and then into the intake. It seems this method would be much more efficient at forcing cold air into the engine. Does this make any sense? If so, why aren't vendors making true ram-air intakes that utilize that space? Thanks for bearing with my lack of knowledge.

 

[GI-]

That's exactly what i'm planning to get.

Did you see the price on that b**** right now? It has been on sale for like two weeks now. I am waiting on a few questions to be answered by them and than I plan on getting one.

 

[Kenetix]

Yup, I've been planning on getting it for months now but havent wanted to spend the cash. A short ram with the DGM hood would work perfectly.

 

[GI-]

Yeah it would. This would make an awesome set-up.

 

[InsidiousMSP]

I have no experience tuning cars. All I can go by is my intuitive understanding of how air temperature affects it's density and the resulting advantages of having denser air. As mentioned above and countless times before, the temp under the hood of the MSP is ridiculously high. I would be willing to bet the temp just behind where the fog lights go (I don't know the name of that area) is much lower and hence would improve performance if the intake was located there.

This leads me to another question. All of the CAIs I've seen for the MSP so far go to this bay and have a cone filter that sucks air that happens to be flowing through. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this concept one step short of the "Ram-air" technique used by several cars (i've seen them on corvettes). These setups I've seen actually force air through a filter and then into the intake. It seems this method would be much more efficient at forcing cold air into the engine. Does this make any sense? If so, why aren't vendors making true ram-air intakes that utilize that space? Thanks for bearing with my lack of knowledge.

I can't imagine any ram-air effect happening where the filter sits on the CAI. For one, the filter is blocked by the fog light and bumper. And any air that is sucked into the CAI filter needs to travel upwards and take a 90 degree turn before it starts it's path towards the turbo. You can see this in my scientifically drawn diagram attached.

 

[servoeyes]

I would like to refer you all to this thread where on pages 2-3, one the dudes from ION and myself go back and forth as to which is better. Now...In the end I still prefer the INJEN, however, I do understand it's downfalls (which I will fix...)

 

[GI-]

Which downfalls are you referring to?

 

[jred321]

really, the only way to convince people is to dyno one setup, take it off, and dyno the other setup. it's 90* turn vs. warmer air, which one is worse can only be proven by the dyno. now a heat shield around the "short ram" filter, and some tubing going to the front of the car to suck colder air into the boxed area would probably be the best setup.

 

[YellowSpeed17]

I think InsidiousMSP's intake would be ideal for the track. All you would have to do is remove the headlight and it would get some nice fresh air that would be rammed into the intake. For the street, I think a CAI would be best but I'm hesitant to getting one because of the risk of watter getting in the filter. Just my opinion.

 

[OrangeAppeal]

really, the only way to convince people is to dyno one setup, take it off, and dyno the other setup. it's 90* turn vs. warmer air, which one is worse can only be proven by the dyno. now a heat shield around the "short ram" filter, and some tubing going to the front of the car to suck colder air into the boxed area would probably be the best setup.

The best answer I think would lie in the intake temperature. Get a set-up to measure the air temp right before entering the intake manifold and try out different intake set-ups. If the temps are the same entering the intake manifold, than there would be no benefit to a CAI over a short ram intake. Without dyno proof (much more expensive than setting up a temp sensor) this is the best way to approach this.

At this point (if intake temps are equal), theoretically a CAI would hurt performance, due to it being less restrictive. But now you would have to keep in mind what the ambient temp of the engine bay in this location that the short ram sits in. If you increase the power of the engine, you will create more heat in the engine bay and this in turn might affect the intake air temperature.

Now, the CAI might be beneficial.

If you put in a heat shield (or bottomless box) around the filter on the short ram intake, it would suck cooler air from the hole directly below it and block out the ambient engine bay temps and bring the short ram back on par with the CAI.

Soo, there are advantages and disadvantages with both, but I think a simple air temp gauge would help determine which would be better. Anyone care to step in here?