Making the perfect STX Mazdaspeed... think tank starts here.

[CRDMS1]

I can attest to the fact that stiffer rear springs help the rear step out significantly on throttle lift and breaking. Night and day difference.

Peace...(hippy)

 

[low_psi]

yes, brake-induced oversteer is a wonderful thing

i just saw that you can't use a FMIC in ST-classes.

Distant- Houston IS overloaded with WRX's... and those Miata cars...

 

[scapamouche]

I use rear toe out to get the lift throttle oversteer I like. I've described my method before, but it's a really CHEAP way of getting a lot of the benefits of the mods above, without the cost.

By setting the toe back to zero at the end of the day, I also avoid the bad tire wear issues from having that toe out. You WILL need more alignments, but I was getting them every couple months anyway, so no real change there...

I am still undecided about the future of my MSP: stay in DS with the r-tires, or go to STX and have fun with mods... decisions, decisions...

 

[Orthonormal]

Who are AWR, and do they have a web page? If not, how can I contact them?

 

[CRDMS1]

www.awrracing.com

 

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

Yeah the mazdaspeed is a great D stock car, but it has limitations that make it not as fun on the street as some other cars. Plus you gotta beat a Type R whenever you can.

So here's the idea. What would it take to make the perfect STX legal autocross mazdaspeed? Parts have to actually exist and links to those parts would be great.

The STX national champion car last year was a 220HP+ Integra Type R. To beat it the mazdaspeed has to up the ante within the STX rules. A short list of rules can be found at www.moutons.org if you aren't familiar.

I could be wrong but I think we're aiming at 200HP with an emphasis on torque and engine response to beat the Type R where it is the weakest... low end grunt. We also need to lose at least 200 lbs from the car. Things like CF hood are legal... so lets see what we can save.

So lets see what we can come up with... money is not an object... but the rules are.

Koni 2817's are allowed which is what we use on our Speedvision world challenge Proteges. These are Mono-Tube High Sensitive shocks that will work on the smallest bumps on the road, Driving Braking & Accelerating. This shock works right away as opposed to other shocks that have to compress and 1" before it acutally dampens. Budget is what people have troubles with. To do a 2817 you are look at about $4660.00 w/ hypercoil springs. After you try them out on the car and you want them revalved we will be able to revalve 1 time for free. If you have any questions feel free to call or E-mail us.
-Jeff

 

[scapamouche]

It takes a pretty damn serious individual to throw down that kind of cash for STX... I know I'm not there... and I don't think it's needed...

I would expect there is a Koni SA setup out there with ground control springs that will do very nicely for under $1000...

 

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

It takes a pretty damn serious individual to throw down that kind of cash for STX... I know I'm not there... and I don't think it's needed...

I would expect there is a Koni SA setup out there with ground control springs that will do very nicely for under $1000...

Koni SA adjustable Strut inserts could not be used with the desired spring rates over 400 lbs +++. You have to remember that these shocks are made for "street use" I'm sure they will work but you will be maxing out your settings eventually and will rebuildable say... twice maybe even three times a year? Which $135.00/strut to be rebuilt? Possibly revalved? The minimum we would recommend to do a setup would be a Koni Wet Kit SA setup. It would be $400/strut which would include custom valving to what specs you would want or what we would recommend. Then it would be another $65.00/coil-over kit and another $65.00 for Custom 2 1/2" ID spring. So as a bare minimum it would be atleast $2200 when all said and done to do it the right way. Then again you would only be a Single adjustable only. Any true autocrosser will tell you that.

 

[Orthonormal]

I'm not that familiar with strut prices, but struts do seem to generally cost more than the equivalent shocks.

You may not need to go all the way to the Koni 28xx series, but for a serious ST/SP suspension setup you're going to want double adjustability so you can change the compression rate when you change spring rates, and you're going to want a durable shock. Candidates include the Koni 30xx series, Penske DA, JRZ, Moton, and Advance Design. The latter are the cheapest way to get a "high-end" monotube double adjustable shock, but you'll probably be entirely on your own for figuring out the proper settings and adjustment ranges. Each of the others, depending on where you live, may have a local expert who can help you figure out where you need to go next, and maybe even show up at events to watch, ride, or even drive your car to see what it's really doing. That kind of help is crucial for stock class shock tuning, because it's such a strange art to tune a car's behavior without being allowed to touch the springs. It may be less so in ST/SP, since suspension tuning in those classes is closer to the theoretical ideal: use the springs to adjust handling response/balance, and just use the shocks to keep the springs from oscillating, and a little bit of fine tuning.

I wonder if the Bilstein inserts in the ADR strut kits can be converted to adjustable. It's probably around $150/shock to do the conversion, but Bilsteins are rebuildable and revalvable, and the quality is there...just another option to consider.

 

[Jeff@Tri-Point]

I'm not that familiar with strut prices, but struts do seem to generally cost more than the equivalent shocks.

You may not need to go all the way to the Koni 28xx series, but for a serious ST/SP suspension setup you're going to want double adjustability so you can change the compression rate when you change spring rates, and you're going to want a durable shock. Candidates include the Koni 30xx series, Penske DA, JRZ, Moton, and Advance Design. The latter are the cheapest way to get a "high-end" monotube double adjustable shock, but you'll probably be entirely on your own for figuring out the proper settings and adjustment ranges. Each of the others, depending on where you live, may have a local expert who can help you figure out where you need to go next, and maybe even show up at events to watch, ride, or even drive your car to see what it's really doing. That kind of help is crucial for stock class shock tuning, because it's such a strange art to tune a car's behavior without being allowed to touch the springs. It may be less so in ST/SP, since suspension tuning in those classes is closer to the theoretical ideal: use the springs to adjust handling response/balance, and just use the shocks to keep the springs from oscillating, and a little bit of fine tuning.

I wonder if the Bilstein inserts in the ADR strut kits can be converted to adjustable. It's probably around $150/shock to do the conversion, but Bilsteins are rebuildable and revalvable, and the quality is there...just another option to consider.

Keep in mind that bilsteins will adjust compression and rebound at the same time whenever you turn that knob. As far as Konis 30 Series go there is no such thing for a Strut. Those would be perfect for your miata. We have the "Peter Raymond" package availabe... but once again they are not for struts. Thanks.
Jeff.

 

[Orthonormal]

The shops I know of that did conversions to make Bilsteins adjustable (Shocktek, Morriss), made them adjustable for rebound only. There are a couple of people who figured out on their own how to add remote reservoirs to allow compression adjustment.

I don't even know if it can be done on strut inserts, since there is the question of how to bring the adjuster outside the strut housing. And then you would have to find a company that could do the conversion, as Shocktek and Morriss are both defunct. Maybe Bilstein could do it if you asked really nicely.

 

[70]

Nice thread...

 

[Micaspeed!]

Kw Suspension

Anyone looking for the best coilover setup under $1500.00, check out what we are running on our STX MSP. The KW coilovers are the best we could find in our budget, German made, stainless steel construction, the best valving technology around, we have the Variant 2 kit, awesome. Just finished our three event winter series, and took 4th overr all (beat by a viper and 2 z06 vettes), First in STX. We are dialing in the car. It has our camber plates, three piece bar, and bar bushing relocating brackets. For pics and more info www.delsingmotorsport.com

Godspeed!
Dave

 

[70]

Cool deal! Nice pictures of the parts too!

 

[Logan]

Pics of the bar please!

 

[mazdaowner123]

Can we not use the AWR motor mounts because they aren't made by mazdaspeed? Does mazdaspeed make some motor mounts? This is a great thread.

~brian

 

[FrozenMazda]

(bump)
This thread's been dead for a while. How's everybody's setups coming along? Dave, I read through you that KW is making a new set of coilovers specific for the Mazdaspeed Protege.

I'm trying a simple setup similar to what you had in the beginning, Dave. Adjust the upper mounts, crash bolts (need to talk to you about ordering a set of those). I still need to put your Klunk fix on (wanting to get some new bushings first and not use the current ones I have on the swaybar).

Also, anybody worked with the new Falken Azenis 615's? I'm looking at the 215/40 17's since I got another set of stock rims. Wondering if there's any input on them?

-Roach

 

[dmitrik4]

back from the dead is right!

i *highly* recommend the H&R camber bolts. the model for us is TC112.

there has been a lot of discussion of the ST tire situation on sccaforums. don't forget about the new hankooks (225/45/16!), the falken 451s (when shaved, and lots of good sizes), and the toyo T1-R ($$$$, but lots of great sizes coming). don't discount the "old" azenis either.

 

[FrozenMazda]

back from the dead is right!

i *highly* recommend the H&R camber bolts. the model for us is TC112.

there has been a lot of discussion of the ST tire situation on sccaforums. don't forget about the new hankooks (225/45/16!), the falken 451s (when shaved, and lots of good sizes), and the toyo T1-R ($$$$, but lots of great sizes coming). don't discount the "old" azenis either.

I'm trying to find something in the 17" size right now. I bought Mark94's rims off of him and plan on using either that set or my original ones as AutoX only.

Now, if I get better than I currently am this year, I'll probably buy some 16's or 15's in the winter (most likely Volk TE-37's). Biggest thing is that this is my daily driver when I'm not working (got a company vehicle for that).

Back to the AutoX setups, has anybody used/had success with the H&R wheel spacers??? I'm looking to go with the 5mm since I don't want to roll the fender wells or do anything else too serious.

 

[Mallard]

Why does there have to be such a lack of adjustable shocks for the MSP!? I've been looking for something for quite a while and can't seem to find anything priced decently. (The 2817 Koni's)

Is there anything else out there? Does anyone have info on making the Bilstein inserts adjustable?