New MSP/P5/MP3/Sedan Radiator!!!

[TheMAN]

you took the words out of my mouth... what else can I say.... marketing "experts" failed again... they don't know the protege culture or market, enough said

I think people are also missing the fact that the non-MSP fans are garbage... they have way lower cfms and rpms (which I said long ago)... mazda parts binned the fans specifically for the MSP, they use a high rpm motor, high cfm blades... this is something not found on any other mazda even if the individual parts came from other mazdas... this is the truth and I know this first hand because I went from non-turbo to turbo... my stock fans flowed just "normal", while the stock MSP fans dims the lights and blows like a tornado! the bottom line is, spending money is spending money... you already paid 350+ on a radiator, broke and still have to buy fans... so to be cheap, you end up with bad OEM fans that are worse than the MSP ones, or you buy some flexalite bulls*** that rips up the fins, have a loud bad motor, and just don't flow much better than the stock MSP fans... either way, its the epitome of counter productiveness towards an upgrade..... you upgrade the radiator, but downgrade air flow

also, it's great that mishimoto includes a radiator cap, but I don't think people really care whether it comes with it or not.... afterall, their major competitor, koyo doesn't at all but they specifically make it a point that you can fit your stock cap (and fans or shroud) on.... so far, none of the available protege radiators can even allow you to use the stock cap unless you have an automatic (and how many who have an automatic upgraded their radiators? less than 5 I'm sure!) because the neck is completely different... and we all know already that all of what's available right now forces an MSP owner to buy a cap, P5 fans, and P5 brackets.... in otherwords, a fancy looking radiator cap isn't the deal breaker here

 

[MP3racer]

mishimoto needs to get a better grip on the big picture here. theyre targeting a market who isnt actively pursuing aftermarket radiators since their cooling capacity is already adequate, and theyre pursuing a market which is saturated with competition. lets look at some general facts about their decision, which i think most people would agree with.
- their radiator is not the lowest price to market, and its yet to be seen whether it will be the "best". their positioning among p5 radiators in general is somewhat ambivilant - people on a budget will get CS, and im sure a lot of performance minded people will still go with the AWR/Ron Davis. at this point, theyre not fully differentiated in any sense of the word.
- while the general market for p5 is larger, their target demographic of "people with p5's looking to replace their radiator" is probably about the same size to the same being said of the MSP market. maybe smaller - count the number of MSP owners on the list. theres more people able to buy the rads in the p5 market but how many are buying?
- "the fans are inexpensive enough". im starting to agree with edwin here, thats a pretty poor excuse. if i had the money, MSP bolt on compatibility would be make-or-break. if im buying a 400 dollar radiator the last thing i want to do is shell out the money for fans and brackets. i appreciate the efforts to date to make the fans compatible, but i dont think mishimoto grasps the number of people where this is vital in the radiator purchasing decisionversus doing say cap and thermostat upgrades.


so how does mishimoto ignore this. they would BE the market for a bolt on MSP rad. this alone is going to pull them more customers than being another face in the crowd in a market that really doesnt need them. i dont know mishimotos distribution model, but maybe they should get in touch with a distributor... we have plenty of AV's on here who id imagine would love to stock it and could tell you some sales numbers on p5 radiators. ask them how many more theyd sell if there was a direct bolt on for the MSP, then forward mishimoto the information.

OK, please show me what radiator WITH MOUNTING TABS FOR OE FANS is cheaper than the offer here???

Finally, I am really tired of all the thread jumpers here who have not even signed up on the list to say they are interested, let alone place a deposit and can get on their soap box and make some wild accusations and marketing strategies for a company that has been in business for several years and for a racing team who has worked with several large manufacturers!!!

Sorry but I am about to just refund everyones money and let THE MAN and the rest of you figure out what radiator is best for you to waste $500 on!!!!:'''''(

 

[Focus]

OK, please show me what radiator WITH MOUNTING TABS FOR OE FANS is cheaper than the offer here???

Finally, I am really tired of all the thread jumpers here who have not even signed up on the list to say they are interested, let alone place a deposit and can get on their soap box and make some wild accusations and marketing strategies for a company that has been in business for several years and for a racing team who has worked with several large manufacturers!!!

Sorry but I am about to just refund everyones money and let THE MAN and the rest of you figure out what radiator is best for you to waste $500 on!!!!:'''''(

I don't think you understand.

I myself and I'm sure others would want to buy a rad if it was a replacement for the MSP rad. This is proven just from the list of potential buyers you have.

You say where is a rad that is cheaper, well the corksport is at $299 full price vs. yours at $389 I believe.

You start a group buy with corksport, and I'm sure they will drop the price another 10%

You say the market for MSP is small at 4000 vehicles, but you're not thinking of this globally, rather, you think of it locally and how to help North American people.

Mishimoto would look at it globally and figure out that there are a shitload of cars in Europe that use this rad and a lot of them can benefit from the extra cooling.

What is needed is a performance rad for the MSP / Turbo Diesel crowd and not Another regular Protege Rad, there are already 3.

Please don't take this as an insult, it is not meant to be.

 

[MP3racer]

I don't think you understand.

I myself and I'm sure others would want to buy a rad if it was a replacement for the MSP rad. This is proven just from the list of potential buyers you have.

You say where is a rad that is cheaper, well the corksport is at $299 full price vs. yours at $389 I believe.

You start a group buy with corksport, and I'm sure they will drop the price another 10%

You say the market for MSP is small at 4000 vehicles, but you're not thinking of this globally, rather, you think of it locally and how to help North American people.

Mishimoto would look at it globally and figure out that there are a shitload of cars in Europe that use this rad and a lot of them can benefit from the extra cooling.

What is needed is a performance rad for the MSP / Turbo Diesel crowd and not Another regular Protege Rad, there are already 3.

Please don't take this as an insult, it is not meant to be.

OK, the price is $289 comapred to CS which sells theirs for $299 WITHOUT any tabs for fans or $319 WITH radaiator tabs. That is a full $40 more.
Even if they were to give the 10% it is still more.....

Also, when I was looking into this I asked them if their radaitor would work for a race car application. They were reluctant to give me a yes or no, finally stating...not sure....that is all I will say about the cooling capacity of the radiator they sell.

If you want a radiator that is for the MSP size, one can be custom made in a small quantity. But the price will be $400 or more. No one in the intial interest thread said that they would buy a radiator for $400. Everyone wants a quality radiator at a "cheap" price.

To get the priceline we have concessions need to be made. The main concession is that Mishimito has the final say on the size of the radiator.

To say that the OE sadan/P5 fans don't work is bunk. We have used just a SINGLE sedan fan on our race radiator in the race car for four years. Even on the grid, we don't have overheating problems.

 

[Focus]

OK, the price is $289 comapred to CS which sells theirs for $299 WITHOUT any tabs for fans or $319 WITH radaiator tabs. That is a full $40 more.
Even if they were to give the 10% it is still more.....

Also, when I was looking into this I asked them if their radaitor would work for a race car application. They were reluctant to give me a yes or no, finally stating...not sure....that is all I will say about the cooling capacity of the radiator they sell.

If you want a radiator that is for the MSP size, one can be custom made in a small quantity. But the price will be $400 or more. No one in the intial interest thread said that they would buy a radiator for $400. Everyone wants a quality radiator at a "cheap" price.

To get the priceline we have concessions need to be made. The main concession is that Mishimito has the final say on the size of the radiator.

To say that the OE sadan/P5 fans don't work is bunk. We have used just a SINGLE sedan fan on our race radiator in the race car for four years. Even on the grid, we don't have overheating problems.

Hmm, the math is a little off there, but here it is: the $20 is for sedan brackets to put the rad in an MSP. Corksport complete rad is $299

Anyway, that is neither here nor there. If you do decide to make a rad MSP sized, please let me know...

 

[MP3racer]

Hmm, the math is a little off there, but here it is: the $20 is for sedan brackets to put the rad in an MSP. Corksport complete rad is $299

Anyway, that is neither here nor there. If you do decide to make a rad MSP sized, please let me know...

Again, the CS rad comes WITHOUT any tabs or brackets for fans. If you want them it is another $20 and they are for the SEDAN fans not the MSP!!! So the price would be $319 and if you owned an MSP you would need to buy the sedan fans. NO CHANCE for even the passenger side MSP fan to work. AS you refer...CS complete rad $299...That is WITHOUT any tabs/rad cap/or WARRANTY!!!

 

[SleepyMSP]

Why does everyone want an MSP sized rad, max efficiency will be found from a full sized rad.

In the case of the OE rads yes the MSP is better only due to core width which this will out perform.

personally I want a full sized rad

how many people on the list WHO HAVE PAYED have an fmic or plan on getting one?

 

[TheMAN]

why? the same people who had theirs break and DON'T want to go FMIC... or ones who just simply want to upgrade and DON'T want to go FMIC

it's that simple

 

[yudkib]

OK, the price is $289 comapred to CS which sells theirs for $299 WITHOUT any tabs for fans or $319 WITH radaiator tabs. That is a full $40 more.
Even if they were to give the 10% it is still more.....

Also, when I was looking into this I asked them if their radaitor would work for a race car application. They were reluctant to give me a yes or no, finally stating...not sure....that is all I will say about the cooling capacity of the radiator they sell.

If you want a radiator that is for the MSP size, one can be custom made in a small quantity. But the price will be $400 or more. No one in the intial interest thread said that they would buy a radiator for $400. Everyone wants a quality radiator at a "cheap" price...

first of all, i (and im sure others) really appreciate all the effort youre going through to take community input on this, and it must be a lot of work to deal with mishimoto personally to try to and get the community a product they can be happy with. so let me make some of my final points on this...
i straight up dont have the money for this rad right now. if i did, i would probably be on the list, and just accept the p5 fan thing as an annoyance just to get the price break. however, its not happening. when i will have the money, the CS will be cheaper. theres no way around that. if the mishimoto is the absolute best for this car, i would consider it, but honestly two slim fans plus the radiator might put it out of reach for me financially compared to the benefit i'd get. as for comments on the CS rad...
ive always heard there are exactly three words that are important when it comes to marketing. first, best, and cheapest. mishimoto is not the first to make the p5 width, they are not going to be the cheapest, and at this point the ron davis is best. if they switched to making it MSP compatible, they would be all three.

Why does everyone want an MSP sized rad, max efficiency will be found from a full sized rad.
In the case of the OE rads yes the MSP is better only due to core width which this will out perform.
how many people on the list WHO HAVE PAYED have an fmic or plan on getting one?

how about a better metric? how many people would join the list if it was bolt-on for MSP (i can think of at least 3)? how many on the list would leave? that should be something to tell mishimoto.

again, thanks for putting in all the time to help the community. i dont want to tell you or mishimoto how to do this whole thing, its just input into the process. i for one would be extremely interested in bolt-on in the future

 

[yudkib]

why? the same people who had theirs break and DON'T want to go FMIC... or ones who just simply want to upgrade and DON'T want to go FMIC

it's that simple

exactly - theres been a slew of people looking for OEM rads lately, im sure 90% of them would switch if it were bolt on.

 

[TheMAN]

asking even that question shows how much arrogance and out of touch people are... not everyone is into big turbos, 20+psi, huge intercoolers the size of a radiator, standalone management, etc

they just want to have fun with their cars, and have it reliable to go to work... not have a plastic POS radiator that blows up

saying "oh, but they can just buy fans and brackets" is just another way of saying they should be like the few who have built motors and big turbos

 

[MP3racer]

asking even that question shows how much arrogance and out of touch people are... not everyone is into big turbos, 20+psi, huge intercoolers the size of a radiator, standalone management, etc

they just want to have fun with their cars, and have it reliable to go to work... not have a plastic POS radiator that blows up

saying "oh, but they can just buy fans and brackets" is just another way of saying they should be like the few who have built motors and big turbos

Well....Since you are "THE MAN" go ahead and see if you can get a manufacturer interested in making the MSP sized radiator.

I spoke with several manufacturers to see if any would even look at making the MSP radiator. None were interested. Believe me I tried.

A few custom houses would do it with a minimum order above the 25 mark but you are also looking at a price near the Ron Davis mark of $400-$500

 

[MP3racer]

I just realized that all the fuss and BS is from a few people who are not even on the list to purchase let alone have placed a deposit!!!

WTH

Can we get back on track here??

I would like to see that this happens.

Everyone else on the list and deposit makers, PM me if you are OK with the current design. If not, I will refund your deposit.

We will go on from there without all the Fuss....

 

[littlemimus]

how many deposits do we have?

 

[MP3racer]

how many deposits do we have?

Not 100% sure...just waiting for all the PM's

 

[MSP Kirk]

Pm'd

 

[o0n8]

pm'd

 

[AusOrion]

PM'ed

 

[Dpwhitehead1]

tom, i pmed you the other day. when you get a shot, hit me back!

 

[littlemimus]

are we supossed to pm him?