Mazdaspeed3 Dyno! 215whp 245wtq
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Rotary_Powered
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- Mazda RX7 '87' & Hyundai Tiburon GT '05'
I just hope it's that case, and the fan should be blowing from the top, because other wise I'm a bit dissapointed.seanw said:
Edit: So in reality what's the ideal dyno run for this car? closed hood? open? front fan? top fan? Intercooling can make a difference, I mean look at the MSP which get's 10whp from a FMIC... IDK, the power the car has doesn't bother me 215whp is still good, but if that's all it had and Mazda said 264...
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Seanw makes a great point about the TMIC and the airflow of the fan. I wouldn't trust any numbers that did not standardize the testing procedure. If you offer cooling air in a path perpendicular to the cooling apparatus you are, in effect, NOT offering cooling air at all. This engine is known to pull timing if charge temperature becomes high. You are, in essence, setting this engine up for disappointing results.
Now place a fan directly over top of the TMIC so that cool air can be directed into the path of the cooling apparatus and then we are talking a different situation. As mentioned, the TMIC, turbo-assisted vehicle has the most to lose by testing this way, the naturally-aspirated the least.
Given the limitations of conventional dyno testing, a more true test of engine performance might include a dyno test of a vehicle equipped with a FMIC MZR rather than the standard TMIC version so that cooling fans could be employed as they usually are without any modifications to the setup. Perhaps we could convince P5Freek to take his MS6 to the dyno to check it out, although the drivetrain loss would be greater since the MS6 is AWD rather than FWD as the MS3.
As a point of interest, I recall reading an article (I can't remember what online source it came from, but I will look it up and post the link when I find it) that new cars have sensors to tell when the car is actually moving forward with respect to the ground so that while the wheels may be turning on the dyno, the ECU recognizes that the car is NOT actually moving anywhere in space and thus does NOT offer up the maximum performance since the cooling fans CANNOT offer the same cooling effect as the natural airflow around the car when it is moving at speed. In the article cited, the authors test a BMW M5 on a dyno using several airflow configurations; no fan, a 24" shop-sized fan, a 48" industrial-sized fan, and another even larger super fan (the sizes are not exact, but rather relative from what I call of the article). They did several dyno runs with each size allowing the car to cool completely between runs so that engine starting temp did not play a role in the tests.
They found that no matter what they did, the M5 offered up only a finite number of HP on the dyno based on what the cooling configuration was. The stronger the cooling fan, and thus airflow presented to the engine via the front of the car, the more HP they were able to achieve. They were unable to get anywhere close to the claimed 505HP (after correction for drivetrain loss) with the small fan. As the size of the fan increased so too did the resultant HP at the dyno. This occured consistently as they changed the size of the fan. However, even with the largest fan they were not able to achieve the fabled 505HP.
In the end, their conclusion was that since the car was not actually moving at speed where the optimal cooling airflow could be achieved, the ECU was retarding the timing based on the amount of cooling air directed over the front of the car. They felt that with modern technology, tuners might have to develop ways of circumventing the ECU even in dyno testing so that the maximum potential of each engine could be achieved.
Just my humble $0.018 CAN...LOL
R
Now place a fan directly over top of the TMIC so that cool air can be directed into the path of the cooling apparatus and then we are talking a different situation. As mentioned, the TMIC, turbo-assisted vehicle has the most to lose by testing this way, the naturally-aspirated the least.
Given the limitations of conventional dyno testing, a more true test of engine performance might include a dyno test of a vehicle equipped with a FMIC MZR rather than the standard TMIC version so that cooling fans could be employed as they usually are without any modifications to the setup. Perhaps we could convince P5Freek to take his MS6 to the dyno to check it out, although the drivetrain loss would be greater since the MS6 is AWD rather than FWD as the MS3.
As a point of interest, I recall reading an article (I can't remember what online source it came from, but I will look it up and post the link when I find it) that new cars have sensors to tell when the car is actually moving forward with respect to the ground so that while the wheels may be turning on the dyno, the ECU recognizes that the car is NOT actually moving anywhere in space and thus does NOT offer up the maximum performance since the cooling fans CANNOT offer the same cooling effect as the natural airflow around the car when it is moving at speed. In the article cited, the authors test a BMW M5 on a dyno using several airflow configurations; no fan, a 24" shop-sized fan, a 48" industrial-sized fan, and another even larger super fan (the sizes are not exact, but rather relative from what I call of the article). They did several dyno runs with each size allowing the car to cool completely between runs so that engine starting temp did not play a role in the tests.
They found that no matter what they did, the M5 offered up only a finite number of HP on the dyno based on what the cooling configuration was. The stronger the cooling fan, and thus airflow presented to the engine via the front of the car, the more HP they were able to achieve. They were unable to get anywhere close to the claimed 505HP (after correction for drivetrain loss) with the small fan. As the size of the fan increased so too did the resultant HP at the dyno. This occured consistently as they changed the size of the fan. However, even with the largest fan they were not able to achieve the fabled 505HP.
In the end, their conclusion was that since the car was not actually moving at speed where the optimal cooling airflow could be achieved, the ECU was retarding the timing based on the amount of cooling air directed over the front of the car. They felt that with modern technology, tuners might have to develop ways of circumventing the ECU even in dyno testing so that the maximum potential of each engine could be achieved.
Just my humble $0.018 CAN...LOL
R
zoomzoom02
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- Protege ES
It has prodigious torque in the midrange, but the engine feels anemic below 3000 rpm or above 5500. Honda's normally aspirated Si makes at least 85% of its maximum torque from 2000 to its redline. That means that if you floor the Honda's loud pedal anywhere between two and eight grand, you'll have at your disposal at least 85% of the maximum quoted torque. VW's turbo GTI will hand over at least 70% of its peak number at any time from two grand to its own redline. The Mazda is far behind the others at 20%
They're saying that only 50% of the ms3 power will be from 2k to redline...doesn't make much sense, so the other 50% is from idle to 2k? Doesn't look like it...
They're saying that only 50% of the ms3 power will be from 2k to redline...doesn't make much sense, so the other 50% is from idle to 2k? Doesn't look like it...
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Rotary_Powered
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- Mazda RX7 '87' & Hyundai Tiburon GT '05'
In all fairness someone needs to strap an N-tercooler or CRYO2 system to the car and see what happends. If the power goes up to near the Mazda claim then it's simply the intercooler vs. fan placement. If not then 
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- 2001 Pro 2.0 LX
wow, is the ms3 engine held in there with popsicle sticks and half schewed sticks of gum?
also, even if they did dyno it wrong, what matters is the numbers it puts down on the tarmac
also, even if they did dyno it wrong, what matters is the numbers it puts down on the tarmac
Out of those 3, I'd take the Si! I've heard that engine sream before and what a blast! My 2nd choice would be the GTI (more confy and GREAT interior), just get the chip and that's another 40-50 hp for little money. Sorry to say, but the MS3 doesn't have it. I saw one the other day and while it looks alright I really don't like the interior, "looks" quite cheap, but that's just an opinion. Maybe next year when the MS3 will be at 0% finanicing or lease (like the MSP when I bought it), I might think about... But the sound of the Si still rings in my ear!!
The Si's are nice but for the price and for insurance the speed3 IMO kicks it.......And I left one practically standing still on the freeway.... That was a great purchase prize for me, to hell with 0% 
.............And whats up with the the sudden down spike before the veetak kicked in? its like the driver had to take the time to hit a switch and turn it on then keep dynoing all at once
I feel bad for that speed3, dragging out the shifts like......
.............And whats up with the the sudden down spike before the veetak kicked in? its like the driver had to take the time to hit a switch and turn it on then keep dynoing all at once I feel bad for that speed3, dragging out the shifts like......
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elderlycoffee
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- 2007 Sunlight Silver mazdaspeed 3
Man the MS3 sounds like a freakin jet about to take off...
I'm so glad I have one :-D
I'm so glad I have one :-D
