MPI Tuner Anyone?

[igdrasil]

you watch your EGT and I'll watch my wideband.

If something goes awry, and i go hella lean, my WB02 will tell my instantly.

By the time your EGT reacts to the lean condition, your motor could be gone.

Hows that? At least My EGT is fast. Of course the A/F is faster, but that has nothing to do with a motor gone.

If I go lean, the A/F will show instantly, EGT will show later but HELLOOO, detonation will not be present until the leaning problem raise cylinder temps.

Remember, when you run a specific A/F, the EGT will remain in the same place...if it goes 50C more, then its running lean and I will know instantly...plus 50C more is not dangerous but you can setup an alarm there.

 

[PaulMP3]

EGT is nice, but wideband is great for fast readings of what is going on.. I like to keep an eye on my EGT.. but my eyes always look right at the WB to detect any kind of problem.. The greddy EGT is really fast, but i dont use it unless at WOT. If your just zippin around town boostin at lower rpm's and running lean, you will never know with the EGT..

 

[igdrasil]

It doesnt matter if you are running lean "zipping" around town. It will not build enough temp to do harm.

BUT!...if your are climbing up a hill in vacuum, its anyway putting some load on the engine and eventually, temps will raise. So if you have a piggyback, you must tune for "load" (maybe this can be done thru throttle position vs airflow, I dont know) on closed loop if possible, or to make the ECU switch to open loop whenever needed (maybe sending WOT to the ECU).

Anyway, the stock ECU will go into open loop when load is detected, not instantly but it will sooner or later.

Thats all I can say in my experience with my car. Even recorded with my camera.
I always monitor A/F in conjuction with EGTs.

 

[KzA]

That's possible. But like I said, i never had those issues before the grey box went in.

Dana..this is VERY possible..The entire point of VTCS was for cold start..and I think I am right saying that this is the first winter you have had with this ECU is it not?

 

[Kooldino]

Hows that? At least My EGT is fast. Of course the A/F is faster, but that has nothing to do with a motor gone.

If I go lean, the A/F will show instantly, EGT will show later but HELLOOO, detonation will not be present until the leaning problem raise cylinder temps.

Yeah, but the EGT takes time to heat up. So while knock might not occur until cylinder temps rise, knock can occur before the EGT sensor "catches up" with the new higher temp.

Remember, when you run a specific A/F, the EGT will remain in the same place...

That varies on a few things.

if it goes 50C more, then its running lean and I will know instantly...plus 50C more is not dangerous but you can setup an alarm there.

I'm talking 50F, not C. Regardless, my point is that WBO2 > EGT.

 

[Kooldino]

Hows that? At least My EGT is fast. Of course the A/F is faster, but that has nothing to do with a motor gone.

If I go lean, the A/F will show instantly, EGT will show later but HELLOOO, detonation will not be present until the leaning problem raise cylinder temps.

Remember, when you run a specific A/F, the EGT will remain in the same place...if it goes 50C more, then its running lean and I will know instantly...plus 50C more is not dangerous but you can setup an alarm there.

Oh yeah, and previously, you said nothing about your A/F, you just mentioned your EGT. Aside from that, your A/F gauge won't accurately tell you when you're running 13:1. It will only read "lean" when you go above 15 or so.

 

[Kooldino]

Thats all I can say in my experience with my car. Even recorded with my camera.
I always monitor A/F in conjuction with EGTs.

That totally goes against what you said in the last page...

wideband is just for tunning...

once you tune it...you can rely on the egt!!!!!

 

[Kooldino]

Dana..this is VERY possible..The entire point of VTCS was for cold start..and I think I am right saying that this is the first winter you have had with this ECU is it not?

That's correct, BUT it was winter the day before I put the grey box in...and I didn't have problems until i put the grey box in. Coincidence?

 

[igdrasil]

Yeah, but the EGT takes time to heat up. So while knock might not occur until cylinder temps rise, knock can occur before the EGT sensor "catches up" with the new higher temp.

And the Wideband tells when knocks happens? NO

Oh yeah, and previously, you said nothing about your A/F, you just mentioned your EGT. Aside from that, your A/F gauge won't accurately tell you when you're running 13:1. It will only read "lean" when you go above 15 or so.

I have a Greddy A/F which is very very good, accurate enough for me, you should see how it mimics the widebands.
Of course I use it...HOW you think im going to learn about my car? My friends GST runs as high as 1800F and the STI 1600F on WOT. I dont know about ours, but I just keep it between 1200F-1300F range when running near 12:1.

*I* rather have both than only the Wideband, since we dont run race gas everyday, we never know if we get a bad tank of gas, reading 12:1 of fA/F and detonating as hell!

 

[acidbug]

And the Wideband tells when knocks happens? NO


I have a Greddy A/F which is very very good, accurate enough for me, you should see how it mimics the widebands.
Of course I use it...HOW you think im going to learn about my car? My friends GST runs as high as 1800F and the STI 1600F on WOT. I dont know about ours, but I just keep it between 1200F-1300F range when running near 12:1.

*I* rather have both than only the Wideband, since we dont run race gas everyday, we never know if we get a bad tank of gas, reading 12:1 of fA/F and detonating as hell!

That's a good point about the bad gas..tuning to much can cause a motor to fail..if bad gas is entered into the combustion chamber..that's why most tuners try not to lean the mixture out to much..to leave a gap for imperfections in gas!

Chas

P.S. i didn't know a wideband won't tell you about knock..i guess the only way to find out..is to get J&S safeguard..

 

[PaulMP3]

Everyone seems to have their EGT probe in a different location making it hard for comparison...

i have mine right before the turbo in the manifold and i see readings as high as 875C....

 

[igdrasil]

I have mine after the turbo, 700C when running lean and 650 boosting ok.
My car once detonated a bit and temps went in a flash to 900C, it did not rise, it jumped.
Mine is electronic.

 

[Bigg Tim]

Recirculating that breather made zero noticable difference to me. My vaccum gauge read the same...the car didn't run any different..

That breather being disconnected does make a huge difference! I had mine disconnected and had all sorts of issues, once it was hooked back up it fixed 95% of my problems. You won't see a change in vacuum, but it will still be a leak. Your MAF has metered the air into the motor, and if air is being released from a breather instead of being recirculated back into the system, then that is considered a leak. It is just like running a BOV, metered air is being released instead of recirculated. The stock MAF can compensate a little for a leak, but it may only do so when the engine is running and not when you are cranking it over.

I have a full 3" exhaust with 1 high flow cat, the stock MAF back on, the newest MPI tuner, 1 step colder plugs and even an exhuast leak and I have NO startup issues. Maybe you have a loose connection or bad ground. That would cause some type of hesitation when cranking.

 

[Kooldino]

And the Wideband tells when knocks happens? NO

No, but my point is that if you see it go to 14:1 while you're under boost, you know to let off BEFORE knock happens. If you're looking at your EGT the whole time, I doubt you'd get the preventative info.

I have a Greddy A/F which is very very good, accurate enough for me, you should see how it mimics the widebands.

On a laptop w/ the piggyback I can see how "accurate" our stock narrow band is. It's not very accurate.

Of course I use it...HOW you think im going to learn about my car? My friends GST runs as high as 1800F and the STI 1600F on WOT. I dont know about ours, but I just keep it between 1200F-1300F range when running near 12:1.

Hey, I was just quoting you, bud. You were the one who said "once you're tuned, you only need EGT". I'm just saying that the EGT isn't the end all be all gauge.

*I* rather have both than only the Wideband, since we dont run race gas everyday, we never know if we get a bad tank of gas, reading 12:1 of fA/F and detonating as hell!

Well, I have both. But even still, you'll likely detonate before your EGT gauge reads a really high temperature to warn you. Take it from people who have both an EGT and a WBO2 (me, paul, etc). The WB is a MUCH more useful gauge for my previously and above reasons.

 

[Kooldino]

P.S. i didn't know a wideband won't tell you about knock..i guess the only way to find out..is to get J&S safeguard..

How would a WBO2 tell you about knock? It's only there to tell you your A:F ratio...knock could be caused by a number of things...

 

[Kooldino]

I have mine after the turbo, 700C when running lean and 650 boosting ok.
My car once detonated a bit and temps went in a flash to 900C, it did not rise, it jumped.
Mine is electronic.

All EGT gauges have to be electronic, AFAIK.

Not to sound harsh, but for a guy who swears by his EGT gauge, you picked the worst place to put your probe. Why did you put it there instead of somewhere before the turbo?

 

[Kooldino]

That breather being disconnected does make a huge difference! I had mine disconnected and had all sorts of issues, once it was hooked back up it fixed 95% of my problems.

But like I said, it made zero difference to me.

You won't see a change in vacuum, but it will still be a leak. Your MAF has metered the air into the motor, and if air is being released from a breather instead of being recirculated back into the system, then that is considered a leak. It is just like running a BOV, metered air is being released instead of recirculated. The stock MAF can compensate a little for a leak, but it may only do so when the engine is running and not when you are cranking it over.

Ok...but I never had an issue turning it over when I had a breather valve on there. Besides that, you can't really compare the crank case being open to another part of your intake having a leak.

I have a full 3" exhaust with 1 high flow cat, the stock MAF back on, the newest MPI tuner, 1 step colder plugs and even an exhuast leak and I have NO startup issues. Maybe you have a loose connection or bad ground. That would cause some type of hesitation when cranking.

That's possible, but i soldered everything.

 

[igdrasil]

All EGT gauges have to be electronic, AFAIK.

Not to sound harsh, but for a guy who swears by his EGT gauge, you picked the worst place to put your probe. Why did you put it there instead of somewhere before the turbo?

I meant it has a CPU and has a warning ligh plus a ground feature, It is faster than the Autometer EGT.
I would do anything to put it before the turbo, but my Spool manifold doesnt have a place to put it that could monitor all 4 runners.

 

[Bigg Tim]

Kooldino, I was referring to the battery or something the like. Just trying to help with suggestions.

How much of a difference do you see between the softwares A/F and your WB? If the software reads 12.1, what does your WB read? I'd like to know how "off" the stock one is.

 

[MPNick]

But like I said, it made zero difference to me.


Ok...but I never had an issue turning it over when I had a breather valve on there. Besides that, you can't really compare the crank case being open to another part of your intake having a leak.


That's possible, but i soldered everything.

If you take a look at the valve cover breather you will see that it gets feed right from the PCV valve. You cannot get any bigger leak then that. I do not think you understand how the breather system works. I had Shannon M install our turbo system and MPI Tuner on his car and he had all kinds of problems. From not starting right to sometimes stalling. After a few e-mails and phone calls he found that one of his small vacuum hose had come off of the barb fitting. He reinstalled it and no more problems.

This may not be the problem with your car. But you have more then a few things to check out in order to find your problem.


Thanks again


Later......Nick