Lightweight AGM or Lithium battery in Cold Weather daily driver?

Jack Rabbit

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18 Mazda CX5 AW
Which is better in cold and overall? Lightweight AGM or LifePO4 Lithium?
Am looking to drop battery weight in cold climate daily driver. Stock battery is 32 lbs. Comparing Bosch flat plate AGM @ 18 lbs, Braille AGM @ 21lbs, Braille Lithium motorcycle @ 8 lbs, and Antigravity Lithium @ 16.5 lbs.(lower if drop group class/cca). The Lithiums are lighter but way more expensive. Have always used NAPA lead acid batteries which have been reliable but weigh a ton. Anyone have experience with any of these new lightweight AGM or Lithium?
 
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I would go AGM, especially since daily driver and cold weather. The AGM will last and last. My last AGM battery lasted almost 10 years before needing to be replaced. Those lithium batteries might be light weight, but they are only good when you are looking for every last bit of weight for some racing spec you're trying to meet. They also give no warning when they are getting low, they just drop off and stop working. So, all that money spent and weight saved, then you're stuck with a car that won't start. And, from what I understand, you can't jump start them like you can a traditional battery.

Just my $0.02
 
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I would go AGM, especially since daily driver and cold weather. The AGM will last and last. My last AGM battery lasted almost 10 years before needing to be replaced. Those lithium batteries might be light weight, but they are only good when you are looking for every last bit of weight for some racing spec you're trying to meet. They also give no warning when they are getting low, they just drop off and stop working. So, all that money spent and weight saved, then you're stuck with a car that won't start. And, from what I understand, you can't jump start them like you can a traditional battery.

Just my $0.02
Thanks Njaremka!

Was leaning toward the AGM's but learned about those lithiums in the Miata forum and they are so damn light. The post was several years old but those Miata guys are nuts about weight...one was already running a 6 lb lithium but switched to a 1.8 pounder with a tender( whatever the heck that is) to keep it charged.

But yeah, might just go with the Bosch or Braille AGM's.
Unless I just got two(2) of the 1.8 lithiums and kept one in the trunk for emergencys.
 
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If you can afford their considerably higher price:

- Some lithium batteries will self-jump start; they don’t go dead but shut down, preserving enough power for several restarts.

- Some have 2 to 3 times the cold cranking amps compared to lead-acid types.

- If you’re worried about them ‘dying without warning’, a simple bluetooth app will watch their condition for you.

I’ve used lithium batteries extensively in the past 15 years in non-automotive applications, and their technology and performance have improved startlingly in that time. For those who fear that lithium batteries are unsafe or lack endurance - look at the plethora of electric vehicles being sold today.

The biggest consideration to me is the cost/reward ratio. Due to the current very high price for a quality lithium battery and the overall small weight advantage, I won’t be purchasing one soon.
 
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I have the Optima Redtop. I think it might be a few pounds less than the Group 27, mostly because it's a little smaller.
It doesn't really change the overall weight that much.
 
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I have a LiFePO4 battery in my Miata. It is not suitable for use in a daily driver in a vehicle with a high power demand like a CX-5. It has enormous starting power (current), but has relatively little capacity, measured in Amp-Hours. Specifically, the battery I run weighs 4.8 pounds, has 540 CCA, but only 12 A-Hr compared to the OEM battery's 45 A-Hr. I am on my second one partly due to sitting at a burger drive-in listening to the R&R Hall of Fame awards for 45 min. Battery died. I forgot and left a door open in my garage a few hours another time and it dropped so low it would never recover. 13 A-Hrs, doesn't go far. To keep the dark current from pulling the battery too low (takes 2 weeks, sitting) I have to keep My Miata on a specialty charger when parked.

In addition, I cannot run my blower fan on max if I will have to idle the engine, because the Miata's charging system drops below 13.1V in that situation. That will cause damage to this LiFePO4 battery.

All this is fine with a toy convertible, or specialty application like a motorcycle that we all like to fuss over, but, every day? No.

As heavy as a CX-5 is, there is no point. Losing 27 pounds in a 2500 pound car, maybe. I thought the steering responded a little quicker. Dropping 34 pounds in a 3600 pound SUV and paying $300 to do it makes little sense.

An AGM battery will last longer for a small premium, if you are dying to blow cash. Flooded cell Pb-SO4 batteries are the most popular car battery for many reasons.
 
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I have a LiFePO4 battery in my Miata. It is not suitable for use in a daily driver in a vehicle with a high power demand like a CX-5. It has enormous starting power (current), but has relatively little capacity, measured in Amp-Hours. Specifically, the battery I run weighs 4.8 pounds, has 540 CCA, but only 12 A-Hr compared to the OEM battery's 45 A-Hr. I am on my second one partly due to sitting at a burger drive-in listening to the R&R Hall of Fame awards for 45 min. Battery died. I forgot and left a door open in my garage a few hours another time and it dropped so low it would never recover. 13 A-Hrs, doesn't go far. To keep the dark current from pulling the battery too low (takes 2 weeks, sitting) I have to keep My Miata on a specialty charger when parked.

In addition, I cannot run my blower fan on max if I will have to idle the engine, because the Miata's charging system drops below 13.1V in that situation. That will cause damage to this LiFePO4 battery.

All this is fine with a toy convertible, or specialty application like a motorcycle that we all like to fuss over, but, every day? No.

As heavy as a CX-5 is, there is no point. Losing 27 pounds in a 2500 pound car, maybe. I thought the steering responded a little quicker. Dropping 34 pounds in a 3600 pound SUV and paying $300 to do it makes little sense.

An AGM battery will last longer for a small premium, if you are dying to blow cash. Flooded cell Pb-SO4 batteries are the most popular car battery for many reasons.
Thanks Colt... it's great to hear from a miata owner that's run these before. Needed this real world opinion. Your post helped me decide to stay away from Li for now. Lithium seems like it still needs to work out alot of problems and lower pricing.

For now a lightweight AGM is the way to go, even though pricier. If I wasn't adding weight to a non-turbo, would just use my $120 Napa lead battery(37 lbs).

The Mazda CX5 non-turbo setup and curb weight seems close to perfect and has just the right amount of pep...in retrospect shoulda got the turbo(but only because I'm adding weight.)

However in order to maintain close to stock weight, while adding accessories, means need to drop some weight, wherever I can, including the dreaded gym membership.

Don't want the cx5 to feel sluggish after adding 100 to 150 pounds of modifications and additions( hitches, roof racks, fullsize spare, etc.) on the daily driver to only feel more sluggish once start adding passengers and luggage, etc. on vacations, wknd excursions, etc.

For most people reading this thread, it appears a cheap flooded lead acid should be just fine(I prefer NAPA). However, for those adding a ton of weight, a lightweight AGM seems preferable over a lithium.

For reference, the Mazda cx5 stock battery = approx. 32 lbs. ( Which is decent), flooded lead acids and regular AGMs are between 30 to 50 lbs, lightweight AGM are 16 to 21 lbs, and Lithium are 2 to 16 lbs. Pricing wise, Flooded =$, AGM= $$, and Li = $$$.

On curb-weight, it's interesting to see Ford pushing towards 4 cylinder vehicles like Bronco and Maverick with approx. same curb weight as the cx5 to gain fuel mpg, while Mazda is going in other direction with plans to throw 6 cylinders in the new cx5s. Why can't the manufacturers just make a inline 5 SUV? For the perfect balance?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge / experience.
 
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If you can afford their considerably higher price:

- Some lithium batteries will self-jump start; they don’t go dead but shut down, preserving enough power for several restarts.

- Some have 2 to 3 times the cold cranking amps compared to lead-acid types.

- If you’re worried about them ‘dying without warning’, a simple bluetooth app will watch their condition for you.

I’ve used lithium batteries extensively in the past 15 years in non-automotive applications, and their technology and performance have improved startlingly in that time. For those who fear that lithium batteries are unsafe or lack endurance - look at the plethora of electric vehicles being sold today.

The biggest consideration to me is the cost/reward ratio. Due to the current very high price for a quality lithium battery and the overall small weight advantage, I won’t be purchasing one soon.
Thanks Carpe.
Appreciate your opinion.

After reading opinions like yours on this and other sites, and doing research,
agree with you that the cost/reward value isn't there for the Lithium.

And like you mentioned, lithium appears to be a great proven technology in certain instances( electric vehicles, preferably in moderate climates,etc).

But, after looking at everything, it appears that Lithium is not best option for cold climates, still has some reliability issues and might not be best for replacements in gas powered vehicles.

Just sent an email to Antigravity batteries asking/ concerning how they prevent wasting multiple charge cycles when the LifePO4 is constantly connected to your alternator. So if you start your car 6 times a day( twice for work, twice for lunch, and twice for evening errands, how the battery will last more than a year. Until these questions can be resolved/answered, will not be paying $700 for a group 35 lithium.

I'm with you on not using lithium in a daily driver for now because the cost/reward isn't there.
 
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Ok. Here are results.
Disclaimer: Have always run either factory or NAPA batteries until recently and Diehards along time ago.
Comparison is of Group 35 batteries only(or comparable group type 35 for Lithiums) for a Mazda cx5 or other vehicles using bci35.

Lightweight:
Lightweight AGM batteries Bosch(18 lbs) and Braille brands(21 lbs) are the best value for mid $230 price range.

Super lightweight:
You can get lighter with lithium but comparable group 35 lithiums ranging from $600 to $1000...just not worth it, especially considering downsides.

Stock weight;
To stay near stock weight of 32 lbs, the Mazda (yuasa or Panasonics) oem battery (only $128 and 550cca) for price or Optima red(720 cca but $250) for most power.

> Stock Weight
Slightly over stock weight best include Exide sprinter (650 cca for $94) or NAPA Prem AGM(640 cca for $167). Optima yellow way overpriced for 35 to 39 lb range and has less cca. For the price of Optima yellow, might as well get a Braille or Bosch lightweight battery.

>>Heavyweight;
For heavy duty, but a heavy weight battery(48 lbs), the Full River battery has 750cc for $278. Never heard of it or used it but seems to be the best value. However at this price point and cca, might as well drop weight and get an Optima Red.

Didn't take into account every single battery out there but compared alot of brand names and some
unknown to me.

Please note the comparison was on weight, price & cold cranking amps. Did not consider reliability nor warranties, nor other factors that may be important to you.

Due to fact am dropping weight, will be paying the premium and switching to a Bosch or Braille lightweight AGM. However if was staying at/near stock would buy the cheaper Mazda battery or the Exide sprint.

Please feel free to add any suggestions/comments.
 
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" ...ordered the smaller battery bracket and bought a Costco 51R, which is oddly marked 500 CCA.

the original size 35 battery weighs ~35 lbs, the 51R weighs ~26 lbs.
Just a quick tip if you want to reduce weight if you are replacing the battery anyways.
BTW, the nissan GTR uses a 51R battery stock also. ..."

I found this on another forum. Group 51 is lighter and smaller but people have found it can work.

You might want a jump starter in really cold weather😒
 
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" ...ordered the smaller battery bracket and bought a Costco 51R, which is oddly marked 500 CCA.

the original size 35 battery weighs ~35 lbs, the 51R weighs ~26 lbs.
Just a quick tip if you want to reduce weight if you are replacing the battery anyways.
BTW, the nissan GTR uses a 51R battery stock also. ..."

I found this on another forum. Group 51 is lighter and smaller but people have found it can work.

You might want a jump starter in really cold weather😒
Thanks. Great idea. Especially for someone that wants to cut a few pounds for cheap. Unfortunately, for my use, I need to drop as much as possible and pay the $$$.
 
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Stock weight;
To stay near stock weight of 32 lbs, the Mazda (yuasa or Panasonics) oem battery (only $128 and 550cca) for price or Optima red(720 cca but $250) for most power.

Please feel free to add any suggestions/comments.
Mazda OEM “High-Performance” batteries sold in US Mazda dealers are made by neither Panasonic nor Yuasa but by Interstate.

7C5391B2-C208-40C4-AA53-B5AC032D2170.jpeg
 
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" ...ordered the smaller battery bracket and bought a Costco 51R, which is oddly marked 500 CCA.

the original size 35 battery weighs ~35 lbs, the 51R weighs ~26 lbs.
Just a quick tip if you want to reduce weight if you are replacing the battery anyways.
BTW, the nissan GTR uses a 51R battery stock also. ..."

I found this on another forum. Group 51 is lighter and smaller but people have found it can work.

You might want a jump starter in really cold weather😒
My 1998 Honda CR-V uses Group 51R which is smaller and lighter than Group 35. But I definitely won’t use Group 51R battery in my CX-5 to save 10 lbs. but lose 140 CCA.
 
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Mazda OEM “High-Performance” batteries sold in US Mazda dealers are made by neither Panasonic nor Yuasa but by Interstate.

View attachment 303867
Hmmm.. my bad...the original stock in my car has Japanese writing and is a YUASA 53D32L..the specs are approx. 32 lbs. My car must of been built in Japan and shipped over.

Good catch. Had assumed this was what was sold by the Mazda dealerships as the replacement stock #. The YUASA seems to be available online from different websites although shipping may be added cost. If Mazda only sells Interstate replacements, it's possible the battery weighs similar to the current weight of Interstate MT35 which is 550cca at 32.3 lbs. By comparison the interstate MTX35 AGM weighs 42 lbs, way too much for me.
 
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Usually a smaller battery would be cheaper. Why is the Bosch worth that much?
Nope... This is actually a group 35 battery with 650 cca and weighs only 18.5 lbs. The braille is 550 cca and weighs 21 lbs. Your getting lightweight for the $$$. If you want lighter at a discount, the die hard silver is 575 cca at 28.5 lbs for $160. It's classified as a group 26 though hence why I missed it in my original comparison post. For any one reading this thread, please note that my comparisons were based on information from the manufacturer websites...
I cannot guarantee their information is correct. If their specifications are posted wrong, that is their misrepresentation. And this thread is for informational purposes only.
 
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Hmmm.. my bad...the original stock in my car has Japanese writing and is a YUASA 53D32L..the specs are approx. 32 lbs. My car must of been built in Japan and shipped over.
So far the factory batteries we’ve seen in CX-5 for the US market are always Panasonic, as all US CX-5’s are imported into US from Japan.

BB246B51-8463-44DA-B824-A867663F30D1.jpeg



Good catch. Had assumed this was what was sold by the Mazda dealerships as the replacement stock #. The YUASA seems to be available online from different websites although shipping may be added cost. If Mazda only sells Interstate replacements, it's possible the battery weighs alot more than the original stock...maybe similar to the current weight of Interstate mtx-35 which is a whopping 42 lbs...way too much for me... It was way down on my spreadsheeted comparisons.
Ordering flooded lead-acid automotive batteries online is almost impossible nowadays due to HAZMAT compliance requirements on shipping. The weight on Mazda OEM “High-Performance” battery is similar to Interstate Group 35 battery sold at Costco, 38.2 lbs.

7CF4C514-8FB6-4F16-82C3-D6565E3998A2.jpeg
 
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So far the factory batteries we’ve seen in CX-5 for the US market are always Panasonic, as all US CX-5’s are imported into US from Japan.

View attachment 303883



Ordering flooded lead-acid automotive batteries online is almost impossible nowadays due to HAZMAT compliance requirements on shipping. The weight on Mazda OEM “High-Performance” battery is similar to Interstate Group 35 battery sold at Costco, 38.2 lbs.

View attachment 303884
Hmmm ...the Mazda battery(with Mazda high performance logo) shown in your first picture of the previous post top view had cca of 550 which is similar to interstate part# MT-35 of 550cca and 32.3 lbs. and only $145 at NTB. The above Costco battery is 640 cca which is similar to the MTP-35 of 38.2 lbs. So it appears the interstate 32.3 lb is most similar to the Yuasa/Panasonic stock battery.

Your right..was
braindead and didn't think about inability to shipping lead acid batterys due to hazard. My apologies. Please forgive my brain fart.

As far as Panasonic versus Yuasa... Panasonic transferred it's Panasonic Storage Battery Ltd subsidiary and all lead acid battery manufacturing to Yuasa International in October 2015. So regardless of nameplate, it is or at least appears to be the same battery.
 
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Nope... This is actually a group 35 battery with 650 cca and weighs only 18.5 lbs. The braille is 550 cca and weighs 21 lbs. Your getting lightweight for the $$$. If you want lighter at a discount, the die hard silver is 575 cca at 28.5 lbs for $160. It's classified as a group 26 though hence why I missed it in my original comparison post. For any one reading this thread, please note that my comparisons were based on information from the manufacturer websites...
I cannot guarantee their information is correct. If their specifications are posted wrong, that is their misrepresentation. And this thread is for informational purposes only.
650 cca for $230 is decent enough, and if it only weighs 18 lbs that would be great.

Where can you buy this battery?
 
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