Keeping it Clean and Sparkling
- Thread starter CXRabbit
- Start date
i've seen 100% cotton materials scratch before my eyes...especially on darker colors...it's not rocket science, main thing is to use clean/new materials. people use the same rags over and over thinking it's good for some reason...this is the mistake most make... i've had 2 black cars, 2 white, 1 gold and now the gray CX. none had scratches over the years, none i have done for others either.
You're ignoring what I said about newer cars. Really don't care about your pre-2003 ones. It does matter. Paint has changed.
Honestly, this woman stands nothing to lose by stating what she's stating about microfiber (quite the contrary actually), and she's gotten the companies themselves to admit to the fact it scratches your paint. I'm sure with the care you and I want to give our cars it's not going to be a noticeable difference for quite a few years. I just know it makes sense that I don't want to rub plastic on my car.
Another tip - any rags you DO reuse (after washing), make sure you do not wash them with powder detergent. Powder doesn't always rinse and dissolve as it should and the grains CAN scratch your paint.
Honestly, this woman stands nothing to lose by stating what she's stating about microfiber (quite the contrary actually), and she's gotten the companies themselves to admit to the fact it scratches your paint. I'm sure with the care you and I want to give our cars it's not going to be a noticeable difference for quite a few years. I just know it makes sense that I don't want to rub plastic on my car.
Another tip - any rags you DO reuse (after washing), make sure you do not wash them with powder detergent. Powder doesn't always rinse and dissolve as it should and the grains CAN scratch your paint.
I wrote back to Mary and she gave me permission to post this for anyone interested:
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If anyone has a fax machine I can fax them the back of a microfiber box that first came out stating specifically that continued use can scratch the finish. They stopped with the warnings because it was killing sales. Car detailers can get by with using microfiber because they use it once on a car and they are done. This is not a once or twice usage problem. It's continued use over time. Take a microfiber cloth dampen it with a little water and go work on a smudge on a painted wall. It will take a couple of time but the one spot will be paint free. It will rub the paint off the surface and they can prove to themselves that I know what I'm talking about. Be sure to do this to an inconspicuous spot
as they don't want a bare spot in the middle of a wall.
It does not matter how little polyester a cloth has in it. If there is even 20% polyester, it's going to scratch the surface with time. It does not matter how it's made or how soft. If it has polyester it will scratch period. I have talked with the manufacturers of these products at a convention called International Sanitary Supply Association. It is THE largest convention for the janitorial supply (or what is now called Jan San) industry in the world. I already knew the damage microfiber would cause but I wanted to hear it from the manufacturers. I talked with 7 of the companies at two different conventions and all 7 of them finally admitted this would happen. These were the actual manufacturers from Taiwan and China.
Also remember that most car paints are NOT clear coat so whoever said that is mistaken. Most, and probably not all, are what is called gelcoat. With gelcoats, the clear coat is mixed in with the paint and then applied. Some of the very very expensive cars are clear coated but few. There are boats and RVs that have gelcoat and not clear coat. With clear coat finishes the paint is applied first and then the clear coat put on after that. Gel coats the clear coat is in the paint so it's a one step application and not two. I know this because I have met with two of the largest paint manufacturing companies in the U.S. and they have told me about the differences and the change in the paints. They also verified for me about how quickly a vehicle will oxidize with the paints after 2003. The new paints will oxidize within 3 to 4 months versus 18 to 24 months with the old lead based paints.
With clear coat finishes the stamina of the clear coat depends on the number of coats applied. On the cars that do have it you are lucky to have one application. High end motorhomes will have maybe 2 or 3 the expensive Prevost will have 4 or 5 possibly more. Gelcoat finishes generally are a one time application so they oxidize quickly.
In one of the statements it was said that the paint was coming off. Well the paint is coming off the car because it's oxidizing. That means they have either been using microfiber to clean it and it is already removing the gelcoat. Or they have used silicone, which is what is used in products where you add a capfull to a bucket of water and it will wax as well. The problem with silicone products is once a vehicle does start oxidizing you have problems. You cannot completely remove silicone. I deal with all kinds of business owners in the RV industry. Quite a few of them have car repair shops and paint shops. They all have told me that they will not repaint a car etc if the owner has used silicone. Nothing sticks to silicone if you have ever tried to paint caulking around your windows. Since it won't completely come off, you get an uneven paint job and that will peel off in very short time.
Now they may also be using a wax with a low grade petroleum distillate. If that happens, it also causes oxidation and that will become evident because the paint is coming off on the rag. You better use an oxidation remover and fast or you will have no paint left in short time. My Advantage does contain agents that will remove oxidation if it has just begun or started a year or so ago.
The only problem with distillates is even if the bottle does tell you it contains distillates you don't know if it's a high or low grade until you start to oxidize. Then you know you have a low grade and you better switch products or you won't have any paint left. Also if you are only using a wax once or twice a year and paint is coming off, it means you need to wax a bit more often to remove the oxidation and get a sealant built back up then back that off to 3 times a year.
I cannot tell you the horror stories I've heard about Armour All. One man during a seminar told me it ruined the original convertible top on his old show car. I forget the model right now, it's been awhile. Cracking in the dash board does not surprise me. Yes my Leather/Vinyl Care is quite good. It is 100% natural and does not contain any chemicals at all. It will not leave your seat slick and it cleans as well as conditions so you have a one step process and not two. The nice thing is you can dilute it 5 parts water to 1 part Leather Care and use it inbetween deep conditioning to clean your seats, dash etc. That way you still get the benefits of the conditioning yet you are only cleaning.
Now for wheels on cars. Look to see if your wheels are shiny. If they are don 't use a metal polish on them. Use soap and water only and don't be using anything stronger than baby shampoo to wash your car. It's all you need. But those wheels are sealed and if you use a metal polish on them it will take the sealant off and then they are very difficult to clean and usually have to be replaced. Aluminum wheels are good for the polishes. Two of them are excellent - Met All and Flitz. I like the Met All the best but that is only after testing 9 or 10 of the products. I have not tested all of them. I like to give my seminar attendees good products to use so when I go to the International Trade conventions I pick up samples and test them.
I also have an excellent window cleaner called Benya but you can also remove those streaks on windows by mixing 50/50 water and rubbing alcohol, the kind found in the grocery store and wipe over the window. It will remove all that as long as you have a clean towel.
The next thing is don't wash the towels you use in powdered detergents. It will also scratch your car. Some, not all, but some powdered detergents are made from sawdust - yes sawdust. I had a manager of one of the manufacturers tell me that. It is blown into a room and then treated to turn white with a bit of detergent added. Well sawdust will also scratch.
Amy you have my permission to use this on the forum.
Mary Findley
www.goclean.com
- - - - -
- - - - -
If anyone has a fax machine I can fax them the back of a microfiber box that first came out stating specifically that continued use can scratch the finish. They stopped with the warnings because it was killing sales. Car detailers can get by with using microfiber because they use it once on a car and they are done. This is not a once or twice usage problem. It's continued use over time. Take a microfiber cloth dampen it with a little water and go work on a smudge on a painted wall. It will take a couple of time but the one spot will be paint free. It will rub the paint off the surface and they can prove to themselves that I know what I'm talking about. Be sure to do this to an inconspicuous spot
as they don't want a bare spot in the middle of a wall. It does not matter how little polyester a cloth has in it. If there is even 20% polyester, it's going to scratch the surface with time. It does not matter how it's made or how soft. If it has polyester it will scratch period. I have talked with the manufacturers of these products at a convention called International Sanitary Supply Association. It is THE largest convention for the janitorial supply (or what is now called Jan San) industry in the world. I already knew the damage microfiber would cause but I wanted to hear it from the manufacturers. I talked with 7 of the companies at two different conventions and all 7 of them finally admitted this would happen. These were the actual manufacturers from Taiwan and China.
Also remember that most car paints are NOT clear coat so whoever said that is mistaken. Most, and probably not all, are what is called gelcoat. With gelcoats, the clear coat is mixed in with the paint and then applied. Some of the very very expensive cars are clear coated but few. There are boats and RVs that have gelcoat and not clear coat. With clear coat finishes the paint is applied first and then the clear coat put on after that. Gel coats the clear coat is in the paint so it's a one step application and not two. I know this because I have met with two of the largest paint manufacturing companies in the U.S. and they have told me about the differences and the change in the paints. They also verified for me about how quickly a vehicle will oxidize with the paints after 2003. The new paints will oxidize within 3 to 4 months versus 18 to 24 months with the old lead based paints.
With clear coat finishes the stamina of the clear coat depends on the number of coats applied. On the cars that do have it you are lucky to have one application. High end motorhomes will have maybe 2 or 3 the expensive Prevost will have 4 or 5 possibly more. Gelcoat finishes generally are a one time application so they oxidize quickly.
In one of the statements it was said that the paint was coming off. Well the paint is coming off the car because it's oxidizing. That means they have either been using microfiber to clean it and it is already removing the gelcoat. Or they have used silicone, which is what is used in products where you add a capfull to a bucket of water and it will wax as well. The problem with silicone products is once a vehicle does start oxidizing you have problems. You cannot completely remove silicone. I deal with all kinds of business owners in the RV industry. Quite a few of them have car repair shops and paint shops. They all have told me that they will not repaint a car etc if the owner has used silicone. Nothing sticks to silicone if you have ever tried to paint caulking around your windows. Since it won't completely come off, you get an uneven paint job and that will peel off in very short time.
Now they may also be using a wax with a low grade petroleum distillate. If that happens, it also causes oxidation and that will become evident because the paint is coming off on the rag. You better use an oxidation remover and fast or you will have no paint left in short time. My Advantage does contain agents that will remove oxidation if it has just begun or started a year or so ago.
The only problem with distillates is even if the bottle does tell you it contains distillates you don't know if it's a high or low grade until you start to oxidize. Then you know you have a low grade and you better switch products or you won't have any paint left. Also if you are only using a wax once or twice a year and paint is coming off, it means you need to wax a bit more often to remove the oxidation and get a sealant built back up then back that off to 3 times a year.
I cannot tell you the horror stories I've heard about Armour All. One man during a seminar told me it ruined the original convertible top on his old show car. I forget the model right now, it's been awhile. Cracking in the dash board does not surprise me. Yes my Leather/Vinyl Care is quite good. It is 100% natural and does not contain any chemicals at all. It will not leave your seat slick and it cleans as well as conditions so you have a one step process and not two. The nice thing is you can dilute it 5 parts water to 1 part Leather Care and use it inbetween deep conditioning to clean your seats, dash etc. That way you still get the benefits of the conditioning yet you are only cleaning.
Now for wheels on cars. Look to see if your wheels are shiny. If they are don 't use a metal polish on them. Use soap and water only and don't be using anything stronger than baby shampoo to wash your car. It's all you need. But those wheels are sealed and if you use a metal polish on them it will take the sealant off and then they are very difficult to clean and usually have to be replaced. Aluminum wheels are good for the polishes. Two of them are excellent - Met All and Flitz. I like the Met All the best but that is only after testing 9 or 10 of the products. I have not tested all of them. I like to give my seminar attendees good products to use so when I go to the International Trade conventions I pick up samples and test them.
I also have an excellent window cleaner called Benya but you can also remove those streaks on windows by mixing 50/50 water and rubbing alcohol, the kind found in the grocery store and wipe over the window. It will remove all that as long as you have a clean towel.
The next thing is don't wash the towels you use in powdered detergents. It will also scratch your car. Some, not all, but some powdered detergents are made from sawdust - yes sawdust. I had a manager of one of the manufacturers tell me that. It is blown into a room and then treated to turn white with a bit of detergent added. Well sawdust will also scratch.
Amy you have my permission to use this on the forum.
Mary Findley
www.goclean.com
- - - - -
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CXRabbit said:
That statement right there makes me question her knowledge. E-coat paints have won various auto tech awards, and there's no way car companies would use paint that oxidizes within 3-4 months. I mean, think about it: Most new cars sit on the dealership lot for 3+ months. That's like Frito Lay selling chips that go stale within 3 weeks of production. It makes no sense. Most people don't wax/polish their car like they should, and car companies realize this. For them to sell cars that will look like crap within a year with no maintenance isn't good advertising. I mean, are you really gonna be inclined to buy a Maxima if all of the 2005 ones you see on the road look like crap? No.
Anyway, back on topic, microfiber vs. cotton depends on what your'e doing. There's no universal "right" answer. Most wax/polish companies suggest you use the best cotton towel you can find (ie, the swanky towels at Bed Bath & Beyond). Most car wash companies suggest you use microfiber. Gee, what could be the reason? Cotton polishes better, but microfiber absorbs/dries better. It is as simple as that. Unless you don't know what you're doing, neither will scratch your car.
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LOL, ever look at the expiration of chips? They go bad quicker than you think 
I took what she said to mean that oxidation can BEGIN as quickly as 3 to 4 months. Oxidation occurs over time, and is not noticeable for quite a while. I mean my mother went without washing her car for an entire year, but it's not like it turned into a rolling ball of paintless rust. When it was washed though, you could clearly see the toll her neglect took on the paint.
Plain old water will damage your car in a short period of time and I've seen it happen, so I do not at all find it unbelievable that without care oxidation will begin within 3-4 months.
I took what she said to mean that oxidation can BEGIN as quickly as 3 to 4 months. Oxidation occurs over time, and is not noticeable for quite a while. I mean my mother went without washing her car for an entire year, but it's not like it turned into a rolling ball of paintless rust. When it was washed though, you could clearly see the toll her neglect took on the paint.
Plain old water will damage your car in a short period of time and I've seen it happen, so I do not at all find it unbelievable that without care oxidation will begin within 3-4 months.
This is an interesting debate, I actually use microfiber and cotton t-shirts and I am not sure which one is better, My car came with some swirls on it and it doesn't seem to be getting worse. I think the key is for the cloth to be clean and to not press hard, when dusting or polishing. My microfiber cloths are 80/20 and work excellent on windows. I would really like to know what is best for my car because I hate swirls marks and I have a black car.
Well Dread, there's s difference of opinion here. The company I bought my product from swears that microfiber is very bad for your paint (on cars newer than 2003), and that 100% cotton diapers are much better. She's willing to fax anyone who wants to see the warnings that used to be on microfiber packaging.
I'm personally going to stick with microfiber for my windows, but 100% cotton diaper rags for the body of my car.
I'm personally going to stick with microfiber for my windows, but 100% cotton diaper rags for the body of my car.
CXRabbit said:
I don't think anything I say will change your mind, but your "expert" just doesn't make sense.
"Rub a wall?" C'mon! Anyone who's tried to clean fingerprints off a wall knows that anything you rub interior latex with will remove paint! I don't care if you use pure silk, paint will come off. And wall paint and automotive finishes may both be water-based, but so are Jim Beam and Diet Coke, but they they have very different properties!
Granted: auto paints post-2003 are softer, ok? But the plastic rear window in my Miata is softer than any paint, and I've been using quality microfiber to clean and polish it for years, and it's a clear as it was when I bought it, when the car had six miles on the odo.
The diapers I bought have hems on them, stitched with clear, plastic thread. The tags say, "100% cotton." They lie. I've don't have enough time or money to sue Wal-Mart.
Final comment: quality microfiber is safe to use on any auto finish, in accordance with my experience. I'm not selling anything, and have no stake one way or the other.
'Nuff said. I'm done.
Autopia.org
I don't mean this to be rude, but there is so much BAD information on how to care for your car on here I don't even know where to start. Go to Autopia, read up, and dispel some of these myths that are flying around. Using diapers and stuff like that on your paint with what is available today is like reading by candlelight when there is a lamp right next to you. Car care products today are great, but there continue to be bad methods out there that just won't die.
I don't mean this to be rude, but there is so much BAD information on how to care for your car on here I don't even know where to start. Go to Autopia, read up, and dispel some of these myths that are flying around. Using diapers and stuff like that on your paint with what is available today is like reading by candlelight when there is a lamp right next to you. Car care products today are great, but there continue to be bad methods out there that just won't die.
Well, anyone who doesn't agree why not at least write to her and ask her to fax you the manufacturers box that SAYS not to use it on your painted vehicle.
Azcat, I don't know what cotton diapers you bought but the ones I have do NOT have hems with plastic threading. They have no hems at all, no stitching anywhere. Maybe the problem is you're buying them at Walmart. I wouldn't use anything with plastic stitching in it on my car or on a baby! LOL
Tasty... I don't doubt it at all - and honestly, you can find one site that says one thing and another that says something completely the opposite. I've read from guys who swear by 100% cotton diapers. I've read from others who pray to the microfiber god. All I know is that if the microfiber manufacturers themselves admit their product will scratch your paint, why should I doubt it.
Azcat, I don't know what cotton diapers you bought but the ones I have do NOT have hems with plastic threading. They have no hems at all, no stitching anywhere. Maybe the problem is you're buying them at Walmart. I wouldn't use anything with plastic stitching in it on my car or on a baby! LOL
Tasty... I don't doubt it at all - and honestly, you can find one site that says one thing and another that says something completely the opposite. I've read from guys who swear by 100% cotton diapers. I've read from others who pray to the microfiber god. All I know is that if the microfiber manufacturers themselves admit their product will scratch your paint, why should I doubt it.
meanstreak
Member
Can I use the Advantage no matter how dirty it is. I'm a little concerned that it might rub the dirt into the paint.CXRabbit said:Being in a colder winter climate I was on the search for a solution to keeping the car clean without having to always wash it. I found an amazing product that works exactly as advertised and wow, is it easy to do. The car wash is fine once in a while but it can get expensive, and they don't apply any kind of protectant or wax (without paying a small fortune).
It's called Mary Moppins Advantage...
"Finally, you can put a show room shine on any vehicle without paying the cost of show room polishes. Advantage, made exclusively for the Mary Moppins Company, washes and protects your vehicle in one quick step."
I used it on my Crystal Pearl White CX-7 today and it came out amazing. Not only is it nice and clean, but it looks like it's been polished AND it leaves a nice slick surface so you know it's going to stay cleaner longer.
I'm not usually one to praise a product so strongly, but anyone who wants to keep their car in good shape, protect their paint, and have it be fairly EASY, I'd recommend this one without a doubt. It's also silicone- and petroleum distillate-free which is apparently important with post 2003/4 cars.
I use terry-cloth towels or 100% cotton baby diapers to clean and buff. DO NOT use microfiber... you'll end up with swirl marks.
For the glass I use Invisible Glass -- it virtually streak-free (god, I hate streaks on my windows and windex SUCKS). Microfiber cloth is fine for this... and lint free!
For the leather, so far I've used Armor All Leather Wipes -- I'm open to suggestions in this area. I use the wipe and then rub out excess and rub in with cotton baby diaper.
For the interior I simply use Armor All Cleaning Wipes and a cotton baby diaper to wipe off excess.
I'll be buying a box of those LCD cleaner pads to keep in the car. In the meantime I grabbed some from work. The finger prints are enough to drive a person like me crazy
Anyone else have suggestions to offer?
(psst. Really... buy the Advantage stuff... it's amazing)
meanstreak
Member
CXRabbit said:
Does this apply to all microfiber cloths?? This is a bit off topic but microfiber cloths are used very commonly by photographers to clean lenses. The optic coatings on lenses are much more delicate than autopaint. I'm not doubting anyone, but it seems kind of strange that they are acceptable for photgraphy and not autos.
Microfiber is safe for glass. I understand what you're saying about the lens coatings (I'm a serious hobby photographer myself) and I can't say I know the definitive answer on that... but I know when it comes to auto cleaning microfiber is GREAT for anything not painted (on cars post 2003/2004 - paint formulas have changed). I'm certainly not the expert on microfiber and I know there are people who disagree... but what I've read about it makes sense, so I stick with 100% cotton - NOTHING with polyester in it.
so i picked up a pack of these microfiber towels a few weeks ago, we got a heat wave for a bout 2 days here in RI, one weekend in Jan it hit almost 70.
I have never seen my car look as good as it did, that day. I hand wash my cars, since ive been i dont even kno how old, always took pride in doing the wash myself.
After using those towels, it was like a halo got wrapped around my ride. Say what u want about scratching paint, if it shows up 4 yrs later, well, whatever ill prob be in the new cx7 anyways lol. Ive never seen the finish on a car look that good, that shiny, no streaks, and none of the lose fibers from cotton towels stuck all over the car.
UNtil i see otherwise, microfiber all the way. amen.
I have never seen my car look as good as it did, that day. I hand wash my cars, since ive been i dont even kno how old, always took pride in doing the wash myself.
After using those towels, it was like a halo got wrapped around my ride. Say what u want about scratching paint, if it shows up 4 yrs later, well, whatever ill prob be in the new cx7 anyways lol. Ive never seen the finish on a car look that good, that shiny, no streaks, and none of the lose fibers from cotton towels stuck all over the car.
UNtil i see otherwise, microfiber all the way. amen.
And, cotton towels - on my dark car, r prob the absolute WORST thing to dry it with, the swirls, the fiber that sheds, and even straight outta the dryer sometimes i feel like i scratching the paint. To be honest, i didnt even kno about microfiber till i went to autozone to get some car wash stuff. I will never go back. I felt like i was spreading butter on my car with the mircro towels when i was drying it.
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