My new MAF setup + extra pictures
- Thread starter CasopoliS
- Start date
MazdaSpeedSter
Member
- :
- Laser Blue MSP #2733_sold
Can't wait to get mine done... Waiting on a few more things, then I'll have my SU's cold side pipe with the reloc MAF & HKS ssqv on it...
i think the only thing that will kill the MAF is temperature and max flow... the fact that the air (in the maf's point of view) is pushed in rather than sucked in surely won't change a thing.. i work in a industrial insturmentation firm and i install regularly diffrenrential pressure units to calculate level in liquid filled tanks as well as coriolis flow meters in piping to measure flow of gas or vapor.
although things like that cost 5 K$ and more per instrument it's all relatively the same thing... 2 things can kill a measuring instrument
A- one being HEAT.. the heat that this MAF can hold depends solely on how much boost your pushing through it.. i mean at 15 PSI on the stock turbo you at max effiencey and it's giving out ALOT of hot air.. alot more than a bigger turbo at 10 psi.. or 5 for that matter.. pressurised air will build up heat.. so if the maf stays in the stock place by the airbox it will never get that heat as the air is not yet pressurised.. if you put it near the intake mani, it gets more heat, but less since the air is cooled by the intercooler.. thus, having a lower temperature on the maf as well.. it's a while guess but air over 200F will surely kill it.. but i dont think it will reach that high at 7 psi..
if i remember, at 12 psi with no intercooler you get something like 350 degrees F..on a toyota CT26 turbo... i had a page about that somewhere..
anyways im not that far off as for air temperature.
B- the other that will kill the maf is MAXIMUM FLOW if you go over whats it's designe for, you get a bad reading.. on a orifice plate flow meter of coriolis flow meter if you go over 30 feet/second on gas or liquids you're screewed, it will break off and follow the flow.. if you go close to like 25 FEET per second you will begin to have a bad reading.. now if this was to happen to a MAF on a MSP that would be troublesome. you'd end up with a bad reading and even leanout for a few seconds and boom!
now how do we know we don't reach that maximum gas speed in the MAF when l'ets say, we reach 15 psi?
the way this works is rather simple.a MAF(if i remember correctly) calculates the air entering by using the venturi theory...measering the pressure bewteen a sensor at the entrance of the MAF and one at the way out of the MAF.. since the venturi effect will make the pressure between the 2 will be diffrent , so by using that and adding the pipe size (of the maf) in the calculation, it gives out a reading of feet per second and then CFM.. which the ECM uses..
my 2 cents is using a FMIC and relatively low boost ( 10 psi maybe ) will nto harm the MAF..
although things like that cost 5 K$ and more per instrument it's all relatively the same thing... 2 things can kill a measuring instrument
A- one being HEAT.. the heat that this MAF can hold depends solely on how much boost your pushing through it.. i mean at 15 PSI on the stock turbo you at max effiencey and it's giving out ALOT of hot air.. alot more than a bigger turbo at 10 psi.. or 5 for that matter.. pressurised air will build up heat.. so if the maf stays in the stock place by the airbox it will never get that heat as the air is not yet pressurised.. if you put it near the intake mani, it gets more heat, but less since the air is cooled by the intercooler.. thus, having a lower temperature on the maf as well.. it's a while guess but air over 200F will surely kill it.. but i dont think it will reach that high at 7 psi..
if i remember, at 12 psi with no intercooler you get something like 350 degrees F..on a toyota CT26 turbo... i had a page about that somewhere..
anyways im not that far off as for air temperature.
B- the other that will kill the maf is MAXIMUM FLOW if you go over whats it's designe for, you get a bad reading.. on a orifice plate flow meter of coriolis flow meter if you go over 30 feet/second on gas or liquids you're screewed, it will break off and follow the flow.. if you go close to like 25 FEET per second you will begin to have a bad reading.. now if this was to happen to a MAF on a MSP that would be troublesome. you'd end up with a bad reading and even leanout for a few seconds and boom!
now how do we know we don't reach that maximum gas speed in the MAF when l'ets say, we reach 15 psi?
the way this works is rather simple.a MAF(if i remember correctly) calculates the air entering by using the venturi theory...measering the pressure bewteen a sensor at the entrance of the MAF and one at the way out of the MAF.. since the venturi effect will make the pressure between the 2 will be diffrent , so by using that and adding the pipe size (of the maf) in the calculation, it gives out a reading of feet per second and then CFM.. which the ECM uses..
my 2 cents is using a FMIC and relatively low boost ( 10 psi maybe ) will nto harm the MAF..
Last edited:
MazdaSpeedSter
Member
- :
- Laser Blue MSP #2733_sold
(bump)
Check mine out!
Want more pic's, just ask!
Check mine out!
Want more pic's, just ask!
If you take out your MAF you'll know immediately what everyone is talking about. As mentioned before - DO NOT REMOVE IT! The mesh straightens the airflow around the MAF filament so it can get a better measurement of the flow characteristics. Technically, I guess if you relocate your MAF into a rediculously straight pipe (like 10" straight before the MAF) I guess you wouldn't really have a problem but who has that?
Also, to the comment about maxxing the flow of the MAF - I've had this happen on more than one occasion because somehow, when I drive in heavy rain for extended periods of time, I get water in the intake system. This messes with the filament causing it to read high. I've had this happen on three different occasions and the only things that happen are (1) fuel cut and relatively low loads, and (2) a CEL will come on if it fuel cuts too many times in a row. That CEL being "MAS voltage too high".
Ha, don't blame you there are all. I do believe it is a separate piece and I guess it is possible yours could not have considering some people here say their's have just fallen out. It's really just a little platic-disk-mesh thing that sits in the MAF housing right before the filament. I wish I had a picture somewhere - I probably do at home considering a have two MAFs (one is a spare) but just none at work.I guess I'm wondering if this mesh is a separate piece that can be easily removed or does it have to be cut out. I have a CAI and I'm too lazy to dismantle that in the cold weatherI really don't remember seeing it, I've been thinking maybe I bought the car like that.
i have my mesh / grill/ diffusor off and my car never felt better.
it is true that the diffusor grill does straighten out the airflow a bit... but since air travels faster in the center of a pipe than on the sides and the sensor itself is in the center on the maf, it's ok.
as for having 10 inches before, the maf, not quite true,
the usual maf need about 2-3 diameter size in lenght.. so it's more like 5"-6" long...
diffusor has been off for like 6 months and the car is alot better without it..
take that grill and hold it about 6" from you mouth and blow through it..and put you hand on the other side.. then try it without the grill in place... see how restrictive it is..
Ok, so I exaggerated a little on the pipe length - 6" is probably mnore accurate. And even though it is true the flow velocity is at it's highest in the center of a pipe it does not mean that flow is necessarily uniform or undisturbed. The mesh, albeit slightly resitrictive straightens the flow making it more uniform before it hits the filament so the filament can get a better reading. Removing the mesh probably did feel a little better and it might be even running a little better because of the freed-up flow but I still think there's possibility for misreading which could lead to wonky A/F readings. I really should test this as I have two MAFs and could compare the differences in perceived performance and AFRs.
crashkelly
Banned
just wait until something breaks off, shoots through your maf, and destroys your turbo...or in the case of a relocated maf your engine. That diffuser will stop something flowing in the air path that could potentially destroy your car.
Mine saved my turbo when a piece of plastic broke off my intake and got sucked into the maf. I think taking off the diffuser is not only a waste, but it doesnt do anything to help performance enough to warrant taking it out.
Mine saved my turbo when a piece of plastic broke off my intake and got sucked into the maf. I think taking off the diffuser is not only a waste, but it doesnt do anything to help performance enough to warrant taking it out.
- :
- '13 CWP MS3 & '16 Mazda6 GT
As far as something flying around in the intake tract, I guess I rely on the filter to do its job. (shrug) My intake piping is all metal, so I'm not worried about anything breaking off and flying into my turbo/engine.
I removed my diffuser 2 years ago when I relocated my MAF and the car's been running just peachy since.
crashkelly
Banned
Hey I am just giving fair warning...a piece of plastic from my filter was the part that broke off and shot into the maf rather than the turbo. I think you will have less chance of something going through a relocated maf because the intercooler is in the way...but I would still never take it off...
the maf can be sensitive and now that I have a unichip coming today I wish I never relocated because apparently you cannot tune a unichip to run with a relocated maf.
No, no, I understand your view and I don't mean to shoot it down or anything. Just sharing my experience.
As far as the Unichip is concerned, you can tune with a relocated MAF, it's just that the car doesn't run optimally (poor MPG) with a relocated MAF on the stock Unichip maps.
crashkelly
Banned
I dunno, I have been hearing different things...JDM Sam swears that you cannot tune for it because of Air Reversion (air that goes back through the maf when the throttle body closes), but I am going to hook it up anyway and see how it runs (oh and it has a custom tune...not one for my mods though...but I am going to take it to altered atmosphere in MD for a dyno tune)
Oh yeah, I read the thread you started about that. Good luck with Altered Atmosphere. Let us all know how it turns out. (thumb)
crashkelly
Banned
i definately will...I am waiting for them to call me this morning so I will ask them about the relocated maf situation.
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