lightning and GT get passed by MSP

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Ummm that guy is a chassis engineer at ford. Ford was doing some testing of the GT and the driver was getting used to the track and the car at the time.
 
and another note ... the MSP didnt just simply pass by the bolt and gt .. the GT was flagging him to go around .. watch it again
 
MP5Raycer said:
and another note ... the MSP didnt just simply pass by the bolt and gt .. the GT was flagging him to go around .. watch it again

Yup, that's generally how they do it in races like that. If a faster car is behind you, you're supposed to let them by.
 
ooooh I love the sound of a supercharger ~ oooh

yeah, that gt was designed and built to kill ferraris, there's no way a speed could walk the gt. besides, you can see him slow down, and it's kinda blurry, but i think he waved.

oh god I got a chub just thinking about that supercharger (hump)
 
Yeah, that's the point of this thread. We're pointing out that the dude in the GT can't drive, otherwise he probably wouldn't have gotten beat by the Mazdaspeed. And yes, he did wave. As I jsut said, that's what you do when you're being tailed by a faster car in a race like that, you wave them past and slow down.
 
yes, they let the MSP pass, but explain why the MSP continued to put distance on the Fords.... simple answer: without more long straights the course is more suited to the handling of the MSP than the big powered Fords.
 
RyanJayG said:
yes, they let the MSP pass, but explain why the MSP continued to put distance on the Fords.... simple answer: without more long straights the course is more suited to the handling of the MSP than the big powered Fords.

Are you kidding me? The Ford GT would kill the MSP on any course. The MSP handles great, but not GT or Ferrari great...

(confused) (confused) (confused)
 
wow i know you guys love the msp as did i. and i will be one of the first to down a ford since i hate them. but seriously if you all think the msp stands a chance with the GT you are just crazy. that is what the GT was made for. it was made for le mans...the ultimate in road racing. i mean really....550hp and 500tq and 1g on the skipad stock? c'mon guys long straights or not the ford gt was made for that way beyond the hopes and dreams of any MSP.

clrealy that dude in the gt could not drive. look how many times he was on the breaks in and out of corners. that was aweful.
 
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Ferrari is a nice car, but cars at that level (and immense cost) might have only a small gain over the MSP on the skidpad, etc. A MSP can do 1g on the skidpad too with tires and minor suspension adjustments. With equally sticky tires it may not win with equally adept drivers but it won't be far behind on a tight course that suits the MSP's lesser acceleration. I'm too lazy to find current data, but here is an old article from Road&Track on the MP3. The MP3 may have been last but the numbers show it wasn't that far behind. I know people love to put Ferrari's and the like on a pedestal, but you're paying 8-10x the price, and cars like that can be tricky to drive at the upper limits. The extra cost is exclusivity because it sure isn't 8x the performance.

So I also agree that a skilled driver in a MSP will walk away from a Ferrari or Ford GT driven by someone with low to moderate skills in that car (thus proved by all the rich people that wipe out in supercars on the street). And I can say for sure that if I ran both cars on a course today, I would be way faster in a MSP because it's so much easier to use all of it's performance. You'd need a good amount of track time before you'd run 9/10th's in the GT and not crap your pants. The rich owner/investor of the place I work has a $600K barn to store his cars. 2 Vipers, a M3, older 911, a Ferrari (don't know which model but a couple years old), a 2004 Mini Cooper, and a big Yukon. He likes the M3 and Mini for fun driving the best because he says they are a lot less work to drive fast. I had to follow him in his Viper once to his other office. Hey, we were just on roads with speed limits and I bet I had more fun on that drive than he did since his car was very underused and I had to go 7/10's to keep up in spots, and that's the final goal. I'd much rather have the joy at the near limits of my car driving every day than have an awesome car that can hardly ever stretch it's legs because the road is 35mph posted and I'm stuck behind a Buick. I'll wait to buy a supercar until I can build my own track too.


jersey_emt said:
Are you kidding me? The Ford GT would kill the MSP on any course. The MSP handles great, but not GT or Ferrari great...

(confused) (confused) (confused)
 
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SciFiMan said:
Ferrari is a nice car, but cars at that level (and immense cost) might have only a small gain over the MSP on the skidpad, etc. With equally sticky tires it may not win with equally adept drivers but it won't be far behind on a tight course that suits the MSP's lesser acceleration. I'm too lazy to find current data, but here is an old article from Road&Track on the MP3. The MP3 may have been last but the numbers show it wasn't that far behind. I know people love to put Ferrari's and the like on a pedestal, but you're paying 8-10x the price, and cars like that can be tricky to drive at the upper limits. The extra cost is exclusivity because it sure isn't 8x the performance

So I also agree that a skilled driver in a MSP will walk away from a Ferrari driven by someone with low to moderate skills in that car (thus proved by all the rich people that wipe out in supercars on the street). And I can say for sure that if I ran both cars on a course today, I would be way faster in a MSP because it's so much easier to use all of it's performance. The rich owner/investor of the place I work has a $600K barn to store his cars. 2 Vipers, a M3, older 911, a Ferrari (don't know which model but a couple years old), a 2004 Mini Cooper, and a big Yukon. He likes the M3 and Mini for fun driving the best because he says they are a lot less work to drive fast.

0.89G for the MSP and > 1.0G for a Ferrari or the GT isn't exactly a 'small gain' over the MSP. That's a significant gain.
 
Yeah, I like Mazda handling as much as the next guy, but lets not get overzealous here guys. A GT driven by a skilled driver could walk all over any MSP driven by anyone any day ever. It's just simply not a contest. Bottom line.
 
.89 is just the stock car with familyman tires on it. Put the all season Potenza's on a Ferrari and then run the numbers again. They would still have a lot meatier all seasons so that helps, but it's all relative. I still say it's a very marginal gain for the huge price difference. Maybe if I had a car like that in my driveway I'd feel different but I doubt it. We'll never know though since I've never seen skidpad results with a MSP running track tires, but I'll bet it's .95 or better just with a change in tires. Wouldn't take all that much to get to 1.0g. Maybe $3000 at the most if you include a couple suspension changes.

jersey_emt said:
0.89G for the MSP and > 1.0G for a Ferrari or the GT isn't exactly a 'small gain' over the MSP. That's a significant gain.
 
SciFiMan said:
.89 is just the stock car with familyman tires on it. Put the all season Potenza's on a Ferrari and then run the numbers again. They would still have a lot meatier all seasons so that helps, but it's all relative. I still say it's a very marginal gain for the huge price difference. Maybe if I had a car like that in my driveway I'd feel different but I doubt it. We'll never know though since I've never seen skidpad results with a MSP running track tires, but I'll bet it's .95 or better just with a change in tires. Wouldn't take all that much to get to 1.0g. Maybe $3000 at the most if you include a couple suspension changes.

0.89 G's with the stock, very sticky, ultra high performance SUMMER-ONLY Potenzas with a treadwear rating of 140...hardly 'familyman tires'.

And you'd be hard pressed to find any suspension upgrades for the MSP that would bring it to 1.0....the stock MSP suspension is amazing and very well tuned...it's already near the limits of the chassis.
 
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Ferrari is a nice car, but cars at that level (and immense cost) might have only a small gain over the MSP on the skidpad, etc. A MSP can do 1g on the skidpad too with tires and minor suspension adjustments. With equally sticky tires it may not win with equally adept drivers but it won't be far behind on a tight course that suits the MSP's lesser acceleration. I'm too lazy to find current data, but here is an old article from Road&Track on the MP3. The MP3 may have been last but the numbers show it wasn't that far behind. I know people love to put Ferrari's and the like on a pedestal, but you're paying 8-10x the price, and cars like that can be tricky to drive at the upper limits. The extra cost is exclusivity because it sure isn't 8x the performance.

So I also agree that a skilled driver in a MSP will walk away from a Ferrari or Ford GT driven by someone with low to moderate skills in that car (thus proved by all the rich people that wipe out in supercars on the street). And I can say for sure that if I ran both cars on a course today, I would be way faster in a MSP because it's so much easier to use all of it's performance. You'd need a good amount of track time before you'd run 9/10th's in the GT and not crap your pants. The rich owner/investor of the place I work has a $600K barn to store his cars. 2 Vipers, a M3, older 911, a Ferrari (don't know which model but a couple years old), a 2004 Mini Cooper, and a big Yukon. He likes the M3 and Mini for fun driving the best because he says they are a lot less work to drive fast. I had to follow him in his Viper once to his other office. Hey, we were just on roads with speed limits and I bet I had more fun on that drive than he did since his car was very underused and I had to go 7/10's to keep up in spots, and that's the final goal. I'd much rather have the joy at the near limits of my car driving every day than have an awesome car that can hardly ever stretch it's legs because the road is 35mph posted and I'm stuck behind a Buick. I'll wait to buy a supercar until I can build my own track too.

sorry i quit reading part way into all that. you can write a book if you want but you will not be able to prove the MSP is "better suited" for that. making an argument for less power = better performance on a tight track is just inane. well i have more news for you. that was a tight track. it is only 1.88 mile with only 2 significant straights..so you are telling me that the cars racing in american le mans on equally tight tracks or tighter for that matter will not perform as well as an MSP with substantial chassis mods? so what about places on the tour like lime rock or infineon or maybe even laguna seca? you mean all those pro racers are driving those silly porches and vettes and DBR9's should really be driving an MSP? you should call them up and let them know they are missing out on the perfect 4 door to race le mans in.

sorry that is a bit overkill and smart assed on my part but really dude....the MSP will never be better suited for a tight track than a GT, ferrari, porche, viper, vette, etc...
take the same driver, put him in an MSP and then put him in a GT. it won't be close.
 
Nah, that's just $$$ used to build a big engine. Anyone can do that if you can sell em and still make a profit. That wasn't a very tight course so of course it could squirt ahead in spots. Chassis setup is different, and since we don't have any real details on the event (driver skill level, tires used, etc.) ;) I can hereby claim that the Mazda walked away from the other cars due to a skilled driver, race tires, and lesser drivers in the other cars.

anarchistchiken said:
Yeah, I like Mazda handling as much as the next guy, but lets not get overzealous here guys. A GT driven by a skilled driver could walk all over any MSP driven by anyone any day ever. It's just simply not a contest. Bottom line.
 
SciFiMan said:
Nah, that's just $$$ used to build a big engine. Anyone can do that if you can sell em and still make a profit. That wasn't a very tight course so of course it could squirt ahead in spots. Chassis setup is different, and since we don't have any real details on the event (driver skill level, tires used, etc.) ;) I can hereby claim that the Mazda walked away from the other cars due to a skilled driver, race tires, and lesser drivers in the other cars.


I have no idea who/what you're responding to, or what you're saying.
 
The MSP is a great handling car, but c'mon, comparing it to a GT?! People, get out of the "MSP is the best car because I own one" world and take note of what else is out there. Statements saying that the MSP is on equal ground to a Ford GT just make you very, very ignorant.
 
anyone who thinks an MSP(i don't care how many suspension mods) can hang with a Ford GT on any track is a complete moron.
 
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