MS3 - Is it a smart buy for MN winters?

[Young Roids]

Why does everyone say to get 16" winter wheels and tires? I was planning on putting a set of Blizzaks on the stock wheels that are 215/45/18 and then getting aftermarket wheels next summer. Anything that handles better than those horrid Potenzas did last winter would be a relief. Is this really a bad idea?

For snow they always say get a narrower tire with a taller side wall. I like the 16s for winter because of the pot holes, you don't have to worry about denting your rim and it helps cushion the blow better.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

Yeah, I agree with Young. In the winter, you're less likely to "care". It's cold as hell, snow everywhere, you just want to get from point A to point B. If that means taking an entrance with some form of momentum to plow through the deep stuff, that means taking that turn at a higher rate of speed. I'd rather not worry about low-profile tires in the winter.

 

[shockdoctor]

This car is an exceptionally poor choice for use in MN during the winter. I got rid of mine because it was so horrible to try to drive at anything colder than 10 below zero. The brakes are way too grabby for the cold pavement, even with snow. Steering was really vague when it got below zero too. If you buy a MS3, be sure to get a winter beater with a good heater. I would not recommend this car for winter use unless you have completed some sort of track based high performance driving school.

 

[Peter B]

Why does everyone say to get 16" winter wheels and tires? I was planning on putting a set of Blizzaks on the stock wheels that are 215/45/18 and then getting aftermarket wheels next summer. Anything that handles better than those horrid Potenzas did last winter would be a relief. Is this really a bad idea?

Because when I looked for snow tires, 18" snow tires were way more expensive then a 16" wheel and tire package.

Plus what Roids says is correct. A more narrow tire will work better.

-Pete

 

[CHICO2003]

This car is an exceptionally poor choice for use in MN during the winter. I got rid of mine because it was so horrible to try to drive at anything colder than 10 below zero. The brakes are way too grabby for the cold pavement, even with snow. Steering was really vague when it got below zero too. If you buy a MS3, be sure to get a winter beater with a good heater. I would not recommend this car for winter use unless you have completed some sort of track based high performance driving school.

Exceptionally poor choice? That's a bit strong! A Camaro or a Miata... now those would be 'exceptionally poor'. A 3200lb FWD car (fitted with the proper tires of course) is more than adequate for most people's needs.

While the brakes can be a bit 'grabby' (which is normally a good thing) it doesn't take long to get used to how they fee/react in the sub-zero temps. I think that the steering feel in most cars will suffer in extreme cold temps so that's irrelevant.

As far as getting a winter beater goes... that's some exceptionally poor advice. The beauty of owning an MS3 (or similar car) is the idea that it's sort of a jack of all trades. Since most of the MS3 owners out there were on a budget when they bought the car, incurring yet another expense of owning another vehicle just wouldn't make any sense. (financially, they would have been better off ponying up more $ for a WRX)

In closing... if you find that you're actually DRIVING IN significant snow 5+ times a winter, I think a set of snow tires on steelies is your best bet. For those of us who still endure the bitter cold, but don't find ourselves driving IN snow all that much, a set of high performance all seasons might be a better fit. You'll still be able to enjoy the car and drive it the way it was meant to be driven for most of the winter (as opposed to driving like a pussy with your winter tires) and have the assurance that you won't get stuck in a couple inches of snow. Whether you choose to keep the all-seasons on all year or not is your call. As I said, once my stockers buy the farm, I'll probably go that route. The amount of times I'm actually driving IN snow (even here in CT) just isn't enough to warrant having dedicated great in the snow... pathetic in everything else... snow tires on my car for 3+ months a year.

 

[Young Roids]

This car is an exceptionally poor choice for use in MN during the winter. I got rid of mine because it was so horrible to try to drive at anything colder than 10 below zero. The brakes are way too grabby for the cold pavement, even with snow. Steering was really vague when it got below zero too. If you buy a MS3, be sure to get a winter beater with a good heater. I would not recommend this car for winter use unless you have completed some sort of track based high performance driving school.

Get outta here. I drive mine every winter and have none of those proplems.

 

[bacarl]

Well the brakes are grabby. This bothers me whether it's snowy or not... I just like linear controls, I have qualms with the clutch and brake feel on the MS3, but that's a whole other story.

FWIW, I found my snow set locally on craigslist for $250. 16" steel with 205/60R16 Blizzak Revo-1. So you certainly don't have to shell out a ton of money to have a dedicated set.

 

[Peter B]

This car is an exceptionally poor choice for use in MN during the winter. I got rid of mine because it was so horrible to try to drive at anything colder than 10 below zero. The brakes are way too grabby for the cold pavement, even with snow. Steering was really vague when it got below zero too. If you buy a MS3, be sure to get a winter beater with a good heater. I would not recommend this car for winter use unless you have completed some sort of track based high performance driving school.

Were you high sir? ....only kidding. ...ok ok half kidding.

Like I said, with snows, best car I have ever driven in the snow. Trial by fire (or ice maybe) in a 3 day blizzard and it performed like it was in its element. Even in 10 below.

 

[shelmeister]

This car is an exceptionally poor choice for use in MN during the winter. I got rid of mine because it was so horrible to try to drive at anything colder than 10 below zero. The brakes are way too grabby for the cold pavement, even with snow. Steering was really vague when it got below zero too. If you buy a MS3, be sure to get a winter beater with a good heater. I would not recommend this car for winter use unless you have completed some sort of track based high performance driving school.

Thanks for your opinion, shockdoctor. Although I can't agree or disagree with you (since I have never owned an MS3), I do appreciate the comment. I'm not in the position to own two cars, which is precisely why I started this thread to figure out if the MS3 is a good all-season vehicle and not a summer-only vehicle.

EDIT: How about accelerating on a snow-covered street? I imagine with all that power coming to the wheels, there could be some major spinnage in a situation of starting from a complete stop on a snowy road...

 

[Wehrmacht]

Seems the big topic here has been tires thus far... I only experienced north TX winter in my 08.5 and I was getting fed up with the cold 1-2 shift grinds!!

Every morning when the car was cold same thing, horrid grind from 1 - 2nd gear, ended up getting good at run through 1st gear, then to neutral while i pump the clutch once, then a smooth shift into 2nd. PRETTY ridiculous... Granted that was without the lower motor mount that first winter, so we'll see if things improve with the new motor mount in 09.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

The 2010 MS3's are going to come with a more "cold-weather" compliant transmission fluid. I can't remember the exact spec of fluid used but Mazda will be using it on the 2010. Some members have swapped tranny fluids but if you don't wanna mess with that, you're unfortunately just going to have to deal with the grind.

A real simple fix I adopted for my grind. Most of the time, the trans will grind going from 1st to 2nd when the trans is cold and you're trying to shuffle through the wet stuff. All I did was start moving my shifter sooner and it was fantastic. When i'm about to shift into 2nd, as i'm pushing in the clutch and lifting off the throttle, my gear shifter is moving at the same time. So, as your foot is pushing down on the clutch, so is my shifter being pulled away from 1st and into 2nd.

I wish I had video to show what I was talking about. I even do that on dry when i'm driving slow through the complex.

But if you pause? And proceed to: Clutch, then move the shifter into 2nd... it's definitely grinding in the cold or almost want to bounce away from 2nd like "No..I don't want you yet" lol.

 

[Peter B]

Seems the big topic here has been tires thus far... I only experienced north TX winter in my 08.5 and I was getting fed up with the cold 1-2 shift grinds!!

Every morning when the car was cold same thing, horrid grind from 1 - 2nd gear, ended up getting good at run through 1st gear, then to neutral while i pump the clutch once, then a smooth shift into 2nd. PRETTY ridiculous... Granted that was without the lower motor mount that first winter, so we'll see if things improve with the new motor mount in 09.

I love the way southerners talk about the "cold". Best I ever heard was on a biz trip, in the cab from the airport to the hotel we asked the driver what the weather was like. (It was mid January). He said real cold, mid 70s, maybe lows 80s. We chuckled, we just flew out of 10 degree weather in Boston. We asked what the water was like since we were staying at a hotel on the beach. He told us it was freexing, about 72. At that point i pretty much burst out laughing. In NE, we are lucky if we get ocean temps of 65, in August, after its been 100 all summer, and 65 is warm!

As for the gear grinding, I never noticed it. I will have to look for it next winter.

-Pete

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

I'll tell you what sucks about the MS3 in the cold, the CREAKS. These bushings do not like cold weather. It sounds like the entire car wants to fall apart sometimes.

 

[designflaw]

This car is fine in MN winters as long as you do what everybody else has suggested and get a set of winter tires. I've driven mine during the last 2 winters in the twin cities and have had no big problems. It does suck a bit in very deep snow when you're trying to get started but it helps to start in second.

I'll second what Silver Ecstasy said about the creaking - the bushings are annoying as hell in really cold weather. I had mine replaced under warranty this winter and the noise went away but I'm fully expecting it to come back. Unless it's very very cold it goes away after a bit of driving anyways.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

My only beef against getting the bushings replaced is this: It's not like they revised the bushings for cold weather. I'm sure all they did was put new ones in with new grease and call it a day. Maybe i'll get mine replaced before the warranty is up, otherwise, i'll have to play it by ear and see just how bad it bothers me. Last thing I want is them taking stuff apart on the car..especially during winter..

 

[tiagotiago]

I love the way southerners talk about the "cold". Best I ever heard was on a biz trip, in the cab from the airport to the hotel we asked the driver what the weather was like. (It was mid January). He said real cold, mid 70s, maybe lows 80s. We chuckled, we just flew out of 10 degree weather in Boston. We asked what the water was like since we were staying at a hotel on the beach. He told us it was freexing, about 72. At that point i pretty much burst out laughing. In NE, we are lucky if we get ocean temps of 65, in August, after its been 100 all summer, and 65 is warm!

-Pete

Lol...

Yeah, when ppl ask about "how's the weather" in winter I usually prefer to just say the temperature and let them decide (on the coldest days we might go to about 30ish degrees, but that's about it). In summer I do feel confident about saying "it's hot" (we've had 110+ temps for the past 10 days or so, and summer is just about to begin.....and there's no place with shade where I can park my car at work :S)

----

Back on topic, while I've never driven the car in the cold and wet, I can say the combination of proper rubber (the car's stock tires are called summer tires for a reason) and caution/skill should make the car very competent in the winter. I hope you can attend a pro driving school too. Yes they're expensive, but you really do learn a lot in them, and I'd be surprised if you didn't become a faster and safer driver in the process.

Best of luck!

 

[happy and angry]

This thread is getting ridiculous. The car is fine in the winter. Absolutely fine. I drive it in -30 degree weather and in 12 inches of snow in parking lots just fine. I have enough traction to plow snow with my front bumper if it gets high enough, even from a stop. The back end can be controlled fairly easily if it kicks out on you on ice. Understeer in limited traction situations in corners is nice and progressive. The ABS works great. The traction control keeps you gripping on ice and can be turned off if you need to pull through deep snow. I am not exaggerating when I say that this is the best car I've driven in the winter from a driving perspective.

It's not perfect. It has aggressive suspension which can be rough on broken or heaved pavement. The suspension squeaks a lot when cold, which makes the first 10 minutes of a drive a bit noisy. The transmission shifts a bit clunky when cold (so for the first mile or so). The clutch and brakes are also very stiff until it gets up to temperature. You may have to double-clutch your way through gears for the first few shifts as it warms up. You may have to take your time when you shift to let the synchros properly engage when cold. But guess what? These are problems for every car in the world when it's -20 degrees.

The car has limited clearance, so I'd only use it on pavement. On city roads and paved rural roads you should be fine, but on seriously broken pavement or ungraded gravel and ice it may not be the best option. Don't expect to be able to climb an icy hill from a stop in this car as it is not 4x4. Don't expect to be able to use this in rough rural areas.

The single biggest factors in how well a vehicle handles winter driving in snow and ice are you and your tires. If you drive like an idiot, or have tires unsuited to the conditions, no car is going to be good. With good winter tires (I'm on Blizzak WS-60s and very, very happy with them in everything from cold dry pavement to slush to deep snow to ice to wet pavement and black ice) you can handle anything within reason. If you can't control your throttle foot, if you drive too fast for conditions, if you drive aggressively or do not give yourself enough space and time to react to the unexpected, any car in the world will seem like a "bad winter car." I have two tough Canadian winters and thousands of miles under my belt in this car and not once have I come even remotely close to losing control, even when the unexpected comes up. This is mostly because of how I drive and the tires I drive on, but this car offers me all the tools I need to drive safely in the winter.

 

[shelmeister]

The single biggest factors in how well a vehicle handles winter driving in snow and ice are you and your tires.

Thanks for keeping it real, happy and angry

It looks like my question has been answered now... I am an absolute "grandma" driver in the winter. In fact, sometimes I opt to stay in than face the icy/snowy roads whenever I can. This past winter I had to drive a Lexus ES300 with summer performance tires during the dead of winter, and it was the most horrible driving experience I could imagine. Let's just say that when I was completely stopped, the car would start to slide sideways. It was frightening.

I knew that winter tires would make a difference on this car, but I also wanted to be sure that the car itself was a smart buy for MN winters. Thanks so much for everyone's advice... If all goes as planned, I will be visiting the dealer on Saturday!

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

It's you're opinion but...

This car is an exceptionally poor choice for use in MN during the winter. I got rid of mine because it was so horrible to try to drive at anything colder than 10 below zero. The brakes are way too grabby for the cold pavement, even with snow. Steering was really vague when it got below zero too. If you buy a MS3, be sure to get a winter beater with a good heater. I would not recommend this car for winter use unless you have completed some sort of track based high performance driving school.

I can't disagree with you more. With snows and disabling DSC the MS3 is great in the snow. I don't know what car isn't effected by temps close to zero since viscous fluids like oil, steering fluid and brake fluid will thicken as it get's colder and therefore make everythign from steering to brakes feel a bit numb.

In fact I'd say, as long as you don't bottom out, that the MS3 is a better choice for winter than a Honda Pilot and Pathfinder I used to own. Mainly becasue the MS3 is a more responsive and balanced car than any SUV. It also doesn't have ridiculous nanny controls or "all wheel drive" that would lull you into a false sense of security- like most muscle-bound SUVs.

And as far as beaters...I tend to think people with beaters drive like asses most of the time because they aren't concerned about damaging their car. I'm always extra careful when I drive in bad conditions becasue I don't want to end up cracking up my nice car. In a way I think having a decent car makes you a better driver if you car about keeping it nice and new.

Of course this is my opinion as well

 

[Ajburr]

shelmeister, I was in the EXACT same situation as you, from minnesota, new to the manual trans, weary about winter driving and shelling out that extra dough for winters. I essentially bought and started driving this car with pretty minimal seat time, a buddy let me drive around his civic and learn on that for awhile before I went in for the test drive. The rest I just picked up when I took delivery. Takes awhile to get used to it sure, but you just have to dive in. I'm not sure what shockdoctor is talking about, as long as you get a set of winters, you'll be absolutely fine. I never had a problem getting around in the snow in my speed3. Winter tires are key though, as the potenzas are really bad in comparison on ice and snow. It's night and day really. Other than that, just make sure to wash it regularily to keep the salt from eating away at her, and you are set.

Another thing to keep in mind, when the temps get below 30 the only real annoyances I had were the creaky suspension and the noisy windshield cowl rattle, there are fixes for both of those issues, I had morries take care of my cowl, but I never ended up having them look at the creaky suspension. Maybe I'll be annoyed enough next winter to have it looked at, but it's warm out now so it's not an issue.