MS3 - Is it a smart buy for MN winters?

[shelmeister]

I've come out of lurking to ask for a little advice!

Researching the MS3 has been extremely entertaining because, well, it's an amazing car! But I can't help but ask if it would still be a smart buy for MN winters? I've noticed that many MS3 owners on this site have an extra set of winter tires, but how is the overall handling of the MS3 on snow/ice?

Also, what can a driver new to manual transmissions expect as far as winter driving?

I'm curious to hear some insights from anyone who has time to share

 

[Peter B]

The one real drawback to this car is those potenza tires in snow. They just don't cut it.
You will definitely need winter snow tires, or at least 4 seasons for this car. That said once you have them, it is actually a very capable car on snowy roads. I have raved about this before on this site more then once. I got some cheapo Sunny brand snowtires and 16" rims at town fair tire. (not sure if they have any stores in MN). The cost of the tires and rims was $749.00. Beat the best price on tire-rack by about $100 if you include shipping.

With the snows on this car handled better in the snow then any I other car I have owned or driven in bad weather. Those 263 horsies come in handy when powering through the deep stuff. The traction control is pretty decent, and overall the car has a pretty good stance, and thus handling in snowy weather. The nicest part about the manual transition in the snow is it gives you extra control of your car. I was warned by many people that driving stick in the snow would be very hard. I found it to be quite pleasant and much easier then everyone said it would be. Downshifting to slow the wheels down on steep hills and ice patches is a useful ability. Being able to keep it in low gear when going up hill, or powering out of a snow bank is nice too.

My shining example was a big 3 day blizzard we got this past winter. I was out in it all 3 days kicking ass, only got stuck once for a brief moment, and then was on my way again.

The car will still slide around if you push it, or hit a really bad ice patch, but so will any other car.

So as long as you can afford getting snows tires, you shouldn't have an issue. Your best option will be smaller rims and tires as it is usually cheaper then 18" snow tires. When I priced em it was over $900 for just 4 18" snow tires. $150 more then the 16" rim AND tire package I wound up getting.

Hope this answers your question.

-Pete

 

[shelmeister]

Thanks so much for your advice, Pete! It certainly answers a lot of my concerns.

Would it be silly to simply wrap all-season tires around the factory wheels and use them all year long? That would cut out buying an extra set of wheels/tires just for winters...

 

[m5rMS3]

I would agree with everything Peter said. This car is great in the snow once you get the stock tires off. Driving a stick in the winter is much better since you can always downshift to decellerate without worrying about the abs kicking in.

I would reccomend buying dedicated snow tires if you have to drive in the snow much. They are soooooooo much better than all season. I bought 4 16" stock mazda 3 wheels from a forum member for about $200 and 4 snow tires for about $250. Altogether was about half the price of 4 18" tires alone.

 

[D-Cash24]

I lived in MN until this last winter and snow tires are a must have in my opinion, and having a smaller diameter wheel than 18" would be nice if you can spend the cash. I thought that having a manual transmission was a lot nicer in the winter than an automatic, second gear starts when it is icy is awesome.
I think that any front wheel drive car with a set of dedicated snow tires will do wonderfully in almost any winter condition. Look on craigslist or the for-sale thread on here and you may be able to pick a set up for cheap during the warmer months.

 

[shelmeister]

Thanks m5rMS3 & D-Cash24! I'm relieved to know that the MS3 performs well overall in the snowy/icy conditions (with winter equipment of course).

 

[Peter B]

You certainly could do that, but you might want to look at the cost of doing it both ways and compare. I know for 18" snow tires you will pay more for the tires alone then you will for a say a 16" tire/rim package. I don't know how all season tires compare price wise.

I think the potenzas are pretty decent tires for the spring/summer/fall and like putting them back on when the weather is warm. Also, switching wheels means my nice OEM rims don't get beaten up from all the salt and sand.

I think though, as long as you aren't on the stock tires when the snow comes you should be fine.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

The MS3 is a great car all-around and it did surprisingly well in the winter with my spare set of winter tires.

A big recommendation, use 205 series tires! I made the stupid decision of 215/50/17's as my size and the tires were catching every single section of snow and I was constantly fighting the wheel. The LSD is sort've annoying in the snow. Instead of one wheel catchin heavy stuff while the other keeps going, it just jerks the wheel to whatever side is struggling and they both work together. So you have to constantly pop the throttle through it.

Performance winter tires would be the preferred choice. Studless would be for all out snow all winter long. Thankfully in MI, it could be 60 degrees one day, 12" of snow the next. So I opted for performance winters.

 

[bacarl]

Performance winter tires would be the preferred choice. Studless would be for all out snow all winter long. Thankfully in MI, it could be 60 degrees one day, 12" of snow the next. So I opted for summers.

Do you mean "Studded" and "Studless"...?

 

[happy and angry]

The MS3 handles Canadian winters just fine, I can't imagine MN can throw anything at it that it won't be able to handle. Just make sure you get a good set of winter tires on there and you'll be fine.

 

[Poet-Tek]

I got some Michelin Alpin PA2 "Performance Winter Tires" and put them on 17" 06 MZ3 Five Spokes. Two Colorado winters so far (one with the MZ3 and one with the MS3) and I couldn't be happier with them. They are almost as good as regular snow tires in deep or hardpack and much better on dry or wet pavement. I haven't gotten stuck since I've had them. With alot of driving in the mountains and during snowstorms in Denver.

Dedicated summer and winter tires are a better option than all seasons...there is $500-1000 more initial cost to getting winter rims and snows, but with two sets you'll get about double the useful time out of them.

And summer track/street tires (Falken Azenis, Michelin RE01, etc) are just amazing in the warm months. They leave any all season tire far behind.

The one big issue I had with the MS3 last winter was the increased cabin rattles and the front swaybar bushings making insane noise before warm up. I'll probably grease the crap out of the poly bushings before next winter. Make a day of it and change out the stock sways for Cobb or some other vendor.

The bushing noise was only an issue when temps were below about 20 degrees.

Hope that helps.

 

[Olestra]

Thanks so much for your advice, Pete! It certainly answers a lot of my concerns.

Would it be silly to simply wrap all-season tires around the factory wheels and use them all year long? That would cut out buying an extra set of wheels/tires just for winters...

I wouldn't say it's silly but just know that you are gaining convenience but compromising performance.
All-season will give you mediocre (at best) winter capabilities and mediocre summer performance.

If you buy at a local shop, some will change your wheel/tire combo each season for free and will save you the hassle. That's one of the main advantages over buying from tire rack.
Tirerack often has better pricing and if you handle your change overs yourself, this is often a better option (avoids having some wrench head scratch your rims or over/under torque your lug nuts).

 

[CHICO2003]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go this route once my stockers are ready for rogaine. I realize there's a compromise but really... how many of us are actually pushing our cars to the limit anyway? Having gone this route in my last car (msp) I feel its' the best overall way to go. I had all-season high performance goodyear eagle F1s. Sure, they were awful in the snow... but still 10x better than my summer tires. And since, at least around here, there's only a significant amount of snow on the ground a handful of days (the rest of the winter is either just cold or the snow has already been plowed making it irrelevant.) As for the traction... sure, they weren't quite as good as my stock potenzas... but I really only noticed that when taking the car through a turn hard. Since that's not all that common... I think that much is slighly over-rated as well.

 

[Poet-Tek]

The other thing to remember is that any summer tire including the Potenza RE050 which comes stock on the MS3 is not intended to be driven anytime the temperature is below 40 degrees. The soft rubber gets hockey puck hard and can contribute to a loss of control even on dry pavement at low temps.

You don't need ice and snow to make summer tires lose grip.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

Do you mean "Studded" and "Studless"...?

Studless, and I corrected my post hehe.

 

[shelmeister]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the feedback. It sounds like the best option is to just fork out for a second set of wheels/tires for winter months, so that's what I'll choose to do if I end up getting the MS3 *crosses fingers*

 

[KellyJoe]

I have a set that I need to get rid of. Wheels are off an '02 626 and are 16's. They are scratched up and aren't all that to look at but would clean up well with a coat of black maybe. They also balance well and ride just fine. I did the all season thing as we don't get much snow/ice here in TN and they are just taking up room in the garage. PM me if anyone is interested. Tires are 205/60-16 General Altimax studdable. Looking to get $300 plus shipping.

 

[Olestra]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to go this route once my stockers are ready for rogaine. I realize there's a compromise but really... how many of us are actually pushing our cars to the limit anyway? Having gone this route in my last car (msp) I feel its' the best overall way to go. I had all-season high performance goodyear eagle F1s. Sure, they were awful in the snow... but still 10x better than my summer tires. And since, at least around here, there's only a significant amount of snow on the ground a handful of days (the rest of the winter is either just cold or the snow has already been plowed making it irrelevant.) As for the traction... sure, they weren't quite as good as my stock potenzas... but I really only noticed that when taking the car through a turn hard. Since that's not all that common... I think that much is slighly over-rated as well.

Also consider traction from stop and braking distance.

 

[Young Roids]

Great winter car. For MN get some 16" winter wheels and winter tires in a 205/60/16 or 215/55/16

 

[Saskatchewan17]

Why does everyone say to get 16" winter wheels and tires? I was planning on putting a set of Blizzaks on the stock wheels that are 215/45/18 and then getting aftermarket wheels next summer. Anything that handles better than those horrid Potenzas did last winter would be a relief. Is this really a bad idea?