Interest? Carbon Fiber Plumbing and CAI

[Rainman]

In the process of preparing my MSP for our local Import Night this coming weekend. I am having carbon fiber hardpipes and a carbon fiber CAI custom-built. Wehn I was talking with the CF guys they wondered whether there might be any interest in these items for the general MSP public. They figured that since they had to make the molds for my car, they might as well keep them and prepare units for sale if there was a demand.

They are not sure about the prices yet, but they plan to be as good, or even better, than the prices for similar products created from mandrel-bent SS. They also plan to offer the hardpipes and CAI in an assortment of colours to match whatever paint scheme you have. I will post pics of my plumbing once it has been installed this week. I also hope to take the car to the dyno to see what gains (if any) I've gotten with the carbon fiber plumbing, CAI, and my custom turbo-back 3" exhaust (being installed today!!!!!!!).

Damn, I miss my MSP...LOL! Anyway, if anyone is interested just let me know so that I can tell these guys what kind of response they might get.

 

[kNOWfREED0m]

pics will determine

 

[GAspeedProtege]

I'd be interested, but would the CF heat soak more than SS?

 

[EYEben53RV3D]

heat soak or melt that close to the turbo.

 

[Rainman]

Aluminum extension for heat soak?

I am going to speak to the guys tonight and check out the install. They were worried about the heat as well. They planned to bond an aluminum extension (6-8" where the heat shield is currently located) to the CF pipe to deal with the heat issue. They expected that this would deal with heat soak as well. They stated that it would at least be better than the stock setup with respect to both flow and heat soak.

heat soak or melt that close to the turbo.

 

[azian6er]

i mean the dg cf engine cover experiences a lot of heat. i dont see how much more the pipes could see.

-B

 

[Rainman]

Just say no to heat soak!

Yep, and remember that the stock pipes are made of plastic. The carbon fibre is easily better able to deal with heat soak than are the stock piping. Also, the stock piping has a heat shield over what looks to be metal piping closest to the turbo. I went to see the mock up tonight and it all looks pretty sweet. The CAI looks pretty much like the Injen with the MAF in the same spot. The CF guys wanted to put it lower down so that it would be hidden, but the length of the MAF wiring harness wouldn't allow it. I can hardly wait to take it out for a rip once everything is installed. It already sounds SICK with the custom 3" exhaust (over the axle, crush bends--at 3" don't think that the crush bends will be any worse than mandrel--and a single cat so it should pass emissions testing) and the Magnaflow muffler. Now if only my Joe P MBC/FCD/FPR would get here.....!!!!!!!!

i mean the dg cf engine cover experiences a lot of heat. i dont see how much more the pipes could see.

-B

 

[BradC]

CF should heat soak less the metal. CF valve covers are normally decently cool to the touch in my experience.

 

[mooS mooS]

(naughty) How about a ..... nm.. found some....(naughty)

 

[Riles]

I hope these work out! These would make the best of both worlds- hard pipes like the metal ones, but more insulation from engine bay heat like the plastic pipes.

I decided that if my plastic pipes blew, I was going to make fiberglass pipes... but it looks like now I won't have to! (And now they actually have a chance at looking good, lol)

 

[jred321]

sounds expensive

 

[evolv]

I have been going hummmm.. new hard pipes and cai, but when and what to buy.. this sounds interesting so when the numbers come back (price) etc.. I'll consider it.

I'd also like to see dyno results on this product (factory to this) no change from factory exhaust (if possible) for the test results.

 

[kazson]

sounds expensive

(mswerd)

 

[Riles]

sounds expensive

I'm not so sure, because carbon fiber is far easier to form than metal hardpipes. There isnt any bending or anything... there is a mold, and then they lay it. There are carbon fiber hoods for 300-400 bucks (maybe not for our car, but they are out there), and pipes would require far less material than a hood.

But, then again, there is always the "cool factor" that you have to pay extra for, so who knows.....

 

[Rainman]

Here is the update. Since they were trying to do things quick for the show last Saturday, they tried to ghetto-ize the mold. Normally, for CF they would take a real part, make an impression of that part (negative) and then cast the CF replica part from the mold. We didn't have time to acquire a real CAI or hard pipes from which to do this so they used PVC piping instead to cast a positive mold (i.e. CF cast on the outside and vacuumed-formed in, rather than CF cast on the inside and vacuum-formed out). This would have been OK had they heated the PVC pipe and bent it. But because of time constraints, the CF guys just glued PVC bends together to straights to make the mold, without filing down the bends. For anyone who has worked with PVC pipe, they know that the connectors are a larger diameter than the pipe as a result of the female coupling flange. The result? Kick-ass CF piping with cheese-ass looking bends. Essentially, it looked exactly like what they had done. That is, that they had molded the piping from a PVC model and NOT from real piping. So, the pipes did NOT go on the car for the show.

Needless to say, I and my performance shop were not at all happy. I probably would have come away with 2nd in the Protege class with the piping on. However, now that the show is over and there is not such a time constraint they are going to make the molds properly this time so that the piping and the CAI look the way that they are supposed to.

I will post pictures of the first version in the next day or so and the reworked versions once they are done. Now with an inner diameter of 2.5", the original version would have been functional, but it just looked like ass and I wouldn't want to open my hood to anyone with it looking that cheesy.

 

[evolv]

Just curious, what style (look) will the CF CAI most resemble? Injen, AEM etc....

Also, did they indicate a cost for this product?

 

[Leadfoot]

^^^ditto

 

[Rainman]

Look and cost

The look will most closely resemble INJEN. Because they are custom they can look like whatever I want them to look like, but we want them to have an appearance that is similar to that which is already available elsewhere. However, we are determined to make them as efficient as possible so we plan to have as few bends as possible and make the paths as direct as possible given the space constraints of the MSP engine bay.

One of the ideas that the CF guys had for the CAI was to put the MAF very low on the descending side of the plumbing (i.e on the piping leading from MAF to the air intake. With the current CAI the MAF is very prominent with its position right at the tapex of the CAI plumbing before descending down to it entry point into the engine block. It is very noticeable positioned like this. However, if they were to move it low down in the assembly (i.e. further away from the filter, closer to the engine) it would be positioned very low on the CAI assembly and effectively be hidden in the lower parts of the engine bay. The result would be a much cleaner look to the CAI itself. This might make a difference for those who show their cars. A custom assembly with a very clean look would draw attention to the CAI itself and not to the MAF hardware...what do you think? The limitation so far has been the wiring harness for the MAF. Right now they are not interested in rewiring everything so they are just going to move it as far as the current harness will allow. Once they got everything down then they might play with the harness some.

As for the cost, the biggest part of the cost is making the molds. They have to make a negative mold which means that they need to have an actual part from which to make a mold, or they need to construct their own. For the time being, we are going with the construct your own method. As I said before, they tried to ghetto-ize it because we were in a rush for the show. However, THAT didn't work out, so now we are going to do it right. We are going to weld up piping exactly the way it will appear in the finished model and then use THAT for the mold. The cost of making this molding is around $800CAN when all is said and done. This is not the cost to us however. These guys are willing to eat the price of all the prep work if they know that they can sell some kits elsewhere. They plan to have their price for the complete kit (hardpipes, CAI, couplings, hardware) be similar to or slightly lower than the price for any other comparable SS kit. The projected price for the complete kit is expected to be around $400-500CAN. Just for comparison, the INJEN RD6066 CAI is $485 at my local speed shop. Online, after exchange and duty etc., it is around $425, so an entire kit for custom CAI, hardpipes, couplings and hardware for under $500 is an absolute steal. That would probably translate to around $325USD.

Just curious, what style (look) will the CF CAI most resemble? Injen, AEM etc....

Also, did they indicate a cost for this product?

 

[03MSP]

Damn that is a great price...good luck with that; I think a lot of people should jump on this once they see the pics.

 

[kazson]

cool hard pipes and Injen style carbon fiber intake sounds good and the price sounds perfect. BUT it all depends on how it looks hehbut if we buy this kit does it pretty much limit our BOV options? since you cant just weld a flange on carbon fiber (silly)