Life Threatening Defect - Engine Overun, taking mazda to court

[medievil2003]

Mazda 6 - Life threatening engine over-run. DPF?

Hey all, I hope everyone is well and 2010 is progressing well for you all...

I am based in London and have a Mazda 6 2nd gen 2.0d SL.

Right, where to start. You may have seen a similar post on here before about my engine over accelerating on it's own accord. I am here to ask for everyones opinions, expert advice, legal advice etc! basically the whole works.

It started in August 2009, when i was driving in a 3 lane road going approx. 65 mph to then suddenly see/feel my car shot up in power and the revv counter was on max 6,000rpm i think (redline) and i was hitting 100+ approaching a roundabout 650yrds away - all i could do was switch the engine off, force my way over the other 2 lanes and pull the handbrake up just before the roundabout.

I got the recovery company to come down and it was diagnosed instantly of a huge amount of diesel/oil contamination of which something the mechanic on recovery had never seen or heard of before. So, the next day the dealer had a look at the car and ignorantly told me nothing is wrong with it just apart from the DPF not regenerating.....I thought to my self, hold on - there is no DPF light on or flashing so how could that be. I didnt get a valid answer. I left the car in there a few days upon doing my research luckily led me to find out about the diesel/oil contamination of which i should get an oil sample, mazda refused to do so and was very shakey on the idea of me having this, so i took the car out of their possession got it towed home and my local mechanic got the oil sample had it tested and the results were a 62% diesel to oil contamination..

To cut this story extremely short, Mazda UK, Mazda Dealer & Mazda credit are all blaming me and my family for the way we drive the car i.e. because it's a diesel it is only suitable for long journeys only (of which we were never told when we bought the car, we were looking to save money and have a stronger engine - obviously not!) I have been unable to drive my car now for 8 months as the fight with mazda continues.

I need to ask you lot what you think could have caused this and before you ask, i check my oil levels weekly and had done so 1 week exactly to the incident... in that week i must have covered at least 1,000 miles + i have also had my injectors tested and they came back fine.

My last resort as this is with my lawyer now is to have the engine basically stripped down to find out where this problem is and how it happened + whether the car is fit for purpose, which it's clearly not - reason i say this is because if the DPF was not regenerating as it should, fair enough these cars will go into Limp Mode but why should it happen where you can't control the car and you are unsure of when this over-run will occur again. As i said previously, no warning lights ever come on & thank god i have a picture of the dash board at the time which proves what i say.

Mazda yet after 8 months are rude & ignoring anything i say as long as many others of us here in the UK! I am still getting the blame for not checking my oil levels, not driving the car how it should be driven & that i do not know how the DPF regenerates. My car at the moment is seized, even though the battery is full, nothing will happen to the engine - i turn the key and nothing... no lights, noise nothing. May i also ask, with this kind of diesel/oil contamination is this engine ruined seeing as it has not been turned on for a long time.

Thank you all for taking the time in reading this & any comments/advice will be greatly appreciated!!

I am looking to start a website which will help us all come together to put our points across to Mazda UK or abroad because it seems like the Mazda customer sevice do not want to listen to what any of us have to say, hopefully the more pressure we put on them they will be forced to listen - that's my aim. Me and the user Velocityblade will be working on this as he is having DPF issues with Limp Mode without warning. (eyeballs):'(

 

[Blendercloud]

I believe the user "The Great NY" is a diesel technician. He may be able to offer you some assistance. I apologize as I don't know much about diesels. I wish you the best of luck though!

 

[medievil2003]

Hey mate, thanks for your reply.

No worries - where do i find this expert?

 

[medievil2003]

Hey all, I hope everyone is well and 2010 is progressing well for you all...

I am based in London and have a Mazda 6 2nd gen 2.0d SL.

Right, where to start. You may have seen a similar post on here before about my engine over accelerating on it's own accord. I am here to ask for everyones opinions, expert advice, legal advice etc! basically the whole works.

It started in August 2009, when i was driving in a 3 lane road going approx. 65 mph to then suddenly see/feel my car shot up in power and the revv counter was on max 6,000rpm i think (redline) and i was hitting 100+ approaching a roundabout 650yrds away - all i could do was switch the engine off, force my way over the other 2 lanes and pull the handbrake up just before the roundabout.

I got the recovery company to come down and it was diagnosed instantly of a huge amount of diesel/oil contamination of which something the mechanic on recovery had never seen or heard of before. So, the next day the dealer had a look at the car and ignorantly told me nothing is wrong with it just apart from the DPF not regenerating.....I thought to my self, hold on - there is no DPF light on or flashing so how could that be. I didnt get a valid answer. I left the car in there a few days upon doing my research luckily led me to find out about the diesel/oil contamination of which i should get an oil sample, mazda refused to do so and was very shakey on the idea of me having this, so i took the car out of their possession got it towed home and my local mechanic got the oil sample had it tested and the results were a 62% diesel to oil contamination..

To cut this story extremely short, Mazda UK, Mazda Dealer & Mazda credit are all blaming me and my family for the way we drive the car i.e. because it's a diesel it is only suitable for long journeys only (of which we were never told when we bought the car, we were looking to save money and have a stronger engine - obviously not!) I have been unable to drive my car now for 8 months as the fight with mazda continues.

I need to ask you lot what you think could have caused this and before you ask, i check my oil levels weekly and had done so 1 week exactly to the incident... in that week i must have covered at least 1,000 miles + i have also had my injectors tested and they came back fine.

My last resort as this is with my lawyer now is to have the engine basically stripped down to find out where this problem is and how it happened + whether the car is fit for purpose, which it's clearly not - reason i say this is because if the DPF was not regenerating as it should, fair enough these cars will go into Limp Mode but why should it happen where you can't control the car and you are unsure of when this over-run will occur again. As i said previously, no warning lights ever come on & thank god i have a picture of the dash board at the time which proves what i say.

Mazda yet after 8 months are rude & ignoring anything i say as long as many others of us here in the UK! I am still getting the blame for not checking my oil levels, not driving the car how it should be driven & that i do not know how the DPF regenerates. My car at the moment is seized, even though the battery is full, nothing will happen to the engine - i turn the key and nothing... no lights, noise nothing. May i also ask, with this kind of diesel/oil contamination is this engine ruined seeing as it has not been turned on for a long time.

Thank you all for taking the time in reading this & any comments/advice will be greatly appreciated!!

I am looking to start a website which will help us all come together to put our points across to Mazda UK or abroad because it seems like the Mazda customer sevice do not want to listen to what any of us have to say, hopefully the more pressure we put on them they will be forced to listen - that's my aim. Me and the user Velocityblade will be working on this as he is having DPF issues with Limp Mode without warning.

 

[MAZDA_SPEED]

WTF!! long journeys only. BS

 

[Blendercloud]

Here ya go:

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/member.php?u=47566

 

[MATX]

Read the book that came with the car and see if it says anything about "because it's a diesel it is only suitable for long journeys only" and make sure you get names of who you talk to if pos. a employee #. Also look under maintenance and see when they say its required to check the oil, ect. How many miles (or km) are on the car?

As for your car now, if its under warranty still, have it towed to dealer and make them get it running. Better to have a running car to trade out of then a car that is screwed.

 

[medievil2003]

Hi Matx, thanks for your reply.

Thats the only problem. I have read the handbook and no-where does it say "long journeys only" they only mention this to you once you bring the car in for the DPF issues. Which myn never even had warning lights.

This has been going on for 8 months now, they say check oil weekly - which i always did every week and strictly done so. I have done so far 11,981 miles so was not even due its first service of 12,500 miles or 1 year but Mazda were complaining that because i never had my service thats why the engine-over run occured.

You see im hearing 2 different things, the dealer tells me it's a DPF problem where is does not regenerate but i have never seen this light come and and only noticed the limp home mode once which when the car was on 4,500 miles.... other people are saying it has nothing to do with the DPF at all but to do with a fueling problem hence the reason why my engine could switch off and not just blow up.

The car is still under warranty but mazda are denying to fix any of this under the warranty, but at first offered to give me a discount on the 1st service but i said no because firstly, the car is not fit for purpose, secondly i was not told at the dealers before i bought the car what engine would best suit me for long/short journeys (a petrol would have been my choice if i found this out before)

From the start, i have had to pay for DPF regenerations, and when this engine over-run happened it went into the mazda dealer for a few days i even had to pay 45 for a diagnostic because it was not covered under warranty even though i swore i check the oil levels and no warning lights come on.... It was left with my word against theirs even though RAC Breakdown assistance confirmed no warning lights were on the dashboard when the incident happened.

At the moment i am on the stage of getting my engine inspected, which means the engine will have to be dismantled and inspected seperatly to find the cause & also to see whether the car is fit for it's purpose. Why do these cars not have a "oil high" warning light if Mazda know how serious the problem is.... the only answer i got is because "the engines are self managed engines" how can that justify anything?? Especially on modern cars with all these warning lights for tyre pressure, low oil! etc etc.

Do you lot have any advice for me? on what you think i should check, what to do next etc? this is all with my solicitor at the moment but will probably end up going to court as i have the finance department on my back 24/7. I am NOT paying for a car that wont even start out on my drive.

Thats another thing, i am unsure whether it's because of the large diesel dilution in the engine oil but the car just wont start even if i use jump leads and connect it to another vehicle. There are no lights, nothing ticks over, absolutley no power.... is this because of the engine oil thats completely damaged everything?

Sorry for all the questions here (yawn)

But i really do appreciate any thing you can help me with.

 

[MATX]

When you go to the dealer ask them why they wont cover it under warranty. Bring the book with you, Speak with The dealer manager not the service manager, Ask him to point out in the book where it says you service the DPF, Ask them to pull up a pre delivery inspection checklist that they done. Whats the reason they say its not starting also? Just a word of advice when you talk to them dont be nice you gotta be the biggest dick to them. If the dealer manager wont help you call the regonial manage, If they wont help call corp. (and make sure you talk ask for a manager soon as someone answers) Not sure about the problem because N/A dont have diesel mazda6 (yet).
(I know here in the states) that they will also have to pay for dismantled and inspected costs so make sure you keep all the bills for that. And do they also have a "lemon law" there?

 

[The Great NY]

sorry, a bit late on this....didnt see the thread till a buddy mentioned it to me.

here's the skinny, the dealer is partially correct.

DPF's (diesel particulate filters) have started becoming uber common in most diesel autos now a days. the reason is the crunch on emissions across the world. basically a DPF to a diesel engine is like the Catalytic Converter to Gas engines.

they act as traps for the soot that is created by diesel combustion. supposedly cut it down 80% now, or at least thats the advertising theory behind them.

DPF regeneration is basically a term that means.......raise temperatures to burn off captured soot. thats what regeneration is. the fuel injection amount is altered at a given time to raise combustion temps to the point where they burn the soot to an ash. then that is released. and then the cycle starts all over again.

Now the problem with this is (here is where the dealer was partially correct) you have to run the vehicle at speed for a good amount of time for the DPF system to operate at 100% efficiency due to the way it raises the temps. the engine has to have pretty much constant load to raise temps enough to burn off the captured stuff. stop and go driving with a vehicle equipped with a DPF does not allow the engine to get the exhaust to the proper temp, when that happens a blockage builds after a while, way faster than a cat on a gas car clogging. whereas a clogged cat on a gas car can happen after 50k, a clogged DPF due to temps being to low can happen in a couple hundred to a couple thousand miles

while the theory behind the function of the DPF is sound. the execution is not 100%. at least not currently.

it is in my belief something that should be told to every interested diesel customer, but unfortunately given your story, its sad to see that it is not.

im unsure actually without looking into the car itself why it accelerated on it own. it possibly could be a high diesel to oil mix. or a throttle issue as well. injection pump or something may have freaked out momentarily, or something as simple as the throttle stuck. is your car cable or electronic throttle?


one thing to also remember about electronics and warning sensors.is that they arent always 100% fail safe. sometimes there may be an issue that it doesnt detect.

i wish i could help more, but reading the story it seems the only real argument you can go with is that you werent informed on how DPF equipped diesels should be used. do u have receipts of oil changes and etc? service records?

i'd go straight for mazda corporate as well, let them know whats up, and they will deal with the dealer

 

[medievil2003]

Hi Great NY,

No problem. I have been checking back everyday anyway.

My car's mileage is currently on: 11,981 & I have not driven it since this incident happened. So the problem occured in August 2009 & until this present date i am still arguing that this car is not fit for it's purpose. I got the car in Feb 2009 so only had it approx. 10 months from brand new. There was no need even to have my first service.

The problem I am facing here is that i fully understand how the DPF works and what process it involves.

Yeah, your correct - the mazda dealers should make people much more aware of what they are buying, i even told my mazda dealer that i drive in town, of which being London is never traffic free! he knew that! Either he was not informed of this DPF system and how it should work or he just wanted the sale & commission.

I have letters from Mazda UK stating the engine over-run occured because the DPF was not regenerating as it should be, at first i thought ok.... let's do some research. Funny thing is, my car must have always been regenerating as it's only ever gone into the "limp home mode" on the first 2,500 miles and never again added to this i have never seen any DPF warning light solid not flashing. The only reason i first took my car in to Mazda was because the engine management light came on of which they told me it's due to DPF not regenerating so i was charged for that.

My huge argument with Mazda is simply to find out a reason to why my engine over accelerated on it's own accord without warning and why there was no safety cut off. As i mentioned i have that whole 62% diesel/oil contamination, how could this have possibly come to this much mix? say for example the DPF was not regenerating i would have continuously gone into "limp home mode" and i would have needed a new engine if it lasted that long.

Do you not think the design needs to be altered in such respect of having an "oil high" warning light to 99% get rid of the life threatening problem i faced? If that warning light was there i wouldnt have much ground to argue on. Could you help me on the following statement from Mazda.

The reason why this car does not need certain warning lights is because the engine is a "self managed system" thats rubbish? what's the point in having any warning lights if the engine is self managed?

There are many of us here in UK who are having the same problems, a few of them could not even turn their engine off and let the engine blow, others were driving on a motorway and the DPF suddenly came on flashing & they instantly lost power whilst travelling at speeds of 60+MPH.

I am struggling to find a valid, technical & viable answer from Mazda UK & the dealers, accross the UK i am in contact with many others and they are recieving nearly identical letters to my one and given the same explanation...."These cars car designed for long journeys only" well then, you should put Mazda dealers in country sides not in greater london!

I personally think the design needs to be changed, one strange thing i noticed and maybe you could shed some light on this too. My car was registered in the date range of late 2007 - late 2008, where in 2009 a new 2.2D engine emerged with a different style of DPF regeneration which allows more users to drive in town. How is this fair let alone be justified that they do not know there is an inherant problem with the 2007 - 2008 model 2nd gen mazda 6.

I have now made contact with Mazda Motors Corp. in Japan so hopefully they can also shed some light onto this.

Thanks for your reply & i look forward in receiving your next valued response.

Mehdi.

 

[deadstick]

I fail to see how a DPF not regenerating would cause an overrun.
I know nothing about mazda's diesel, but I do know a bit about TDI's.
Most times, an overrun is caused by a leaking seal in the turbo, letting the engine oil into the intake, and giving the diesel something more than it should have for fuel (the engine oil).
Have you checked your oil level recently?
If you have a long hill on an expressway nearby, run it up that as hard as you can in a lower gear, and see if you can get a regen.
Is the supposition that the post injection (used to light off the dpf for a regen) actually the cause of the extra fuel for the over run condition?
Is there an intercooler? If you can, pull off the lower pipe and see if it is full of oil.

 

[medievil2003]

Hi deadstick, thanks for you reply.

I have letters from Mazda explaining how the DPF has not been regenerating and the general process of it. What they are basically saying is because the DPF has not regenerated for a long time then more and more diesel is being injected into the oil this the reason the engine oil rise & huge diesel oil mix.

I checked my oil every week, on the week this happened i drove approx. 1000 miles and on my calender was meant to check it 2 days after that!

i cant even use my car, its sitting out on my drive and wont even start, plus. i wouldnt risk it because it may over-run again and i do not want a blown engine on my drive and then me having no case to prove. The thing wont even turn on even after the battery had been tested full.

My main argument with Mazda UK is sure, the engine over run which should have never happened even if i didnt check the oil (which i did) but why did i not have any warning lights come on saying the DPF is failing to regen or that it needs a manual regeneration? Thats not on, mazda keep blaming me for not having my service which was not due yet, and blaming i dont drive the car how it should be driven and! get this one, that i must have put diesel in engine oil compartment when i visted a petrol station. haha! a joke right?

They know there is a problem, but my problem is proving it! the car is definetely not fit for purpose, why not have an oil high warning light if they knew this can cause engine over-runs, very similar to Toyota. They lied at first and until people started dying they took it on with a more serious attitude.

Thanks again for your reply, any help/advice is greatly appreciated as i keep hitting a brick wall on what direction to go next.

Med

 

[medievil2003]

Mazda-Campaign

Hi All,

Have not heard a reply in ages. Just thought illd update you.

Whilst there was no real progress with Mazda, i have started a campaign.

If you think you need to join after having problems with your Mazda and Customer service please visit www.mazda-campaign.co.uk


Mehdi.