MS3 vs. WRX

[8cd03gro]

that is expected with any new car. As for mazdaspeed having problems I am on these forums everyday and I have not heard of any turbocharger related issues with mazdaspeed vehicles. If you are so convinced mazda can't turbocharge a car, what are you doing in this forum?

mazda hasnt screwed up on their turbo cars? reliability wise, mazda has not done very well with their turbo cars. just look at the msp, everyone here is afraid of blowing a rod wether they let it on or not. mazda screwed up putting such weak rods in the msp. and people are bustin lsd's stock too! when i drove the msp it felt great, but i would hate being afraid to hit it all the time and drive hard because of the fear of my engine blowing. all cars have problems, but i would expect to be able to run wot in 5th gear in any car stock without having to worry about blowing my engine. and if you truly think rx-7's are reliable, you obviously have no idea what reliable is.

 

[Matthew]

I would have to say the WRX...even though I loved my Mazda, AWD is definately better. Furthermore, the WRX has a killer aftermarket. You can spend a couple thousand and easily add ton of horsepower....engine management is easier on the WRX as well, instead of the poopy ECUs Mazda uses. You can put down 250-260awhp with these mods on a regular WRX:

Cobb AP (<500)
PDX Tuning email map (150)
VF39 turbo (used 250-300)
CBE/Up/downpipes (used 5-600)
FMIC (debatable whether even needed) (eBay version 400)
STi Pink injectors - (used 200-250)
Walbro fuel pump - (debatable if needed, 80)

Even look at the engineering...on a WRX the stock TMIC and intake are good for like 300hp. Putting an intake on the WRX lowers the HP.

One thing is suspension though. The Mazdas (even my P5) has the WRX on stock suspension. Again though, the aftermarket is so great for the Subys that everything is cheaper

 

[Rotary_Powered]

And if you Mazda speed the MS3 you'll get 293hp For about a grand.

 

[Matthew]

And which will win at the track? AWD ftw!

 

[seanw]

And which will win at the track? AWD ftw!

Read the MT review. The MS3 won the autocross and the slalom. I'm not seeing an AWD advantage there. At higher speeds, there's even more reason to think the MS3 would win at the track, unless you mean the drag strip. At the drag strip the MS3 loses time on launch and due to the extra shift needed on the 6-speed. But on a race track at high speeds, the MS3 will walk away from the WRX. Look at the 10-mph interval times taken from MT's figures. The MS3 is faster during every interval that does include a shift.

MS3/WRX
30-40: 1.1/1.2
40-50: 1.0/1.2
50-60: 1.7/1.3
60-70: 1.3/2.0
70-80: 2.2/ 1.9
80-90: 2.0/2.2
90-100: 3.0/3.3

And 60-90 the MS3 has a 1/2 second lead on the WRX. Add mods to both and you just get more of the same. MS3 ftw!

 

[Rainman]

This car is going to be a monster at the track. I can hardly wait until I get an opportunity to take one on the track. If I can pick one up over the winter or in the spring, I'll be tracking it at Calabogie Motorsports just outside of Ottawa whenever I can get the chance next summer.

R

 

[Mikey444]

I would go WRX for 2 reasons:

1 - the brakes

2 - Symetrical all wheel drive, if you have a sandpit somewhere or some country backroads the WRX will please you a lot more

 

[racer x 3]

I was just wondering which car you guys would get. I realize I will get biased opionions but I thought I would ask anyways.

The WRX is about 1-2 grand more so its not a big deal at all. Basically do not factor the price difference into your decision.

They are both very powerful. The key differences are that the WRX has AWD, the MS3 has a nicer interior.

Which do you guys think is more powerful?

Thanks

here is another biased opinion but take it for what its worth...... i havent analyzed the #'s yet BUT.....acceleration MAY lag a bit with the WRX because power is being filtered by the AWD also affecting mpg...... if i were in your shoes this time 2 years ago though (pretending both cars existed) i'd have gone Subie (love it)..... but all things accounted for IMO i say go 'SPEED 3 all the way....

 

[rotaryrider36]

here is another biased opinion but take it for what its worth...... i havent analyzed the #'s yet BUT.....acceleration MAY lag a bit with the WRX because power is being filtered by the AWD also affecting mpg...... if i were in your shoes this time 2 years ago though (pretending both cars existed) i'd have gone Subie (love it)..... but all things accounted for IMO i say go 'SPEED 3 all the way....

The mazdaspeed 3 definately pulls alot harder than the wrx. Especially up top. trust me.

 

[tsunami]

I would have to say the WRX...even though I loved my Mazda, AWD is definately better. Furthermore, the WRX has a killer aftermarket. You can spend a couple thousand and easily add ton of horsepower....engine management is easier on the WRX as well, instead of the poopy ECUs Mazda uses. You can put down 250-260awhp with these mods on a regular WRX:

Cobb AP (<500)
PDX Tuning email map (150)
VF39 turbo (used 250-300)
CBE/Up/downpipes (used 5-600)
FMIC (debatable whether even needed) (eBay version 400)
STi Pink injectors - (used 200-250)
Walbro fuel pump - (debatable if needed, 80)

Even look at the engineering...on a WRX the stock TMIC and intake are good for like 300hp. Putting an intake on the WRX lowers the HP.
One thing is suspension though. The Mazdas (even my P5) has the WRX on stock suspension. Again though, the aftermarket is so great for the Subys that everything is cheaper

cobb has a ms3 on order to make their tuner for... they already have the tuner through most production stages on the ms6 and rx8... i think the tuner is a huge step in the right direction... aslo check out the cpe site they are doing a lot with the disi engine in the ms6 and cx7 already...

 

[CHICO2003]

According to the latest MT issue, despite the fact that the WRX has far less hp & tq, it STILL accelerates faster in the all-important (partial sarcasm) 0-60 and 1/4 mile... I can't recall the exact figures but, if I recall, though it wasn't a huge difference... it wasn't minor either. Since both cars weigh (exactly) the same, I was surprised. I guess the combinaton of AWD allows the underpowered WRX to beat up on the MS3. I can't help but feel dissapointed... I was under the impression that the decision to go with the FWD would save weight and cut down on the drivetrain loss... or whatever. As it stands, the MS3 isn't even as fast as the now defunct Neon SRT-4!

Hopefully MT's #s were off... but I doubt it.

Even still, for some (including myself) the MS3 still represents the better buy. While most seem to think the WRX's interior is s***, I (along with anyone who's actually been inside one) knows better. While still not as nice as the 3, the quality is far better than the POS they put in during the 02-04 years. The frameless doors really kill it. I like to hear a solid 'thunk' when I close the door. That's obviously impossible with a framless door. So yeah... haven driven both cars (the latest WRX and 3 hatch of course) the Mazda obviously has the better interior. It'll most likely also offer a more rewarding driving experience... though, that is a bit subjective. For those who like to trounce through dirt roads and power slide / drift through corners (not to mention upgrade the hell out of their car for very little $$$) the WRX clearly represents the better buy.

Because I've come extremely close to buying one recently, I know for a fact that most Subaru dealerships are practically giving away WRXs (all trims) for around invoice. (I didn't even have to negotiate to get $100 over invoice... not their invoice mind you, the invoice I found on the web) So that's a factor. Though the sticker on the WRX may be considerably higher, since most Mazda dealerships won't be buding off the sticker on the MS3, the WRX could potentially be less expensive... and arguably, the better overall value.

Extremely tough choice to say the least.

 

[kamon8404]

This is going to be a debate that will go on forever. Just 2 days ago I was at barnes and noble looking for a magazine to read when I came across atleast 3 magazines comparing the WRX to the MS3. This is going to go down just like the STI vs EVO comparison. I would personally have to sit down and really look at the 2. I have always had a thing for the WRX, but now that I own a mazda I'm biased. The mazda community (ie the fourm) has been nothing short of great; but, the dealer on the other hand has been nothing but a pain in the ass. In fact I was considering sueing them for a little while there. A good friend of mine, has had nothing but great things from his subey dealer, and has had no problems with all the mods he has done (he burns STIs on a regular). So, if it was me, and I had the money for both, I would have to consider which was more suitable for MY needs, and not based off of everyone elses opinion.

WRX - AWD, reliable, great service, looks, and huge aftermarket
MS3 - Rare! Fast, reliable (based on the MS6/CX7 owners -same engine), fast FWD production car, great interior, handles well, and spacious.

So you decide. I would have to say that is that I would pick the WRX, just because I know that subey has a great car, and I live where it has almost 9 months of winter. I'm sure that I could have a lot of fun on those snowey roads with AWD. Hense my friend can do doughnuts like you wouldn't believe.
If I was going to say in the south MS3 hands down!

 

[CHICO2003]

The mazdaspeed 3 definately pulls alot harder than the wrx. Especially up top. trust me.

Not callin :bsr anything but... have you driven the MS3? If so, this is clearly a story we all have to hear. If not... well... lol I guess I AM calling :bs: LOL

Though the latest MT article wasn't as complete/concise as most of us would have liked, I think it's clear that, despite the fact that it's underpowered, the WRX is STILL able to hang (and then some) with the MS3. In some respects, it seems similar to how the LGT compared favorably to the higher powered MS6. on the other hand, while the LGT provided a better overall driving experience, it seems that the MS3 may prove to be the victor in this category. that type of thing is highly subjective, however, and is usually better left up to oneself to determine... as opposed to some magazine editor. One thing that's not debateable, however are the times each car posted. Even if they're both inaccurate, all things being relative means we're still able to see which car is faster. Sadly, stock vs stock, the WRX is still faster. Obviously that margin only widens once the aftermarket rears its ugly head.

F it though... I'm a loyal mazda owner so my money's on the MS3. (even if I wasn't, those pitiful green backlit gauges on the WRX would drive me insane) That's reason enough to get the STi!

 

[Rio Racer]

The styling of the WRX is growing on me now.

 

[1sty]

Considering the problem I have had with Mazda's and how much I loved my STi, this is a no brainer for me. WRX all the way.

The clunk on the MP3 was annoying to say the least but the never ending march of completly retarded dealer service techs was enough to make me want to kill the car. Then the 03 protege LX blows a completley stock engine at 55000 miles. There's a nice $2500 WTF. Add to that the POS protege has been through 4 front wheel bearings and has a shot exhuast. Then you had my 6 which had improperly set break wear indicators then randomly throws a Cel at 6.5K and ends up needing a new throttle body. Anyone care to guess what the dealer would have done in that situation if I had already bought the intake?

As for the Mazda Turbo history, the RX-7 was a damn reliability nightmare do to the turbos in the early 90's. The mazdaspeed protege was a friggen dud of a tuning job so lets not kid around there. Between the all but stock FS-DE engine and an incrdebly bad intial tuning, dealerships were backed up with pissed off owners over the car randomly hitting a wall at 3500 RPm. Then 3 months in they all start hearing clunk..clunk. Another well solved problem with BS fix after BS fix.

The MS MX-5 and 6 were better but not without there host of issues from all over the board.

Atleast in my mind Mazda does not have the engineering talent and certainly not the proper trained tech staff in place to service cars like this and although it might be the minority, I am not geting burned with that crap twice. Especialy when I thought I was doing the smart thing and ditching the Civic with 130K miles for a brand new protege. The civics engine is still fine, the protege's is in a junk yard.



The STi on the other hand...I miss that car everyday. 24K miles of good times. The only oddity was the jammed trunk lock...which ended up being my wife's fault.

 

[CHICO2003]

hmm... so you're saying you'd go with the MS3?

 

[seanw]

According to the latest MT issue, despite the fact that the WRX has far less hp & tq, it STILL accelerates faster in the all-important (partial sarcasm) 0-60 and 1/4 mile... I can't recall the exact figures but, if I recall, though it wasn't a huge difference... it wasn't minor either. Since both cars weigh (exactly) the same, I was surprised. I guess the combinaton of AWD allows the underpowered WRX to beat up on the MS3. I can't help but feel dissapointed... I was under the impression that the decision to go with the FWD would save weight and cut down on the drivetrain loss... or whatever. As it stands, the MS3 isn't even as fast as the now defunct Neon SRT-4!

Hopefully MT's #s were off... but I doubt it.

.... Though the sticker on the WRX may be considerably higher, since most Mazda dealerships won't be buding off the sticker on the MS3, the WRX could potentially be less expensive... and arguably, the better overall value.

Extremely tough choice to say the least.

I agree that if the WRX ends up being cheaper than the MS3, it really is a toss-up and a matter of personal preference. But, in fact, the Subie lost in EVERY criterion (handling, braking, fit and finish) EXCEPT the 0-60 and 1/4 mile acceleration. Given its lower power-to-weight ratio, those times are a huge credit to it's AWD. But, as I've tried to point out in this and the other WRX thread, that is far from the end of the acceleration story. After launch, the WRX lost in every 10 mph acceleration bracket that didn't include a gear change by the MS3. 60-90 it lost by 1/2 a second! That's more than the amount it won the 0-60 by.

So, if you're looking for the best drag-racer/daily-driver for the money (below 100 mph, anyway), go with the WRX. If you're looking for the best track-car/daily-driver, go with the MS3.

 

[rotaryrider36]

I most certainly have driven the MS3. a few weeks ago, mazda gave our dealership a MS3 to demo at our weekley meets held at the dealership. I work for Sansone Mazda in Jersey. I was personally sent to retrieve the car from Irwin Mazda, who had the car because they were showing it at a raceway park (Englishtown NJ) event over the weekend. I had a very invigorating drive with the car all the way up rt 9 and back to my dealership. Boost does not feel as strong as I would have thought in first gear (guessing its so that the front wheels can gain some traction) especially when compared with the MS6. However, it picks up alot more in second gear, and once you hit third gear its all over. The ability for this car to pull in third gear is amazing. The MS6 feels weak in comparison in this gear and its truly where the MS3 shines. If the production version of this car is half as good as the prototype I drove, no one who buys one will be dissapointed. Mazda has done the car and the fans right. The awd in the wrx does make it feel like it gets off the line faster but its minimal. The MS3 will catch up with the subie and not only catch up to it, but walk away smiling. Here are some pics from the night we had it at the dealer. Several members on this board attended the meet and know me personally. Im sure theyd be happy to vouch for me that I do indeed work for the dealership and also drove the car.
http://s68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/yourmomblows/mazda meet september 12 2006/
P.S. I was most pleased with the stock exhaust note. Just the perfect pitch. Very deep and aggressive but no where near as annoying as the srt4

 

[ZoomVT]

those are nice pics man.

this thread is getting old with the speculation. There are some good points for both arguments but it really is just a personal choice. There is no right ro wrong; you will not feel like a loser with either car (depending where you live; if you have a wrx where i live you will feel like a loser). Both cars are very nice and the way i see it:

WRX:
-AWD
-"Better" 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.

MS3
-Better interior (as some people pointed out; it is not tons better but still better)
-Crazy amounts of power after the first 2 gears
-Limited Production

Although it is nice to have all power on tap off a dig; i would probably compromise and settle for the limited boost on the first 2 gears just to make the car driveable. Knowing that the car will pull in every gear after that. Interior is huge for me; i have sat in a wrx recently; and the interior still feels cheap. Here where i live there are tons of WRX and i personally would rather go with a rare car instead of blending in.

 

[mookiebarras]

Exhaust.....

When i first started looking at the speed 3's i found a post (not sure if it was this board or another) and someone videotaped a speed 3 test drive at a dealer. anyone know where this video is? i want to hear the exhaust.

thanks