MSP 2731 Goes Forged
- Thread starter MSP 2731
- Start date
Ok, I heard back and I guess the shop I used isn't a good engine builder as they just balanced it without any of these things and they never asked about them. So now how would I get the flywheel and pressure plate balanced as "standalone"? And what harm may come if these items are not balanced on the engine? Sorry for the noob questions but please remember this is my first build.
Thanks. I would have prefered it have been done quicker but this was as fast as my available funds would allow.
Fidanza balances their parts at the factory, it also help they are cut from a solid chunk of metal. Exedy also sells pre-balanced parts. Believe me when I say they wouldn't ship something out that could not be bolted up to a car and ran out of the box. These companies dont have enough tech support people on staff to deal with the phone calls they would get.
Should I believe this and all the experienced engine builders I've dealt with:
or this, from someone who sells parts and parrots off whatever marketing bulls*** is fed by the maker?
its a round piece of metal ok? anything like that is going to be somewhat balanced because of its inherent nature... it's like CD discs... you don't see weight on them, and they're not perfectly balanced... but they work fine because they aren't insanely imbalanced and the drive motors in players are built to handle the imbalances... engines are too, up to an extent but that means you LOSE power
even if the aluminum itself is balanced, adding the so over-hyped steel friction plate will throw it all off
the tech support thing is bulls***... most people don't know what to hear/feel/look for... they won't know that some extra vibrations were caused by a bad flywheel... there's a few people here that said "oh, that's what that vibration was" after I told them about the crapdanza imbalance... it's NOT enough to make the car feel like a san francisco earthquake, it's just subtle enough that the inexperienced will just pass it off as "hard motor mounts" (most who have this flywheel, have AWR mounts, etc)... and there's more inexperienced in this world than experienced ones... thats why machine shops and repair shops are in business right? if everyone knew everything, perhaps there would be utopia
FWIW, yashooa's car has a FULLY balanced bottom end (the proper way to do it!) with a MSF flywheel... hardly any balancing had to be done to the flywheel or pressure plate... just a gram or so... but the point is, the car idles smooth as hell with AWR mounts and the dashboard doesn't rattle, no buzzes or rattles inside the car, it don't sound like a cheap dildo, etc.. you know there's upgrade motor mounts in the car, but it's so smooth that it's barely any more vibrations than stock
now with completely stock everything with motor mounts... oh boy do the vibrations suck! s*** rattles and buzzes at certain rpms, you feel the engine "thumping" at the seat of your pants, etc
or this, from someone who sells parts and parrots off whatever marketing bulls*** is fed by the maker?
its a round piece of metal ok? anything like that is going to be somewhat balanced because of its inherent nature... it's like CD discs... you don't see weight on them, and they're not perfectly balanced... but they work fine because they aren't insanely imbalanced and the drive motors in players are built to handle the imbalances... engines are too, up to an extent but that means you LOSE power
even if the aluminum itself is balanced, adding the so over-hyped steel friction plate will throw it all off
the tech support thing is bulls***... most people don't know what to hear/feel/look for... they won't know that some extra vibrations were caused by a bad flywheel... there's a few people here that said "oh, that's what that vibration was" after I told them about the crapdanza imbalance... it's NOT enough to make the car feel like a san francisco earthquake, it's just subtle enough that the inexperienced will just pass it off as "hard motor mounts" (most who have this flywheel, have AWR mounts, etc)... and there's more inexperienced in this world than experienced ones... thats why machine shops and repair shops are in business right? if everyone knew everything, perhaps there would be utopia
FWIW, yashooa's car has a FULLY balanced bottom end (the proper way to do it!) with a MSF flywheel... hardly any balancing had to be done to the flywheel or pressure plate... just a gram or so... but the point is, the car idles smooth as hell with AWR mounts and the dashboard doesn't rattle, no buzzes or rattles inside the car, it don't sound like a cheap dildo, etc.. you know there's upgrade motor mounts in the car, but it's so smooth that it's barely any more vibrations than stock
now with completely stock everything with motor mounts... oh boy do the vibrations suck! s*** rattles and buzzes at certain rpms, you feel the engine "thumping" at the seat of your pants, etc
bring it to a DIFFERENT shop (they don't deserve your business) that does true hot rod engine builds and have them just balance those 2 pieces alone... there's nothing to it... just drop it off and tell them "balance it!"
don't forget the pressure plate bolts!
I can stand the vibrations so I will wait till the next round of mods or till my honda is back up and running before worrying about this then. I can't have the car down at the moment since it is now by default my DD. Thanks for the advice and opinions everyone.
I assumed he was asking whether he should also be concerned about accelerated wear to the bottom end bearings, etc. Or at least that's what I, as a fellow noob to builds, would be most concerned with...
That is the sort of thing I'm concerned about and why I asked what harm might come if these things were not balanced.
there won't be any measurable wear... at least in the near term... but the engine WILL lose potential power
The main priority is to have the crank, rods, and pistons balanced alone. Those are the ones that will contribute to your bearing wear. This engine is internally balanced free of the pulley and flywheel.
If you balance it with the 2 parts attached, if you machine the flywheel, or change either the flywheel or pulley with a different piece your internal balance will be off.
The crank pulley is balanced from the factory.
The Fidanza I would not worry too much if you didn't get it balanced.
Many have run it straight out of the box with no short or long term problems.
If you balance it with the 2 parts attached, if you machine the flywheel, or change either the flywheel or pulley with a different piece your internal balance will be off.
The crank pulley is balanced from the factory.
The Fidanza I would not worry too much if you didn't get it balanced.
Many have run it straight out of the box with no short or long term problems.
The engine is internally balanced, if your bearings get shot its due from improper clearances on the crank journals, main caps, and rods, or oil starvation.
Fidanza's Flywheels work fine and will not cause you to have any engine damage if you run it out of the box.
The Fidanza weigh 7.5 lbs made of aluminum vs the 18 lb stock steel one. If it's off balance by a few grams it won't cause as much vibration as the rotating mass is less. It's like you rotating a foam plate vs a ceramic plate.
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I take no offence. It would have been nice if everything had gone off without a hitch but I feel better about the problems I'm encountering knowning that my experience will help others. How far into it are you?
I'm just getting started. My car is stock motor and I'm building a forged junkyard motor.... I'm hoping the shop will look at my block and take some measurements to see if I need over bore or not, in the next couple weeks. Then I'll start ordering parts.
I think I'll go start reading up on everything TheMan says....
I think I'll go start reading up on everything TheMan says....
