loads of camdriven fuel pump info!

[mrlilguy157]

I'm not worthy ... I'm not worthy ... I'm not worthy ...

You guys are F-in amazing. Here I was all set of reaching 300 whp and staying there, thinking that would be fast enough. Now I am willing to dip into my house-downpayment-fund to buy one of these.

But, on another note, a buddy of mine has the Solstice GTP and is into modding it as much as any of you. Luckily, GM cars have a great aftermarket, and the Solstice and Sky will have the aftermarket between GM performance parts and others. I have a feeling that if they experience the same problems, he will run into them sooner rather than later. Ill have to ask him what his community has in terms of fuel issues/solutions and I will get back to all of you.

hahaahhaahahahaa...

ill take all of the credit for this information

remember though, with the new pump, the ECU tune does need to be modified for the different mathematical algorithims involved in calculating fueling.

 

[Red MS3 n NyC]

Good news indeed. Nothing a little R&D won't solve.

Anyone find out how to de-pressurize the system yet?? Online FSM?

-Brian

 

[mrlilguy157]

i'm researching that right this second....

i did find this:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3359878

 

[mrlilguy157]

more info: directly from hitachi

http://www.hitachi.com/ICSFiles/afieldfile/2004/11/26/r2004_04_103_1.pdf


this has to be the fuel pump we use, the same one from the GM world, the same one from the VW/Audi world.

we use Hitachi ECU units for sure. CP-E can confirm that.

 

[Red MS3 n NyC]

They say its a Hitachi so maybe it will work?

Maybe we should all chip in and see what yourself or Haltech can come up with (thumb) LoL

If it could benefit the whole community...I say it's worth it.

-B

 

[mrlilguy157]

They say its a Hitachi so maybe it will work?

Maybe we should all chip in and see what yourself or Haltech can come up with (thumb) LoL

If it could benefit the whole community...I say it's worth it.

-B

CPE knows our ECU's are hitachi - hitachi invented the gasoline direct injection system, they know the ECU parameters. it would only make sense for them to use their own pump with their own ECU.

I'm calling Hitachi tomorrow to ask them to be 100% sure that both Mazda DISI and Volkswagen FSI are using this pump. If so, the Mazda scene is merging with the VW/Audi tuners (AutoTech and APR) to pick up the built up fuel pump from APR or AutoTech when they unviel theirs, but it looks like they backed down and support APR's research, from the threads that i've read. I already contacted APR as well and asked them for more info, as well as how to bleed the system of pressure for removal. APR's pumps are in stock, in final testing, and ship out by the 24th, but I couldn't find them on the website, thats why I emailed them and asked them to call me tomorrow.

Next is for Cobb and CP-E to call up APR and figure out the fueling ECU parameters for the upgraded pump, so they can create a map for us. APR tells us you cant run the pump without reconfiguring the ECU and the fueling algorithims.

Maybe I'll take the hit in the wallet and order a pump, and put it in with my wideband A/F gauge and see what I'm reading.

 

[Red MS3 n NyC]

Let us know what you find out via e-mail, etc. Hopefully they're not pricks and deny you any valuable info.

Kudos to you guys and good luck. This is how it all starts.

-B

 

[chriscecc914]

i wrote to APR:

Would your FSI cam driven fuel pumps work on the Mazdaspeed 6? We need a fuel solution that deals with FSI and we are all stuck as far as HP goes. Thanks!
-Chris

Here's the answer I got:

Not at all, two totally different internals and setup and flow levels.
Regards,



-Chris Gigon

 

[mrlilguy157]

i wrote to APR:

Would your FSI cam driven fuel pumps work on the Mazdaspeed 6? We need a fuel solution that deals with FSI and we are all stuck as far as HP goes. Thanks!
-Chris

Here's the answer I got:

Not at all, two totally different internals and setup and flow levels.
Regards,



-Chris Gigon

I"m glad you got an answer, but I don't necessarily think thats the end of it, considering APR knows nothing about Mazdas, but perhaps they're right.

A buddy of mine is looking up his parts database at WorldPac to tell me if the stock FSI pump and the stock DISI pump are the same.

 

[mrlilguy157]

BLEEDING THE FUEL LINE OF PRESSSURE:

There has been 2 methods listed --

1) the proper one in the bently - Details were not posted so you will need one. (mazda guys - the bently is the service manual for vw vehicles. its got everything you need to know about vw's for a body style.


2) or starting the car and unplugging the fuel pump near the tank and allowing it to stall.

 

[Red MS3 n NyC]

Yea I remember doing something like this before to relieve the pressure.

Instead I just pulled the fuel pump fuse and let it stall. I guess no one is sure if it would do the same thing? That's how I did it on my b13 se-r. Of course, this is much different.

-B

 

[Haltech]

I notified CP-E this morning in regards to this thread. The Standback will be able to control this pump... and from the looks of things, is the only one that can.

Hmm, i dont like the idea of having to pull a fuse or unplug a pump to stall the car. That also doesnt relieve pressure either guys even if the fuel is out of the line.

There has to be a procedure somewhere that shows how to replace the fuel filter.. This is going to say how to relieve the fuel pressure. I think relieving it at the rear of the car, instead of the front, is the sensable route.

 

[www.cp-e.com]

I notified CP-E this morning in regards to this thread. The Standback will be able to control this pump... and from the looks of things, is the only one that can.

Hmm, i dont like the idea of having to pull a fuse or unplug a pump to stall the car. That also doesnt relieve pressure either guys even if the fuel is out of the line.

There has to be a procedure somewhere that shows how to replace the fuel filter.. This is going to say how to relieve the fuel pressure. I think relieving it at the rear of the car, instead of the front, is the sensable route.

Thanks again for pointing us to this thread Kevin! (drinks)

To mrlilguy157, this is a HUGE find, and I give you a lot of credit for finding this info! Thanks a lot for sharing it with the community too.

We've known ('suspected' is probably a better word) that the high pressure pump was the weak link in this fuel system, and we've been working towards finding a solution for several months now. In fact, I think we were the first ones to express to the community that the high pressure pump wouldn't clear much over 300whp:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3053532&postcount=14

We knew the high pressure pump control would be an issue down the line, which is why we opted to include the high pressure pump control with our Standback. As far as we know, our controller is the only unit that has this capability. So if scaling the output of a larger displacement pump is a requirement, we're confident that the Standback can do it.

As far as a solution for the high pressure pump, we don't have one yet. We have several ideas that we're looking into, but its all vaporware at the moment. When we have some more information for you guys I'll be sure to post it up!


Jordan

 

[pHeeL tHiZ ViBe]

yay! lol

 

[Rainman]

Subbing for learning.

R

 

[mrlilguy157]

Thanks again for pointing us to this thread Kevin! (drinks)

To mrlilguy157, this is a HUGE find, and I give you a lot of credit for finding this info! Thanks a lot for sharing it with the community too.

We've known ('suspected' is probably a better word) that the high pressure pump was the weak link in this fuel system, and we've been working towards finding a solution for several months now. In fact, I think we were the first ones to express to the community that the high pressure pump wouldn't clear much over 300whp:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3053532&postcount=14

We knew the high pressure pump control would be an issue down the line, which is why we opted to include the high pressure pump control with our Standback. As far as we know, our controller is the only unit that has this capability. So if scaling the output of a larger displacement pump is a requirement, we're confident that the Standback can do it.

As far as a solution for the high pressure pump, we don't have one yet. We have several ideas that we're looking into, but its all vaporware at the moment. When we have some more information for you guys I'll be sure to post it up!


Jordan

Jordan, thanks and no problem. I came from the VW/Audi community so I know where to look for info. Glad I could help.

Perhaps you could call APR and see whats up with the programming of the upgraded pump?

I wasn't able to find Hitachi, so that was a dead end.... and my buddy at WorldPac doesn't have access to all the new technical info yet, so that was another dead end to see if the APR upgraded pump was the same original unit that came with our cars. They said it wasn't, but frankly I dont believe them, just because they don't know anything about Mazdas???

I'm continuing to digg, and I'm glad I could help. You and Josh can drop my R&D check in the mail! (first)

 

[www.cp-e.com]

I'm continuing to digg, and I'm glad I could help. You and Josh can drop my R&D check in the mail! (first)

You can count on it (lol2)

Jordan, thanks and no problem. I came from the VW/Audi community so I know where to look for info. Glad I could help.

Perhaps you could call APR and see whats up with the programming of the upgraded pump?

I wasn't able to find Hitachi, so that was a dead end.... and my buddy at WorldPac doesn't have access to all the new technical info yet, so that was another dead end to see if the APR upgraded pump was the same original unit that came with our cars. They said it wasn't, but frankly I dont believe them, just because they don't know anything about Mazdas???

I am absolutely going to call APR to see if I can get more info on the pump. However, they may not be willing to share much information with me since I'm sure that they'd rather get the sales as opposed to giving away pertinent information to another manufacturer. But the worst they can do is tell me to buzz off, so I'll definitely give it a shot. And if they're so confident that it won't work on our cars, then they have no reason not to share information with me

And you're right-on again, I'm also trying to get more details on what kind of programming changes are required for the new pump. You really did strike gold with that thread you posted, and now we have a lot more information to work with. I said it before, but thanks again for sharing.

When/If I do get in touch with APR, I will post the details of our discussion here.


Jordan

 

[Red MS3 n NyC]

^^^^^^ LMAO

Sweeeeet...this is a step in the right direction.

-B

 

[shucky]

I'd like to act like a child for a moment and tell mrlilguy that I was the one who actually posted about the VW FSI tuners (APR, VF, and AutoTech) in another thread. I came from the VW camp myself and often still read on the vortex forums. lilguy seen my thread to Haltech and ran with it. I give thanks though for him having the time to put this together and get the ball rolling!

Also, I dont believe APR either. They are very secretive about their products and even if the pump was identical they wouldn't admit it because they probably wouldn't want their pump associated with a Mazda, especially if someone picked one up to try out and it caused problems (on a non vw/audi).

Anyways lilguy, thanks bro! =)

 

[BoostedSpd6]

im so glad im waiting to buy my turbo and EMS till next spring by then hopefully the fuel problem wil be figured out too..this is just amazing. i was on here the night he posted the thread and since then im am amazed at how much this has gotten attention and how much weve learned in just these few days..and lilguy since u started this and gave us this incredible info, ur ******* awesome.(bowdown).. jordan i wish u the best of luck with APR.