Northern Ohio car. Many of the bolts were rusted and a b****. Had to let them soak. The alternator comes to mind as one that was a pain. Crank pulley was another.
Lewis7789 2002 Protege5 build thread (tons of pics)
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Northern Ohio car. Many of the bolts were rusted and a b****. Had to let them soak. The alternator comes to mind as one that was a pain. Crank pulley was another.
Welp. I'm pissed. I'm thinking that I have a blown headgasket on a USDM KLDE block.
The oil seems too runny and probably has coolant in it. Which would explain the nasty spark plugs.
Oval ports on the heads, not square. Even though they are on the intake manifold.
One head is stamped "KL-101" and the other is "KL-1A1"
I'm thinking they swapped a JDM curve neck intake manifold and timing belt cover onto a KLDE block.
I'm going to do some more research but will probably end up having to send this motor back. I am outraged. But trying to remain calm. I'll email VTEC Motors (aka Sunrise Motors) in Canada right now.
*edit- I emailed the seller on eBay and was rather calm and professional. Hopefully we'll get this resolved. This is what I wrote;
"I purchased this motor from you and it is NOT a JDM motor. It is an American Millenia motor. It has a oval intake runers on the heads and the heads are stamped KL-101 and KL-1A1 but has square runners on the intake manifold. The motor also has one, or both, blown head gaskets and the oil in the heads is milky and thin. The spark plugs were rusted and wet and smelled of coolant.
I have taken pictures of all the parts and motor and can forward them to you. I would like to resolve this so please contant me as soon as possible. Thank you. ~Evan Lewis"
The oil seems too runny and probably has coolant in it. Which would explain the nasty spark plugs.
Oval ports on the heads, not square. Even though they are on the intake manifold.
One head is stamped "KL-101" and the other is "KL-1A1"
I'm thinking they swapped a JDM curve neck intake manifold and timing belt cover onto a KLDE block.
I'm going to do some more research but will probably end up having to send this motor back. I am outraged. But trying to remain calm. I'll email VTEC Motors (aka Sunrise Motors) in Canada right now.
*edit- I emailed the seller on eBay and was rather calm and professional. Hopefully we'll get this resolved. This is what I wrote;
"I purchased this motor from you and it is NOT a JDM motor. It is an American Millenia motor. It has a oval intake runers on the heads and the heads are stamped KL-101 and KL-1A1 but has square runners on the intake manifold. The motor also has one, or both, blown head gaskets and the oil in the heads is milky and thin. The spark plugs were rusted and wet and smelled of coolant.
I have taken pictures of all the parts and motor and can forward them to you. I would like to resolve this so please contant me as soon as possible. Thank you. ~Evan Lewis"
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03zoomzoom
Member
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- 2012 Mazda 3 i Touring
that sucks buddy. Good thing you took it apart and did your homework.
PrinceValorum
Member
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- 95 626 FS, 89 Toyota Derux 4x4
I think the Milly motor has square intake ports, but is a regular DE otherwise, apart from the different IM. I think you have a DE with a curve neck ZE IM.
You've got plenty of time to figure it all out, and plenty of knowledgeable people around to help! It will all work out in the end! Plus, this story would be boring if everything went smoothly!
But seriously, those guys should and WILL get back to you about the engine. Call them Monday!
But seriously, those guys should and WILL get back to you about the engine. Call them Monday!
I got a reply from VTEC Motors late last night;
"hi
sorry for your misunderstanding.
its 100% jdm engine we imported from japan directly.
yes its kl-101 .
don't say that its not jdm motors, 500% its jdm.
if the engine has blown gaskets that is not means its not jdm .
we have warranty 30 days from the date we shipped you can read on warranty policy,
if you are not ok with engine send it back during warranty time after that we are not responsible.
thank you for your understanding.
- vtec_motors"
My head might explode.
I was doing some more research last night and this morning. So apparently the Millenia KL (ZE, DE...? I think the Millenia is a hodge-podge of parts from Mazda) has the EGR-less intake manifold with the square runners and oval intake ports on the heads and use the same heads as the A-Spec KLDE. I knew the Millenia uses the same cams as the DE but didn't know they were the same heads. Which might actually be a good thing since the DE heads use the better valve retainers, but I'm not sure if they are the same retainers as the US DE or the same as the JDM ZE.
I found a How-To on porting the IM to the heads as proof.
The problem I'm running into A LOT with the KL motors are a lot of people (myself included) don't know the specs for each motor first hand. It's a lot of reading what this fellow said what that fellow said etc. It's an online game of "Telephone" basically. So more and more research is needed.
Here's my predicament: Do I ship the motor back (which isn't cheap) and get a new one or do I just ask for a partial refund and replace the head gaskets? Since I've already painted the valve covers, throttle body and knife edged and painted the intake maniold they will probably want everything back. And this motor does look very clean inside. Ugh... I don't know.
"hi
sorry for your misunderstanding.
its 100% jdm engine we imported from japan directly.
yes its kl-101 .
don't say that its not jdm motors, 500% its jdm.
if the engine has blown gaskets that is not means its not jdm .
we have warranty 30 days from the date we shipped you can read on warranty policy,
if you are not ok with engine send it back during warranty time after that we are not responsible.
thank you for your understanding.
- vtec_motors"
My head might explode.
I was doing some more research last night and this morning. So apparently the Millenia KL (ZE, DE...? I think the Millenia is a hodge-podge of parts from Mazda) has the EGR-less intake manifold with the square runners and oval intake ports on the heads and use the same heads as the A-Spec KLDE. I knew the Millenia uses the same cams as the DE but didn't know they were the same heads. Which might actually be a good thing since the DE heads use the better valve retainers, but I'm not sure if they are the same retainers as the US DE or the same as the JDM ZE.
I found a How-To on porting the IM to the heads as proof.
The problem I'm running into A LOT with the KL motors are a lot of people (myself included) don't know the specs for each motor first hand. It's a lot of reading what this fellow said what that fellow said etc. It's an online game of "Telephone" basically. So more and more research is needed.
Here's my predicament: Do I ship the motor back (which isn't cheap) and get a new one or do I just ask for a partial refund and replace the head gaskets? Since I've already painted the valve covers, throttle body and knife edged and painted the intake maniold they will probably want everything back. And this motor does look very clean inside. Ugh... I don't know.
PrinceValorum
Member
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- 95 626 FS, 89 Toyota Derux 4x4
You need to do a compression or a leak down test to see if it actually has a blown head gasket or if the oil just got contaminated instead of guessing. I have a comp checker, but the leak down is more thorough.
IIRC the Milly has the square port ZE heads with DE internals. Plus your head stamps are the same as the motor in my buddy's PGT, and he definitely doesn't have a Milly or a ZE in his. This stuff is starting to get pretty aggravating, they all look the same, so similar in the numbers, etc. I can't imagine how you feel.
I dunno what the guys at Sunrise Motors are on, KL101 is not the ZE, it needs to say KL31 101 or KL36 101
Like this picture of the casting number on the front bank
What's the number on the back of your block? Also check the numbers on your cams, since you have the valve covers off. Check this guide again to find them, and use it for proof for Sunrise.
http://www.mx6.com/forums/united-kingdom-ireland/174739-klze-identification-how.html
IIRC the Milly has the square port ZE heads with DE internals. Plus your head stamps are the same as the motor in my buddy's PGT, and he definitely doesn't have a Milly or a ZE in his. This stuff is starting to get pretty aggravating, they all look the same, so similar in the numbers, etc. I can't imagine how you feel.
I dunno what the guys at Sunrise Motors are on, KL101 is not the ZE, it needs to say KL31 101 or KL36 101
Like this picture of the casting number on the front bank
What's the number on the back of your block? Also check the numbers on your cams, since you have the valve covers off. Check this guide again to find them, and use it for proof for Sunrise.
http://www.mx6.com/forums/united-kingdom-ireland/174739-klze-identification-how.html
Evan, If you still have time I think that I would pull the heads and take a good look at piston tops and cylinder walls. If the pan is still off pull a rod and main and give them a good look as well. Just by looking at the oil in the head I really can't tell if there is water in it or not, it might be just crappy oil.
justanothermp5
Banned
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- Rust Bucket
that looks like some really milky oil, ive never seen any oil like that lol
and that blows that the sent you the wrong engine, from their reply it doesnt really sound like they know what there talking about
and that blows that the sent you the wrong engine, from their reply it doesnt really sound like they know what there talking about
Larry and Simon. The oil in the oil pan was darker and thicker but I'm still not sure. Hell, I'm not even sure what freakin motor I have now. The cats at VTEC Motors said I can return the motor but they would just send me another curve neck motor and I need to send ALL the parts back. So what's the point really...
My plan tomorrow is to pull the heads and check the tops of the pistons and see if they are flat tops. That will be the final piece if this is a JDM motor or a UK motor. But as of now, I'm just about to say **** it and ask for a partial refund and keep the motor and check the heads for warping and replace the head gaskets. I'm just disappointed in how this all panned out so far. My optimism is dwindling... heh-heh. Well, regardless, it will still be a good reliable motor when I'm done with it and will still be putting some good power to the wheels.
My plan tomorrow is to pull the heads and check the tops of the pistons and see if they are flat tops. That will be the final piece if this is a JDM motor or a UK motor. But as of now, I'm just about to say **** it and ask for a partial refund and keep the motor and check the heads for warping and replace the head gaskets. I'm just disappointed in how this all panned out so far. My optimism is dwindling... heh-heh. Well, regardless, it will still be a good reliable motor when I'm done with it and will still be putting some good power to the wheels.
PrinceValorum
Member
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- 95 626 FS, 89 Toyota Derux 4x4
Even if you have a mostly DE motor, aside from the IM, I guess, I wonder if you'd get the majority of the ZE power from a ZE ecu, which you already have. Just a thought. ZE motors running DE ecu's get beaten by fast bolted DE's, I'm sure you've seen the vids.
I dunno what to tell you at this point, but try to stay positive!
I dunno what to tell you at this point, but try to stay positive!
Perro del Sol
Member
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- 2003 MSP, Spicy Orange, 2004 Mazda 6 Hatch, 2004 Mazda 6 Wagon
I would PM tom Machiavelli on the boards, tom is an attorney he could help you on what you can do as far as getting all your ducks in a row per se. I will let him know yout situation, as we'll be having dinner with him tonight.
Best of luck sorting this out.
I will tell you what you have..
You have a JDM Millenia (Xedos I think) motor or a non '95 USDM millenia motor with JDM timing covers (not likely).
Millenia motors have DE (all are oval port) heads unless they are from a '95 millenia. All ZE heads are rectangular port. Millenia IM are rectangular port, regardless of year. All millenia motors have KL01 cams.
Best of luck getting this sorted out.
I will tell you what you have..
You have a JDM Millenia (Xedos I think) motor or a non '95 USDM millenia motor with JDM timing covers (not likely).
Millenia motors have DE (all are oval port) heads unless they are from a '95 millenia. All ZE heads are rectangular port. Millenia IM are rectangular port, regardless of year. All millenia motors have KL01 cams.
Best of luck getting this sorted out.
Thanks for the verification, JK. I figured I have a Millenia motor, just wasn't sure if it was JDM or UK/Europe. So does my motor have the flat top pistons and 9.5:1 compression? All these KL's are getting confusing. So is there such thing as a "curve neck KLZE"? I bought a KL36 ECU and JE50 vaf, would I still be able to use those with the Millenia motor? If not, I have the KLK1 ECU that came with the motor but need to research which vaf it wants to be paired with. I was just basing most of my research off of the KLZE straight neck/curve neck but it seems like this little guy is a little different than those. Thanks again, mate.
You can use the kl31 and JE50.
There was not a 9.5:1 Millenia motor. The only kl that was 9.5:1 was the klg4 which was ONLY in the 98-2002 626 V6. The millenia never got the klg4, as it used SLAs, coilpack, etc..so you either have a 9.2 or 10:1 bottom end. My guess, because of the heads/cams is that you got a 9.2:1 bottom end.
There was not a 9.5:1 Millenia motor. The only kl that was 9.5:1 was the klg4 which was ONLY in the 98-2002 626 V6. The millenia never got the klg4, as it used SLAs, coilpack, etc..so you either have a 9.2 or 10:1 bottom end. My guess, because of the heads/cams is that you got a 9.2:1 bottom end.
Do you mean the KL36 ECU or do I need to source a KL31 ECU? I thought they were pretty much the same.
And I guess there's no way of knowing what pistons I have without pulling the heads, eh? To be honest, I'm intimidated about taking out the cams and removing the heads. I'm not a newb at working on cars but I've never done any internal work. And my friend stopped by and looked at the motor and he said the heads look okay and it might now be a blown head gasket. Maybe Wes can stop by and give his opinion too.
And I guess there's no way of knowing what pistons I have without pulling the heads, eh? To be honest, I'm intimidated about taking out the cams and removing the heads. I'm not a newb at working on cars but I've never done any internal work. And my friend stopped by and looked at the motor and he said the heads look okay and it might now be a blown head gasket. Maybe Wes can stop by and give his opinion too.
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