Oh, and yes there are.
New Handgun
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Oh, and yes there are.
Not really safe either lol. See also Plaxico Burress
They're one of those love it or hate it guns. By all means, I don't think anyone will disagree that they're fantastic guns, they just don't have the extra 'it' if you ask me. Sort of like an accord or a camry: very good, very reliable transportation that will get you where you're going just as fast as any other car, but a little soul-less. They don't fit my hand well, and I don't really like how they looks or feel.
You have to remember, there's 2 kinds of 'cool':
1: Function. Things that are cool because they do what they are intended to do very well.
2: Does it 'turn you on'.
As far as the 1st type, a glock 19 / beretta 92 / sig226 / CZ 75 / FNP9 are all very nearly on par. Sure if you want to pick nits, they all have their little pros and cons, but as an "appliance" they all work great.
As for the 2nd kind? Beretta: Featured in TONS of movies. It's a HOT looking gun (an italian work of art). Adopted by militaries the world over. Sig: Adopted by the Navy SEALS (how cool is that!?). FNP: Pretty much a sig clone... very similar in quality and look, but a good lot cheaper. CZ: Pretty much THE ISPC gun. Passed NATO Certification. Glock? Eh... great at what they do, but just sorta 'meh' in my opinion.
And that's my glock schpeal LOL
You have to remember, there's 2 kinds of 'cool':
1: Function. Things that are cool because they do what they are intended to do very well.
2: Does it 'turn you on'.
As far as the 1st type, a glock 19 / beretta 92 / sig226 / CZ 75 / FNP9 are all very nearly on par. Sure if you want to pick nits, they all have their little pros and cons, but as an "appliance" they all work great.
As for the 2nd kind? Beretta: Featured in TONS of movies. It's a HOT looking gun (an italian work of art). Adopted by militaries the world over. Sig: Adopted by the Navy SEALS (how cool is that!?). FNP: Pretty much a sig clone... very similar in quality and look, but a good lot cheaper. CZ: Pretty much THE ISPC gun. Passed NATO Certification. Glock? Eh... great at what they do, but just sorta 'meh' in my opinion.
And that's my glock schpeal LOL
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That's what I seemed to be finding.
The glock seems to the old reliable appliance to most folks no on loves them.
Although i noticed a great many people that were recommending against the glocks (on other forums) had two or three themselves. so they seem to be a reference of sorts.
But as they seem to be in a price vs performance category all their own they are tough to pass up. Especailly when everything else that is several hundred more really only adds that "turn me n factor". $250 in my pocket turns me on plenty
The glock seems to the old reliable appliance to most folks no on loves them.
Although i noticed a great many people that were recommending against the glocks (on other forums) had two or three themselves. so they seem to be a reference of sorts.
But as they seem to be in a price vs performance category all their own they are tough to pass up. Especailly when everything else that is several hundred more really only adds that "turn me n factor". $250 in my pocket turns me on plenty
But as they seem to be in a price vs performance category all their own they are tough to pass up. Especailly when everything else that is several hundred more really only adds that "turn me n factor". $250 in my pocket turns me on plenty
And there is something pretty substantial to say about that. FWIW my first gun was / is very much an "appliance". But it's damn good at what it does - and that is be on me anywhere I'm legally allowed to carry, and be dead reliable.
Kel Tec PF-9. 12 oz empty. The thinnest, lightest 9mm sub-compact you can find, and about $300 cheaper than any of it's competition.
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- 2000 Protege ES
I'm a staunch believer of shot placement over firepower, hence my preference for good ol' 1911s. However, if having your wife handle the gun is a concern for you, a Browning Hi Power would probably be a perfect choice. Single action trigger, high capacity, tons of available parts for customizing, great resale value, and more importantly, a grip design that has always felt the most comfortable for people with smallish hands (despite the double-stack magazine) - not as thick to grip as say, a Beretta 92. Only drawback that I can see is that they regularly sell in the $600 range and up in my neck of the woods.
Another excellent recommendation mentioned above is the CZ75, which shares a lot of the Hi Power's wonderful features, is solidly built for abuse, and usually sells in the $400-500 price range.
For the best combination of sheer stopping power and portability, however, I'd recommend you also check out a CZ52. The wife, however, might not like the harsh recoil and you may not be too happy with the price of the 7.62x25 Tokarev ammo...(lol2)
mazdaspeedster3
Member
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- Mazdaspeed3. 2008
A lot of input... Your best bet is to pick 4 or 5 of them and find a range that you can rent each one and find the best for both of you. More than likely any gun you like is not going to be a gun that your wife likes. My wife and shoot IDPA and her choice is a wheel gun, I of course shoot a semi auto XD 9 Subcompact. The barrel weight and smoothness of the wheel gun keeps her accurate and smooth. She says the semi autos make her feel rushed and are harsh... Most places will give you some kind of rental credit towards the purchase of your gun or accesories so it can be worth renting.
Glocks are straight up reliable, period... Not have a safety is something each individual has to come to grips with and be satisfied about. A proper holster and training/practice will keep you from shooting your foot or leg.
Glocks are straight up reliable, period... Not have a safety is something each individual has to come to grips with and be satisfied about. A proper holster and training/practice will keep you from shooting your foot or leg.
jersey_emt
Member
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- 04 MSM #1089
+1
Definitely go to a range that has a wide variety of rental handguns available. Just like anything else, you'll find some that fit you well, point naturally, etc., and others that just don't feel 'right' in your hands.
Size may not matter because you plan on open carry, but weight definitely does. If you get something very heavy, like a full-size steel 1911, you may get tired of carrying all that weight around, and end up not taking the gun when you might need it. So I would mostly look at polymer-framed handguns like a Glock or Springfield XD.
Ambidextrous handguns -- yes, they exist, a lot already do have ambidextrous controls. But it's really not a huge deal. My Sig has the slide catch, magazine release, and decocker on the left side of the gun. But I have no problem operating them with my left hand. Usually, a right-handed person will operate the controls with their right thumb, but I just do everything with my trigger (left index) finger. I don't have to change my grip. The only one that's a bit tough to reach is the slide catch. On a Sig, the position of the slide catch and the decocker are reversed compared to most other guns -- the slide catch is at the rear with the decocker in front. So it's hard to stretch my index finger all the way back there. So I have to either use my left thumb (and change my grip) or just pull the slide back that last 1/4" or so and release.
Thanks a ton for the help guys
I ended up with a Glock G22 for $530 with 2 5 round clips, a lock, and some random cleaning parts. The sigs were over $850, and th eonly thing in the range of the glock was a ruger that just didnt look well built.
In the end I like the idea of a never fail appliance for this gun as I am using it to get a reference to compare against anything i get/shoot in the future while having a gun that can get the job done if it is unfortunitly is ever needed.
Even after 150 rounds through it I still feel like I could not really compare it to anything else as I need to really get to know it to have a base line.
My wife was able to shoot it and did great with it. Unfortunitly most of the ranges near me either don't rent or what they rent is just a few models of house guns. The wife rented a .22 and a 9mm just to see the difference. Neither of us could really feel a difference between the 9mm and .40. The .22 was just...a bit boring after firing the .40. SO she is thinking about trying to rent a few others next time.
The range I went to today does sell guns though and I really liked the look and feel of a little walther .380 ACP. looked like a perfect carrying gun.
I ended up with a Glock G22 for $530 with 2 5 round clips, a lock, and some random cleaning parts. The sigs were over $850, and th eonly thing in the range of the glock was a ruger that just didnt look well built.
In the end I like the idea of a never fail appliance for this gun as I am using it to get a reference to compare against anything i get/shoot in the future while having a gun that can get the job done if it is unfortunitly is ever needed.
Even after 150 rounds through it I still feel like I could not really compare it to anything else as I need to really get to know it to have a base line.
My wife was able to shoot it and did great with it. Unfortunitly most of the ranges near me either don't rent or what they rent is just a few models of house guns. The wife rented a .22 and a 9mm just to see the difference. Neither of us could really feel a difference between the 9mm and .40. The .22 was just...a bit boring after firing the .40. SO she is thinking about trying to rent a few others next time.
The range I went to today does sell guns though and I really liked the look and feel of a little walther .380 ACP. looked like a perfect carrying gun.
mazdaspeedster3
Member
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- Mazdaspeed3. 2008
You will like that .40. I shoot a g23 all the time and had a M&P .40 that I loved! I sold it regretfully but would easily pick another one up.
As far as composit guns breaking I have over 5k rounds through my XD and had twice that through my G26 and MP.40 with zero issues. All 3 guns look like they just came out of the case. I shoot with guys who have a lot of work done to their glocks and have 1,000's and 1,000's of rounds through them with no issues.
As far as composit guns breaking I have over 5k rounds through my XD and had twice that through my G26 and MP.40 with zero issues. All 3 guns look like they just came out of the case. I shoot with guys who have a lot of work done to their glocks and have 1,000's and 1,000's of rounds through them with no issues.
I read in a few places that the Glocks have a simple part that is in need of replacement around 3-4K rounds. Other then that I have to suspect that the reason there are so many perceived failures is simply because there are more of them out there then just about anything else?
I know I see this in electronics all the time. For example:
Alpine is a great brand and was easily our best seller at tweeter. Sold 5 to one over most anything else. So when you looked at the number of units out for repair alpine always had WAY more units being repaired then did any other brand. So if you looked at just the number at the factory for repair you would think alpine sucked. However when you compared that number to the metric s*** ton we sold...it was actually a very reliable brand.
That said, after hitting the range with the wife, I think she needs something a bit smaller and more manageable for her which means ambidextrous. I came across the Walther PK380 in my saerching.
Looks like a nice peice for a person with smaller hands looking for an OK round with out a large amount of recoil like a 9mm or .40. I know for alot of people the 9mm doesnt seem like alot but its simply too much for some, especially when the grip is just to long/wide for a small hand.
Also I was looking at PPks and the sig counter parts but thesy seem to have just as much kick as the 9mm.
Thoughts?
I know I see this in electronics all the time. For example:
Alpine is a great brand and was easily our best seller at tweeter. Sold 5 to one over most anything else. So when you looked at the number of units out for repair alpine always had WAY more units being repaired then did any other brand. So if you looked at just the number at the factory for repair you would think alpine sucked. However when you compared that number to the metric s*** ton we sold...it was actually a very reliable brand.
That said, after hitting the range with the wife, I think she needs something a bit smaller and more manageable for her which means ambidextrous. I came across the Walther PK380 in my saerching.
Looks like a nice peice for a person with smaller hands looking for an OK round with out a large amount of recoil like a 9mm or .40. I know for alot of people the 9mm doesnt seem like alot but its simply too much for some, especially when the grip is just to long/wide for a small hand.
Also I was looking at PPks and the sig counter parts but thesy seem to have just as much kick as the 9mm.
Thoughts?
Exactly correct. Every brand is going to have bad apples, and problems that no engineer could predict. The good brands are the ones that fix them without question (Kel Tec is an excellent example. The PF9 had some teething problems when it first came out but they've pretty much fixed everything. And If you have any issue with one of their guns they'll just have you send it in to have one of their smiths fix them. Their customer service is incredible)
jersey_emt
Member
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- 04 MSM #1089
The Walther PK380 is a brand new gun. I haven't had a chance to shoot one, just held one in a store. It's pretty cool, very similar in size to the Walther P22 (which fires the .22 LR round which is not recommended for self defense).
There are much smaller .380 ACP pistols like the Walther PPK and Sig you mentioned (the Sig was probably the P238?). Others include the Ruger LCP, Kel-Tec P-3AT, Micro Desert Eagle, and Kahr P380 -- all similar in size and weight. But the tiny size and weight of these guns definitely affect felt recoil. With all other things equal, a smaller gun (with a shorter barrel) will have more felt recoil than a larger gun (with a longer barrel), and a lighter gun will have more felt recoil than a heavier gun. It's not the actual amount of recoil that is more, it is the felt (or perceived) recoil that is more. A longer barrel and a heavier gun will absorb more recoil forces. So yes, an ultracompact .380 ACP 'pocket pistol' can have more perceived recoil than a larger 9mm pistol.
And the .380 ACP round isn't as 'anemic' as it used to be. Modern hollowpoint bullet designs have decreased the gap between .380 ACP and 9mm. 9mm is still of course more powerful with more stopping power, but the difference isn't as much as it was in the past. Ultracompact .380 ACP's are a hot commodity right now, which should tell you that .380 ACP is an acceptable self-defense caliber nowadays. I wouldn't go any smaller than that though, unless there are other factors at play that prevent your wife from going with .380 ACP or larger (severe arthritis, carpal tunnel syndrome, etc. that makes recoil unbearable).
.380 ACP is actually a 9mm caliber. It's the same diameter as a 9mm Parabellum (the standard 9mm round), just shorter. This means less room for gunpowder, so a smaller explosion with less force.
9mm Parabellum is 9mm wide and 19mm long.
.380 ACP is 9mm wide and 17mm long.
jersey_emt
Member
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- 04 MSM #1089
Another .380 ACP pistol that you might want to take a look at is the Bersa Thunder 380.
http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/detail_bersa380.php
It's not a well-known brand, but they have a sort of 'cult' following. They seem to be very reliable guns at a very low price point.
Here's a review of the Bersa: http://www.gunblast.com/Bersa_Thunder380.htm
And a Bersa forum: http://www.bersatalk.com
http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/detail_bersa380.php
It's not a well-known brand, but they have a sort of 'cult' following. They seem to be very reliable guns at a very low price point.
Here's a review of the Bersa: http://www.gunblast.com/Bersa_Thunder380.htm
And a Bersa forum: http://www.bersatalk.com
here is why the PK380was on my list:
"First of all, it is big compared to other .380s, but it is light. Compared to Bond's PPK, which weighs 23 ounces, the PK380 is only 19 ounces. It is also, unlike a host of other .380s, a locked-breech design.
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So we have a lightweight, medium-size pistol that has a soft-feeling recoil spring, one that is easy to rack. And that's no small issue. My wife, for example, doesn't have a lot of hand strength, and she simply cannot work the slide on a compact blowback .380. The PK380, however, is easy for her to manipulate, and for her--and many other shooters looking for a defensive handgun--that's a big plus.
"On the first shot with the PK380, I stopped, removed the magazine and checked the chamber. Then I checked the bore. The recoil was so soft I wasn't sure the pistol had actually cycled. Perhaps the bullet was stuck. Nope, there was clearly daylight down the bore. So I loaded up again and watched the backstop. Sure enough, at the sound of the shot, a puff of dust appeared where I was aiming.
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Soft recoil does not begin to describe the PK380. With regular .380 ammo and even the current premium loads, it shoots so softly you might just think you're firing a .22 Long Rifle. A 90-grain bullet at a little faster than 900 fps is no big deal."
So from this and other reviews, not experience mind you. The typical .38 including the thunder are small but have a lot of recoil compared to this little guy.That plus being ambidextrous is a big sell for me for wifey. So the other .38's being small or lighter doesn't really make for a selling feature for her.
For myself, I am thinking of going up to a compact .45 for a carry weapon so the benefits of the pk380 are not a big things for me. Something like a taurus PT-145
"First of all, it is big compared to other .380s, but it is light. Compared to Bond's PPK, which weighs 23 ounces, the PK380 is only 19 ounces. It is also, unlike a host of other .380s, a locked-breech design.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->
So we have a lightweight, medium-size pistol that has a soft-feeling recoil spring, one that is easy to rack. And that's no small issue. My wife, for example, doesn't have a lot of hand strength, and she simply cannot work the slide on a compact blowback .380. The PK380, however, is easy for her to manipulate, and for her--and many other shooters looking for a defensive handgun--that's a big plus.
"On the first shot with the PK380, I stopped, removed the magazine and checked the chamber. Then I checked the bore. The recoil was so soft I wasn't sure the pistol had actually cycled. Perhaps the bullet was stuck. Nope, there was clearly daylight down the bore. So I loaded up again and watched the backstop. Sure enough, at the sound of the shot, a puff of dust appeared where I was aiming.
<!--end paragraph--> <!--begin paragraph-->
Soft recoil does not begin to describe the PK380. With regular .380 ammo and even the current premium loads, it shoots so softly you might just think you're firing a .22 Long Rifle. A 90-grain bullet at a little faster than 900 fps is no big deal."
So from this and other reviews, not experience mind you. The typical .38 including the thunder are small but have a lot of recoil compared to this little guy.That plus being ambidextrous is a big sell for me for wifey. So the other .38's being small or lighter doesn't really make for a selling feature for her.
For myself, I am thinking of going up to a compact .45 for a carry weapon so the benefits of the pk380 are not a big things for me. Something like a taurus PT-145
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Well I've missed a lot of this thread and didnt read through all the posts so forgive me if I say something thats already been said. Nice choice on the G22, I went with a G23 for my first defense/carry gun. Cant go wrong with the simplicity and ease of Glocks. I've since picked up a G27 for summer months then the 23 is a little large for a tshirt. If your trying to conceal anyway.
That is a fine choice for a home defense and range gun. You can get an advantage arms 22lr conversion for it, lone wolfe conversion barrels for 9mm or 357sig. The 357sig you can use the 40cal mags too, the 9mm you would need the G17 mags. I'm sure you will enjoy it. Now that you have one you can decide where you want to go from there. Same with cars you will find opinions love/hate about every brand. Best bet is to rent one at a range or local gun clubs and members that will let you try something out. My G23 was the only gun I bought new, if you look around you can usually find good deals on used guns that are hardly shot.
That is a fine choice for a home defense and range gun. You can get an advantage arms 22lr conversion for it, lone wolfe conversion barrels for 9mm or 357sig. The 357sig you can use the 40cal mags too, the 9mm you would need the G17 mags. I'm sure you will enjoy it. Now that you have one you can decide where you want to go from there. Same with cars you will find opinions love/hate about every brand. Best bet is to rent one at a range or local gun clubs and members that will let you try something out. My G23 was the only gun I bought new, if you look around you can usually find good deals on used guns that are hardly shot.
Well, I made my choice....and I dont really like either of them.
I got the G22 which is a solid gun and all but its not sparkling with me. Its just to long for me to conceal but it was a good gun to get to know.
After realizing that, I ended up picking up a keltec PF9. Which after all that I have read, it seems to have been better for me then most as I have already put over 1000 rounds through it with little issue.
However I cant stop hitting the damn mag release at least once per magazine. So I cant really trust it in an emergecy so that is getting sold off.
SO!
My new plan is a Walther PPS .40 caliber for EDC and a Sig P220 carry equinox for no other reason then I LOVE the look of that. Plus I am jealous as hell of my fathers P229.
I may just keep the Glock. I dont know yet.
I got the G22 which is a solid gun and all but its not sparkling with me. Its just to long for me to conceal but it was a good gun to get to know.
After realizing that, I ended up picking up a keltec PF9. Which after all that I have read, it seems to have been better for me then most as I have already put over 1000 rounds through it with little issue.
However I cant stop hitting the damn mag release at least once per magazine. So I cant really trust it in an emergecy so that is getting sold off.
SO!
My new plan is a Walther PPS .40 caliber for EDC and a Sig P220 carry equinox for no other reason then I LOVE the look of that. Plus I am jealous as hell of my fathers P229.
I may just keep the Glock. I dont know yet.
mazdaspeedster3
Member
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- Mazdaspeed3. 2008
I picked up a used Bersa Thunder .380 CC. What a great carry gun. 1911 style (safety wise) and very small and slim.
