Na?!?!

[DooMer_MP3]

NA?!?!

Ok, I'm going to revive this subject once again. First off, I have been pretty much swayed that the dark side (forced induction) is the way to go on the FS-DE, but a few things have changed since then. One advantage NA has is that you can mod as you get the money. Don't have to save a bunch up for one thing. Also, NA can definitely be more reliable. Haven't heard of many people here damaging their engines without turbos or nitrous. Yes, if you do a turbo right, it can be bulletproof. But doing it right means extra $$$.

So whats changed? Well, we have a few products (some new) that should help the NA side...

OLD:
Intake (duh)
Exhaust
Cams (mazdaspeed or custom)
Adjustable camgears
High Compression Pistons

NEW:
AWR Header (first true bolt-on)
Larger Throttle Body
Different intake manifold (coming soon via perfworks)

And now to put all of these worthless parts together perfworks slaps us all across the face with his piggyback which can control fuel and timing all for a very nice price. So the puzzle has been solved for NA freaks. The ability to tune it for a decent price.

We know the J-Spec engine puts out ~162hp (170ps or something). So can we further tune it to put out 180hp or more at the crank? Look, I want more power, but I don't really need gobs of it. 200whp might be nice, but I simply can't do that right now. If my car gets destroyed, I won't have the money to fix it.

So I leave this thread here to discuss various options. Mainly because of the piggyback which seems to be the missing piece of the puzzle. Discuss amongst yourselves!

Chris

 

[KYREDP5]

Perfworks also has a larger MAF now IIRC.

EDIT: Don't forget motor mounts, and clutch and lightweight flywheel.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Yeah I'm pretty sure its for Forced Induction though due to the larger volume of air you're cramming through the MAF.

Chris

 

[Matthew]

got the website for the AWR header? how much hp you think youll get from the header and intake manifold?

 

[PaulMP3]

someone with an mp3 spent a few g's tuning his NA mp3 and ended up blowing his motor. He posted it in protegeclub.com
it will be interesting to see what kind of power the awr header adds.

 

[Matthew]

yea im not interesting in doing my heads probably is the most likely cause of a blown motor

 

[mp3boy1984]

website for perfworks??

 

[sundevilMP5]

i think that a NA build up would be sweet...but i think in the end that it could be just as expensive as a turbo...i would still like to find out exactly what roger foo had his setup like...although a total track car still interesting to know...

 

[PaulMP3]

there was a write up in auto week on a scca protege race car. i think it had like 200hp and redline @ 8000. but i doubt it would last long, or be a daily driver.

 

[mp3boy1984]

oh yea, and any info on how much the intake manifold will be running?? How long until the release of it?? And will it be better than the intake manifold offered on the j-spec engines?? I need to know this in a hurry cuz i am planning on ordering my intake manifold very soon and need to make a decision

 

[DooMer_MP3]

As you can see, there is a little thread revival from a thread by "chooch" on his 130WHP P5 with: Custom cams, Header, K&N cone filter, and Racing beat exhaust:

http://www.protegemp3.com/vbb225/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9590

I wonder how much his custom cams are. People on the other board also say that any cams past the Mazdaspeed cams might be too aggressive for the stock valve springs, thus causing valve float. Any opinions on this?

Anyhow, 130WHP with those mods and no computer tuning is pretty good. I wonder what some adjustable camgears, HC pistons and Perfworks piggyback could get out of this setup.

Chris

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Wow, and now it looks like RacingMazda.com will modify their MX-6 header to fit the Protege. And the thing is only ~$290. Sign up in the groupbuy forum if you're interested.

Chris

 

[Dimitrios]

I can't imagine any cam kit not recommending or being packaged with new valve springs - it only makes sense (for those of you that have built-up any US V8s, you'll know).

Does anyone know what the general parasitic losses are from the accessories and drivetain? A "rule-of-thumb" percentage would be fine....

 

[AndrewSilverMP5]

20% for manuals

25% for automatics

Disclaimer: That's my personal rule of thumb ... I'm not always right, but I'm hardly ever wrong. Heheh.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

I was hoping some of the known gearheads would jump in here . Perfworks, chdesign etc. Where are ya guys? Perfworks, what can your piggyback do for a NA setup?

Chris

 

[20ESGUY]

Honestly, i think for most people that wanna go na and make some good power all you really need is the cams, header, cam gears, and the piggy back. With our cars running as rich as they do, the header should be the biggest improvement from that standpoint...leans out the a/f just a bit. With the piggyback system we could actually lean it out a little further, which would be great at WOT as it goes so rich now that we are probably losing some power. With those mods and some good tuning we could realisticaly see 170-190 at the crank. I think the bill for that will be quite a bit less than a 3K plus turbo kit and nearly the same numbers with less constant tuning. I think you'll find too, by going NA you'll see a more linear HP and torque curve than with a turbo vechile...don't get me wrong, turbo is fun...nothing like the feeling of being hit by a mac truck in the rear...but for all around everyday driving my personal opnion is to stay NA

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Thanks for the response man. Good stuff . Yeah, we really do run pig rich. If I could see 180hp at the crank or close to it, I think I would enjoy my MP3 much more. I don't have the cash to fork over $3500 all at once plus money for new clutch and money for other misc. things that could go wrong with a turbo. So I might do the NA thing for awhile until I get rid of some debt as well. Still undecided and hope a friendly info session/debate in this thread will help.

Also, I wonder what Higher Compression pistons would do? What do those typically do over stock? Obviously a higher compression ratio but what does that do to low, mid, high end power? Because I was thinking if I went NA I'd get my head polished and while its apart throw in some HC pistons. Who knows.

The key to this all though is tuning, and its nice to see an affordable unit very close to production!

Chris

 

[20ESGUY]

HC pistons will give you a little extra punch from the midrange up till the upper rpm band. Just keep in mind that HC will cause knock earlier and requires premium fuel. Polishing is a good thing...while you're doing the polishing why not port match the exhaust and intake ports. that'll open em up a little so that they flow more air, and the more air you flow the more power you can make....thats what i like about NA it's all about the little details, polish this, port that, and most of the time if done in moderation it'll come out nicely.

 

[DooMer_MP3]

Thanks again 20ESGUY. Another question came to me. The MP3 has advanced ignition timing. I'm assuming that Perfworks' piggyback would advance timing on say a P5 or ES to give the same benefit the MP3 has. I wonder if the MP3 is advanced far enough, or is there room for more from the piggyback without knock. Would the MP3's current timing need to be retarded if HC pistons were purchased?

Cam timing (through adj. cam gears) is completely different, as it determines when each cam opens the intake/exhaust valves and controls overlap a bit, I take it. Is my understanding of cam timing correct? What are typical things people do with cam timing (specifically on the FS-DE) to get some gains? Thanks again. I'm just trying to get some information. I'll have to look around the net as well.

I'll have to look into some shops around Madison/Milwaukee for headwork. I'll also have to look at port matching some. Thanks!

Chris

 

[perfworks]

website for perfworks??

shes under construction.
about a week and a half shell be ready