mp5 suspension question

[Ilikemazda]

I have a few questions about the suspensin on an mp5. What are the options coilover wise? The only option I have seen is the tien ss or sleeve type coilovers such as the skunk2 or ground control. How long will the stock shocks last with a sleeve style coilover? I know that ths car is macpheron so camber and toe should not be thrown off to much, but at what point are they thrown off to where they can't be brought within factory specs using factory adjustment. Or at what point of droppage do you need aftermarket support to bring toe and camber within allowable levels. Is there any else I need to look out for? thanks

 

[vapors]

there is actually quite a bit of options with coilovers for the P5.

TEIN - they make the Super Street set up and now they have the Basic set up too. Both are exactly identical, the only difference is the the SS has
16-way adjustable dampening force. I've had both set ups and both of them rock. They are both good for daily driven cars. I'd suggest one of these if you were looking for daily driving and hitting up a few twisty roads here and there. The SS's run for something around $1350 while the Basics run for about $950.

JIC - These guys make 2 set ups for the P5 too. I think they are the FLT-A1 and the FLT-A2. If I remember correctly, the FLT-A2 is there flagship coilover and has way more adjustable dampening levels that the Teins. But from what I hear, It's a little over board with the "daily driven" feel. There more for like Track use only, unless you live were pot holes aren't a problem and don't mind the track feel. These will run for something around $1800. The FLT-A1 is a more like the Tein SS coilovers with more a little more adjustment with the dampening force. More of a streetable set up but not as much adjusting power like they're bigger brothers. I'm pretty sure these run for like $1300? I can't remember exactly.

Skunk2 & Ground Control- make the sleeve type set ups. From what I hear skunk2's are pretty bouncy and make a lot of noise. But you could pretty much slam your car with these. I've heard that ground control is a better set up and don't make so much noise going over bumps and stuff. The shock life on stocks will probably be around 7k miles before they start to die and probably around 8.5-9k miles, they'll be completely dead. and of course that's depending on your driving habbits and the condition's of the roads you drive on.

As far as alignment, the P5's aren't hard to align. You won't need a camber kit. They come from the factory with a wide range of adjuting specifications and come with slight negative camber out of the box. I've managed to install my teins pretty much within factory specs with out an alignment rack. The only thing that was off was the toe. but then again, I didn't touch the tie rod ends so of course it will be off. But the bottom line is that it's really easy for a reputable shop to get it withing specs and you won't have to buy all other components to make it work.

My personal opinion, get the Tein Basics if you don't plan on autocrossing or anything. They offer way better performance over sleeve type set ups and with the amount you'd spend on brand new struts and the sleeve coilovers, you'd probably spend something near the cost for Basics. Probably another 2-3 hundred more and you could buy the Teins. Which is well worth the extra cash. Performance and Quality is Teins middle name.

And if you were planning on daily driving and hitting up the tracks or twisty roads on a regular basis, Tein SS or JIC FLT-A1 is the way to go. And of course if your into the full race idea, The JIC FLT-A2 will be your best friend.

hope this helps.

 

[khaosman]

Your other options are KSport or D2 coilovers... check the AV forum, I believe there is someone selling KSport coilovers CHEAP this month. Like $775 shipped. Great price.

I have the FLT-A1s and they are stiff as hell My car drives like it is on rails though.

 

[Ilikemazda]

Thanks for all the great info. I think I may just skip getting the sleeves and get true coilovers. I like how the D2s and the K-Sports have ride height adjustabilty on the shock body, which tien dosen't seem to have. But is the rebound adjustment on either just a spinning action or are they actually 32 seperate detents for each level of adjustment? If it is a spinning action why did they choose 32 and not say 34 or something else? Do any of the coilovers have actually detents in the adjustment besides say konis ( if they are applicasble on a protege).
Also I know that the D2s are available with different spring ratings. But are these all placed with the same shock? If so then the shock will only be suited to one spring rating? Or is this compensated by the adjustment range of the shock for example you turn the firmness way up for the higher spring levels. Or am I completely off here?
Also you said that the skunk2s are very bouncey. Is this on stock shocks? The long shock life of 7k seems pretty nice as well. Once again thanks for the input.

 

[vapors]

I hate to be rude, but I think your completely off. Actually Tein does have ride height adjustablitlity on the shock bodies. that's what TRUE COILOVERS are. pretty much all "true coilover" set ups have the strut body threaded for a seat perch and locker. And only the TEIN Basics don't come with adjustable dampening force (bound & rebound). But if your not really into autocrossing or hitting up some kind of twisty road on a regular basis, your probably better off just getting the Basic set up instead of going out and spending way more than you should for something you won't even be putting to use. Of course it's cool to be able to adjust the ride height and dampening levels to accomidate for your driving situations at the Track. But if you don't really know how to put it to use, it's pretty much USELESS and you won't even feel the difference.

Since Koni are like only 5 way adjustable, it's easy to mark the settings on the strut. But say the TEIN SS's are 16 way adjustable, how could you possibly mark off 16 settings on a adjustment knob so small? so of course it's all spinning action. They probably chose a specific max. number of settings to accomidate for a range that you could possibly notice a difference. say they put 100 different settings. what would the difference be between 1 and 2 or 69 and 70? Only a very very slight difference in force that you probably wouldn't even notice. but say you put 3 and label it soft, medium and hard. When you set it to your desired range, you would most likely feel the difference between the settings.


Different spring rates accomidate for different driving habbits/situations. a stiffer spring rate of course is meant for track purposes because it'll enable the car to turn on a dime without "rolling over" to one side of the car. A softer spring rate is meant more for driving comfort and not FEEL.

the 7k mile life of shocks with skunk2's are for stockers. 7k miles isn't that long. you'd probably hit it within a max of a half a year, if not less. That is considering you do quite a bit of driving on a daily basis.

So the next thing I recommend is figure out what you want to do with you P5 and take it from there. Get what accomidates your driving habbits/style and feel. And to be honest, don't buy into the "I need the biggest thing on the market" vibe. It'll only set you back more money than you'd like to be and you'd have something you have little to no use for, and not to mention that you could spend the extra cash on other mods.

 

[65racecoupe]

Your other options are KSport or D2 coilovers... check the AV forum, I believe there is someone selling KSport coilovers CHEAP this month. Like $775 shipped. Great price.

I have the FLT-A1s and they are stiff as hell My car drives like it is on rails though.

I like my K Sports. That is a killer deal. (drinks)

 

[Brian MP5T]

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63315

TEIN SS Rock!

 

[Ilikemazda]

Thanks for the great replies. Vapor I'm not sure I made myself understandable. What I was saying was that the tiens height adjustment is the adjustable spring perches and not the an independent height ajustment on the shock body itself. I know that the basics are this way but I'm not sure about the ss. All the pcitures of the ss I have seen do not have an independent height adjustment. Also by the detent comment, I meant that it woulkd kind of click at each setting, not nessesarily be marked off on the adjust ment knob. I do understand though what you mean by how they choose the amount of settings.

 

[khaosman]

Look at that picture of the SS that Brain posted, they have independent height adjustment.
Here is another picture, but of my coilovers.

See how the smaller set of coilovers has no threaded rod showing? Those are set lower. The other set has more threaded rod showing, and is higher. You move the threaded rod in accordance with the amount of drop or raise you want.

Sorry if you knew this and I misunderstood your post...

On my JICs, it is kind of tough to differentiate the "clicks" when adjusting the dampening. I believe there are 8 settings on each coilover.

 

[Ilikemazda]

I guess since that set of tien ss in the picture is set to its lowest setting on all four, it looks kinda of like there is no seperate height adjustment, but now I know that they do, sorry about that.

It is true that D2 uses only shock for all there different springs available?

Since this will be my daily driver and only autocrossed say a few times a year, I was heading more towards the basics. But I test drove a civic si with basics and the ride wasn't much firmer than stock. This makes me want to get something dampening adjustable to make up for the softness but I know that this will mainly only affect the dampening and not body roll. Hmm not sure what to do here.

 

[Ilikemazda]

Are tha basics available with front or rear camber plates?

 

[pluto316]

Ground Control coil-overs + JDM Mazdaspeed Adjustable Dampers = GRIP.

 

[Brian MP5T]

The FLTA2 JIC Have Both Perch Height and Spring Height ( and are like $500.00 More ), The Tein-SS Do Not. The Double adjustment just means that you can lower your car independant of the shock, IMO just one more nut to come loose. I have 2" of Drop on the SS for 2.5 Years, never a problem. I love them, some say they are entry level, and they are, but the difernece between OEM and so called "Entery Level" is Magic ( JIC PUN )

 

[Ilikemazda]

So now the tein ss dosen't have seperate height adjustment? I'm confused.

If I were to go with a spring and shock combo I would have to buy the camber plates seperate?

And does tein offer front and rear camber plates.

 

[vapors]

ya, that's got me confused too? how do you control spring height? I thought by adjusting the seating perch, you adjust the spring height and that's how you control the ride height?

To clarify things, all coilovers have seperate height adjustment, meaning you can raise and lower each corner to the ride height you want...and yes even the Tein SS's. The Basics are the exact identical with the exception of the dampening force being adjustable. I don't recall Tein making any camber plates because you don't need them, Unless your trying to get your car OUT of specifications with more or less camber for track purposes. Camber kits/plates are not required for the P5 in order for it to be aligned within mazda manufacturer specifications. I've slammed my car all the way with BOTH the Tein SS's and Basics and I was able to get it aligned no problem without a camber kit. If I had a camera or a scanner, I'd be more than happy to show you the print outs.

As a matter in fact, lowering a P5 doesn't throw off the alignment drastically. It may change the camber, caster and toe a few tenth's if not hundredths of a degree but it's still pretty much within Mazda Specs. If you didn't already know, P5's come stock with negative camber...That's why they handle fairly well stock and if you look at your tires carefully, you'll notice the inside of the tire is worn the most. So even if you go with a spring/strut combo, camber plates/kits will not be required.

 

[Brian MP5T]

So now the tein ss dosen't have seperate height adjustment? I'm confused.

If I were to go with a spring and shock combo I would have to buy the camber plates seperate?

And does tein offer front and rear camber plates.

Ya Don't need to mess with Camber on this car...

If you still want to, you can rough adjust even the stock suspension camber just by rotating the strut 90 de in whichever direction you want. Undo the 4 bolts on the top of the tower and with the car jacked up, push down and rotate...

 

[Ilikemazda]

Hmm, if this camber does not need adjustment, then this means two things.

one - yeah I get to save money

two - Why are there adjustable camber plates on top of the ksports and d2s? Also they sell rear upper camber plates for about 130. If they are not needed why would they sell them.


And as for the teins, i now beleve that they are not height adjustable seperate from the spring perches meaning that - there are only two twisters not three - basically the height can not be adjusted on the shock body without the shock's travel being affected- the shock body and lower bracket are not seperate and the shock body can not be moved inside of the lower bracket cylinder. Please someone prove me wrong with evidence.

 

[vapors]

welp, like I mentioned earlier, The REASONS why I could see you needing camber plates is for race purposes only.

Camber plates usually have settings you could adjust it to so that you don't have to always put your car on an alignment machine to figure out where your camber is at. If you set it to -2 on the plate, it should read the same on the alignment machine. THUS you can always set your car back to "stock" settings once your finished at the track and you now need to drive it home.

KSport and D2 probably make them because it's an opportunity to make money or they're meant to be used more on the track. TEIN and JIC don't have them because the manufacturers know it's unnecssary with they're set up because they're aimed more towards the street and not the track so therefore they're probably expecting that you would go get an alignment. (Hence the name: TEIN SUPER STREET) But if they were to make it available to use with they're set up, and there's people like you who have no idea that it isn't required, they'll just suck more money out of you for something you didn't need.

Here's some advice. Figure out what exactly you want to do with your car. FULL RACE - JIC FLT-A2. -OR- KSport/D2 (just because they have camber plates )
DAILY DRIVEN/WEEKEND WARRIOR - Tein SS's or the JIC FLT-A1
DAILY DRIVEN/OCCASIONAL TWISTIES - Tein Basics
SLAMMED TO THE GROUND - Skunk2's

As far as height adjustablity, you have me stumped. Each coilover has it's own spring seat and locking perch. What else would you need other than the spring seat and locking perch? you said that there is only 2 and not 3. What would the other one be for? Usually manufacturers of coilovers or even aftermarket shocks, design they're products to be used with lowering springs or coilovers. So the shock travel is usually shorter but a lot stiffer. And that's why stock shocks usually crap out within 7k miles. With Tein Coilovers, the shock itself is threaded for the locking perch and spring seat. So I don't know what you mean by "the shock body cannot be moved inside of the lower bracket cylinder".

 

[Brian MP5T]

Why are there adjustable camber plates on top of the ksports and d2s? Also they sell rear upper camber plates for about 130. If they are not needed why would they sell them.

Because Auto-X people like to get the most of their suspension at the cost of things like tire wear... If you aren't going to tune the suspension for a Race, they only look pretty...

The height can not be adjusted on the shock body without the shock's travel being affected- the shock body and lower bracket are not seperate and the shock body can not be moved inside of the lower bracket cylinder. Please someone prove me wrong with evidence.

No Proving here, you are correct as I stated in my other post you loose shock travel, but it matters not alot because when you lower your car, you also loose an equal ammount of "Car Travel"

 

[Ilikemazda]

Here is an example of the three spinners on the tein flex coilover which isn't available for the protege.

as you can see the shock has another spinner on the bottom independent of the two used on the bottom of the spring perch. This independent one lets you adjust the height of the shock with respect to the bracket piece without changing any of the spring preload or shock travel.

Brian MP5T - I am not sure what you meant by the car loses an equal amount of travel? Maybe the car has less distance towards completely bottoming out?

Also does any 99+ protege coilover fit the mp5? Because if so I noticed to other manuafactures - B&G and NEX that produce coilovers, but I didn't know if they would fit and what kind of experience people had with them.